quote:

Originally posted by paul hart:

Buying cardboard shouldnt be this hard.

Unfortunatly somebody one day said this piece of cardboard has the same value as this $100 bill, from that moment it was all doomed.

This is depressing...(stating the obvious here)

As a collector who is shopping with a dealer that has to go through a third party to get any product, I have to ask for any product as soon as it's announced. I can't afford to wait until the main distributors decide on an ordering date. My dealer can't afford to order on spec hoping that he can sell X amount that hasn't been pre-ordered.
The bottom line is the distributors are holding dealers to ransom with their "you can only have this if you take that" policy. Basing an allocation on what you had before and then vastly reducing your request helps no-one apart from dealers that have seemingly bottomless wallets.
The only way I can see this being rectified is by having a made to order policy and maybe making 10% over that for the non-order collectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham:
The only way I can see this being rectified is by having a made to order policy and maybe making 10% over that for the non-order collectors.

Given the popularity of WD and BBT they would have to increase the print run to get anywhere near enough to fill even cut down orders anyway and Crypto isn't doing it so far. Remember that a card manufacturer's first goal is to sell out the product. So as long as the authorized distributors are buying the full line of products, as they must to stay authorized, Crypto is happy.

Dealers and collectors can B&M all they want about not getting the hot products, it only hurts Crypto when they are stuck with inventory.

Or more likely when the distributors get stuck with inventory on all those not-so-hot products that they also have to try to move and start to lose money on the deal. Since this distribution system is fairly new and both WD and BBT have new releases coming out, that probably won't happen for awhile, but it will happen over time in MHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham:
The bottom line is the distributors are holding dealers to ransom with their "you can only have this if you take that" policy. Basing an allocation on what you had before and then vastly reducing your request helps no-one apart from dealers that have seemingly bottomless wallets.

Hey Graham-That is absolutely dead on and I always like your incite on things.. The only thing I'd like to add is it doesn't matter if you buy a certain amount of one product it doesn't guarantee you squat on the product you really want. I do feel like I'm being Extorted to buy products that I really don't want in "Hopes" of getting the ones I want. Trust me my friend my wallet has cobwebs in it from buying the releases that I really don't want and am sitting on because nobody wants them and may wallet is not bottomless.. I think it's the distributors and Cryptozoic that has those deep wallets. I truly am discussed and sad at the same time to see what is happening to our hobby. If they would increase production and go back to having some competition with having all of their dealers and distributors on an equal playing field like before that would help quite a lot. How many collectors and dealers are going to just enough is enough. In my eyes this move is going to hurt Cryptozoic badly because they won't always have the hot product with all the big name premium cards. When collectors see that more and more of the top stars won't sign like "Penny" from BBT or they only get back 5 autographs and those will be impossible to find.. Bet they won't be as allocated then. Cutting out the Crypto Dealers was a big mistake. They were the advertisers, sellers and promoters for Cryptozoic Products.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TWS,

I totally agree with TWS here.
Something nobody spoke about : Cryptozoic is not posting anything in this thread like they used to do for others threads.
Is it guilt, shame, fear...
Anyway, it is not a good idea.

OK everyone, so reading these posts you are all annoyed, and only getting 2% of your orders. So where is the other 98% going? Has anyone asked that? Is the network of sports card dealers the distributors are selling to doing a better job of getting the product out to the public? Are they being rewarded with 'your' product for supporting the sport/non sport hobby overall?
Maybe Harris could interview CZE and their distributors, as this is an important and interesting move for the hobby..

quote:

Originally posted by cardcollectors uk:
OK everyone, so reading these posts you are all annoyed, and only getting 2% of your orders. So where is the other 98% going? Has anyone asked that? Is the network of sports card dealers the distributors are selling to doing a better job of getting the product out to the public? Are they being rewarded with 'your' product for supporting the sport/non sport hobby overall?
Maybe Harris could interview CZE and their distributors, as this is an important and interesting move for the hobby..

Now we are not even getting the 2% that we were allocated since we started this tread. We have no product.. Cryptozoic has always allocated the more popular releases. Getting Cryptozoic and their distributors interviewed would only give you a slanted one side rehearsed interview. Interview the customers who are having to pay $165 a box for the popular releases and the dealers who now are not the privileged dealers who have to spend thousands of dollars on other releases they don't want to be able to get a very small amount of the more popular releases. With the original Crypto Dealers being fired the competition is eliminated so the very few Preferred Dealers/Distributors can do what they want and that hurts everyone including the collectors. Kind of like gas rationing where a few got rich off the little guy. Yeah I am annoyed!!

Here's my 2 cents. I was small time direct purchaser from Cryptozoic.
Diamond Distributors is basically a monopoly selling comics to every comic book shop and comic outlet in the US. For those unaware of this, they send out order forms to stores couple months ahead of time for distribution to customers to place orders. In past, when product was allocated, Diamond was allocated in same pot with the other direct purchasers from Crypto at a case level. Many direct buyers would get only 1 case when allocations kicked in. Diamond would then allocate to the comic stores at box level. With Diamond now controlling most (all?) distribution in US, all the previous direct buyers are now apparently being allocated in same pot with every comic book store in US. If a large comic store/chain buying hundreds of thousands of dollars of comics a year, if not millions, wants 40 cases of cards, think they'll get them? People have been talking about getting allocations based upon buying less desirable products, but I don't see Diamond taking that amount of effort in breaking down orders from the new card-only people versus the existing comic store base. Cryptozoic probably did that when they allocated, but Diamond has such a huge customer base and high turnover in staff, that I find it hard to believe they'd institute a complex allocation system just for cards and for different types of customers.
After hearing about issues contacting Diamond over past 20 years by frequenting many comic book stores, I didn't want to be bothered with trying to get an account with them and now get from someone who gets from somewhere. I pay more for a case (if available), but seems worth not having the headache of dealing with Diamond.
So, my perspective is that the cards will be making it in more numbers to maybe more comic book stores, but will that expose cards to more customers and expand the hobby? Probably not, as a store might get 2 boxes instead of 1 for a hot product, so same local customer can get few more packs. It definitely affects customers who relied on dealers to make up sets for them and/or help them finish master sets. Will eBay become only place to even attempt to make a master set? (Has it already? I have to go there for couple cards each product as it is.) Will the chase cards purchased in comic stores make it there? It will make the pack-pickers happy, so they'll have more guaranteed packs to offer online.
If Crypto sells out everything to diamond, and diamond sells everything to their stores, then that's the bottom line for both and we either deal with it or fold.
Am I too cynical? I'm passing on collecting stuff I was originally planning to as getting crazy to make master sets. Waiting to see what happens with WD, but thinking might pass on that too. Will see how my dealers allocations passed along.

I buy both comics and cards. Cards I purchase through a great distributor who won't take pre-sales until they know what allocations will be, I can live with that. Last year I happened to be getting my comics for the week when the Diamond order arrived from UPS. There was a box of Walking Dead included which I purchased on the spot. The dealer charged me $110 because he had been allocated from 3 boxes down to one. I can see this happening more and more. When the first series of TWD was out LCBS around town were charging $5 a pack saying most of there stock was low margins and this was a way of making money on hot properties. I've also run accross LCBS's who don't know how to sell cards, there displayed on the counters and usually well cherry picked.

Having owned a comic book shop. You are almost always allocated on new release non sports card from Diamond. You are also paying close to what people are paying for boxes from card dealers. You have to sell the packs at a premium just to make any money off of them.

The thing I am missing here is this. If the company has a product which is in such massive demand that it is being allocated all over the place why not just double the print run and then everybody can have what they want and the company makes twice as much money.

quote:

The thing I am missing here is this. If the company has a product which is in such massive demand that it is being allocated all over the place why not just double the print run and then everybody can have what they want and the company makes twice as much money.

I understanding what your saying but scaricty creates demand. Look back to Ty and their Beany Babies. Increased supply may have ended the collector craze long before it happened.

Finally got around to reading this thread and I will absolutely concur with what TWS originally posted.

My distributor, who does NOT sell to the public has carried Crypto's gaming products for years, and then carried their nonsports. My distributor has 3 warehouses. They now cannot get Crytozoic product.

Now, running a full-time business, I have many customers who preorder thru me. I base my buying decisions mostly on their preorders. And I generally guarantee my pricing.

So...when I was allocated on the first BBT albums from 1-1/2 cases to 1/2 case - I had to go out and pay $50 each to a distributor who had gambled (not having preorders)..and I still charged my customers the $28 I had originally solicited with. I took a beating on that. But my business relies on my regular customers - not ebay to whoever has the most money, but to folks who buy from me day in and day out.

Now, I can't guarantee them anything. I've been told I have to order album by the case (of 10).
Great, so if I only have orders for 3 albums, I have to eat 7 of them?? And, I'm allocated to who knows what on product. Do I end up with more albums than boxes? Do I end up with one case instead of four? Which one of my customers do I screw over..or do I have a raffle??

This is insanity. My customers are very UNhappy. I'm very UNhappy. And I guarantee you 98% of my customers are not going to go to eBay to spend $100 on a box of anything, never mind $150. They will quit first. They've done that before with other pricey product.

They will be unhappy. I will lose business.
Crypto will eventually lose business. They're already losing album business because dealers can't simply pick up a 1/2 dozen or so...

And though I used to carry all of their products, even if only a small amount if I didn't have overwhelming orders - I will be damned if I'll do that any more. I can't and won't support them if they won't have policies that support me and my customers. Bad enough that they started out not giving dealers promo cards to give to customers who were interested in their product. But now they don't want to deal with dealers at all. Not in email, not on the phone....

Have a problem with their product,and want to take care of it for our customers - no way can we do that any more.

From my business viewpoint, it's arrogant and nasty. I've never seen a company so unwilling to hear/deal with what customers and dealers want. It's all bean counting.

AND NOW they want dealers to place orders thru a couple of distributors WITHOUT HAVING ANY IDEA AS TO WHAT IS GOING TO ACTUALLY BE IN THE PRODUCT.

The solicitations for many of their series are due this month - and I have no idea what I might be buying, if I buy it. Never mind how much I might get of it.

You know, autos and costumes to be announced, place your order now.

IMO, Crypto does not understand nonsports cards.
It is NOT anything like gaming cards.

And it is ONLY dealers that carry their product to their customers. Dealers who break the product. Dealers who presell the product. And dealers who 'eat it' if a series doesn't sell.
As we all know, comic stores carry very little nonsports, and generally don't break it.

This comes on top of Upper Deck not selling to dealers who don't have brick 'n mortar stores.
And brick 'n mortar stores are NOT supposed to sell sealed product to us dealers. How many brick 'n mortar stores sell nonsports cards?

Geniuses, all of them.

Byrna
B&B Grrrl AF & Cards

quote:

Geniuses, all of them.

This forum seriously needs a 'Like' button
This last post was awesome.

To be honest I think that Bryna's post is a little harsh. To me CZE has been one of the best non sport companies out there. Now I don't agree with this new policy of theirs, but I do believe they have a good understanding of non sports cards, but they just don't want to deal with hundreds of people ordering from them.

I mean think about what they did with The Walking Dead Season 2...they held back several cases from which they sold boxes on their online store for retail price instead of the $125-$150 a box it cost elsewhere.

This new policy is pretty silly though. I was fortunate to get 2 cases of BBT season 5 at decent prices, and I'll be able to get a case of TWD Season 3 part 1 and one of part 2 for decent prices, but I do purchase a lot of product from the same person so I was able to get decent deals, but I really can't imagine what the people who only purchase these products will do because it will just be difficult for them to get them.

quote:

Originally posted by cardcollectors uk:

quote:

Geniuses, all of them.

This forum seriously needs a 'Like' button
This last post was awesome.

Yes, I totally agree.
Great post Byrna! I hope someone from Crytozoic reads it. They probably still won't give a stuff about it, but it might make them think a little.

This type of situation happens a lot in business in general. You start off with a nice little or medium-sized company, trading/serving their customers in a way that is super friendly and super in tune with feedback from said customers. THEN they get bigger and more confident, and at that point there's two ways to go: either keep the policies they always had, or forget the people that supported them and helped to build their reputation and fortunes. Not hard to see which route Crytozoic have taken....or how it appears at the moment to the average dealer or collector, those not 'worthy' enough to be given the crumbs from the table.

It makes you wonder what they'll do if collectors just say they've had enough and boycott their products completely. I hope that happens.

quote:

Originally posted by barobehere:
Having owned a comic book shop. You are almost always allocated on new release non sports card from Diamond. You are also paying close to what people are paying for boxes from card dealers. You have to sell the packs at a premium just to make any money off of them.

Yeah, that is why I never ordered cards from them.

Diamond is not the only distrbutor. There's some online distributors (dealers IMO). And then there's GTS. GTS has increased cutomers due to the new polocy.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
The thing I am missing here is this. If the company has a product which is in such massive demand that it is being allocated all over the place why not just double the print run and then everybody can have what they want and the company makes twice as much money.

I have been saying this for over a year. Now that allocations are hurting more peoples wallets, they are starting to see what I did long ago.