quote:

Originally posted by Logan:
This may be a dumb question and I know hindsight is always 20/20, but why make the poor-selling sets in the first place? I don't mean to come off like an expert (which I certainly am not) but I don't think it's that difficult to judge which sets have a chance to be good sellers and which do not.

I think it is tough. With movie sets, card manufacturers used to jump too soon. Then the movie bombed and the card sets died. Now they are doing the opposite. The movie comes out and six months to a year later, someone is making the cards. By that time no one cares about the movie anymore.

With TV shows, they are making sets from shows that have themes that either don't translate well to card collectors or are very much niche oriented. Also there are a lot of them, which means they are in competition for collector money and someone will lose.

Now with the big franchises, Bond, Star Trek, Star Wars, they are making too many of them. Even rabid collectors can't keep up with 2 releases a year plus various related offshoots.

Sets that are comic or sketch card based are a whole other topic. Some are so very limited they sell out just on the half-dozen people who ever heard of it. Others like Marvel, DC or even Mars Attacks are meant for general distribution. How well they do depends mainly on the price and the sketch quality.

What I would like to know, and maybe a dealer or someone in the know can post it, is what titles or releases really did badly? Can we expect anymore Fringe or Castle or Psyche? Was Galantic Files a big seller or are they collecting dust? Much of the time all we hear is the hype and we only suspect what's going on in the business. A topic for another day I guess.

For the Manufacturer, if they sell out it is a hit. It doesn't matter if it sell to their distributers or the end customers. If they are out of stock it is a hit.
For the Distributer/dealer if they sell enough to make a profit it is a hit. So, when I had a shop and I typically bought 3 boxes to a case (10 to 12). I had to sell all 3 to make a profit or 10 of the 12 in a case to get all my money back + a profit, this is without opening the boxes to get the "hits" out which is a different thing altogether).

I mean it is pretty hard to judge. I (like most people at the time) under ordered Joss Weadon's Serenity. It was a sell out smash. The show had been off the air for a few years and the movie has positive buzz but little traction. When it was released the fans came out of nowhere wanting it. The first few Charmed sets were like this too but when you got to the last two releases the fans had moved on. How is a dealer to know that? So, it is a big gamble for anyone on a property.

I am a big fan of Dowton Abbey. It will be a must buy for me. So, they have a buyer in me but there are other card collectors that won't touch it. It is a big hit in the UK and the US but are the watchers card buyers? Only time will tell if this card set is a "hit" or a "miss".

And as collectors, are we really interested in that $100 box of Walking Dead, that when broken down ends up being worth about $50 because you didn't pull that rare autograph card?

quote:

Originally posted by jane:
And as collectors, are we really interested in that $100 box of Walking Dead, that when broken down ends up being worth about $50 because you didn't pull that rare autograph card?

If you look at it objectively, that has always been the case. Part of the appeal of buying a blind box or case is that you may pull that rare hit, which you couldn't otherwise afford. Most of the time you don't. You make a base set and get a couple of common hits and your pulled cards are worth less than what you paid. Fifty percent value is actually pretty good, I've always found the average to be more like a third.

But the problem today is that an $85 - $100 box is beginning to become the norm for a popular title. Mark ups might take BBT or WD to $120 and over. So when the breaks come out the way they always did percentage wise, the actual value lost is considerably more dollar wise.

There's not a lot you can do about this except stop buying boxes and concentrate on single purchases, which is always more cost effective. Not nearly as much fun though.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

If you look at it objectively, that has always been the case. Part of the appeal of buying a blind box or case is that you may pull that rare hit, which you couldn't otherwise afford. Most of the time you don't. You make a base set and get a couple of common hits and your pulled cards are worth less than what you paid. Fifty percent value is actually pretty good, I've always found the average to be more like a third.

But the problem today is that an $85 - $100 box is beginning to become the norm for a popular title. Mark ups might take BBT or WD to $120 and over. So when the breaks come out the way they always did percentage wise, the actual value lost is considerably more dollar wise.

There's not a lot you can do about this except stop buying boxes and concentrate on single purchases, which is always more cost effective. Not nearly as much fun though.

Absolutely but with the allocations I would say we're not going to find the popular titles at less than $135 to $150 a box and Jane is right that after opening if you don't pull the Big Hit you have $50 worth of cards, maybe. Raven's dead on about concentrating on the singles.. I wish Crypto would step up the production so that these allocations don't happen to this extreme. But the distributors like GTS are the real blame here.. Strong arm tactics to spend thousands of dollars on the releases nobody wants just to be able to buy some of the better more popular products! Because I didn't buy enough of the products that dogged I was only allowed to have 2% of my order for Big Bang Theory. Never got a chance to know how bad my Walking Dead order is cut. Now I have to figure out what to do..

quote:

Originally posted by TWS:
Never got a chance to know how bad my Walking Dead order is cut. Now I have to figure out what to do..

The obvious answer here is to order 500 cases so when you are allocated to 2% you get the 10 cases you actually want. . . (of course I'm kidding, but the point is that these situations do lead to people over ordering in hopes of getting what they actually want. . . )

quote:

Originally posted by TWS:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

If you look at it objectively, that has always been the case. Part of the appeal of buying a blind box or case is that you may pull that rare hit, which you couldn't otherwise afford. Most of the time you don't. You make a base set and get a couple of common hits and your pulled cards are worth less than what you paid. Fifty percent value is actually pretty good, I've always found the average to be more like a third.

But the problem today is that an $85 - $100 box is beginning to become the norm for a popular title. Mark ups might take BBT or WD to $120 and over. So when the breaks come out the way they always did percentage wise, the actual value lost is considerably more dollar wise.

There's not a lot you can do about this except stop buying boxes and concentrate on single purchases, which is always more cost effective. Not nearly as much fun though.

Absolutely but with the allocations I would say we're not going to find the popular titles at less than $135 to $150 a box and Jane is right that after opening if you don't pull the Big Hit you have $50 worth of cards, maybe. Raven's dead on about concentrating on the singles.. I wish Crypto would step up the production so that these allocations don't happen to this extreme. But the distributors like GTS are the real blame here.. Strong arm tactics to spend thousands of dollars on the releases nobody wants just to be able to buy some of the better more popular products! Because I didn't buy enough of the products that dogged I was only allowed to have 2% of my order for Big Bang Theory. Never got a chance to know how bad my Walking Dead order is cut. Now I have to figure out what to do..

Yeah I agree, we are both saying the same thing, you as a dealer and me as a box buyer.

But let's face it, if it plays out the way it looks now, when these titles get released there is going to be a backlash. No one is going to be satisfied with paying $120 and over for a box that yields a "Captain Sweatpants" autograph.

This just makes it harder for everyone. As a collector you may just preorder 1 or 2 boxes, then your dealer doesn't get enough allocated to them and you miss out. Then it's down to finding them on the market where the price has already increased. It makes you go back to just collecting the singles you can afford as soon as the product is released and they have flooded the market.

quote:

Originally posted by Sidewinder:
This just makes it harder for everyone. As a collector you may just preorder 1 or 2 boxes, then your dealer doesn't get enough allocated to them and you miss out. Then it's down to finding them on the market where the price has already increased. It makes you go back to just collecting the singles you can afford as soon as the product is released and they have flooded the market.

Absolutely!! I've had to cancel all of the preorders.. Many collectors are upset about this but they have said they understand that it's the Manufacturer and Distributors but it still puts me and them in a bind and on the hunts for overpriced boxes.. My biggest question is why did Cryptozoic stop selling to their dealers and distributors in favor of a couple dealers and distributors. Why didn't they put the exclusivity of distribution offer to more people. I didn't hear about it until we were already cast aside and told they didn't need us any longer and if we wanted to buy any Cryptozoic products we had to order from those couple of dealers. Hmmmm what did they do to be an "Exclusive Cryptozoic Dealer/Distributor" when nobody else was given the offer.. $$$???

This was posted by Miranda on the Blowout forum:

Hi Folks,
The updated list for The Big Bang Theory Season 5 Trading Cards is complete.
We finalized our pack-out strategy with the printer today, and I will update the website tomorrow with an official release date.
This means that Kaley will not be part of the Autograph line-up. I really wish I had better news to announce regarding her cards.

I do have some good news to announce this week regarding signers for other sets, so please stay tuned to the Cryptozoic website!

quote:

Originally posted by SHouseman:


I do have some good news to announce this week regarding signers for other sets, so please stay tuned to the Cryptozoic website!

Not a lot of good if you only collect BBT. Do Cryptozoic think we are so enamoured with them that good news on another set will please us?

quote:

Originally posted by Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by SHouseman:


I do have some good news to announce this week regarding signers for other sets, so please stay tuned to the Cryptozoic website!

Not a lot of good if you only collect BBT. Do Cryptozoic think we are so enamoured with them that good news on another set will please us?

I think they are trying to deflect the big problem here.. Doesn't do any good if the big stars don't sign and the product is so allocated that either we can't buy them or the price will be out of reach. You also have to wonder just how many autograph cards are going to be available from the top stars or will the product be loaded with autographs from people who we in very minor roles. If the major stars are dropping out of the popular releases then what are we left with? Over priced dud releases. Maybe they knew all along that some of the top signers weren't going to be in the release so it was hyped up with very limited allocations. Bet it's the same thing for Walking Dead. Makes me question this all.

It looks like Cryptozoic posted the signers in the BBT Release. Still doesn't matter if we can't get the cards or have to pay through the nose because they are so limited and allocated. Here's the latest:
Autograph Signers that have returned cards: Johnny Galecki, Jim Parsons, Simon Helberg, Kunal Nayyar, Mayim Bialik, Melissa Rauch, Leonard Nimoy, Brent Spiner, Joshua Malina, Vernee Watson, Kevin Sussman, John Ross Bowie, Chriselle Almeida, Peter Onorati, Katie Leclerc, Lance Barber, Laurie Metcalf, Alice Amter, Casey Sander, and Becky O'Donohue

Guess I won't get any of them since my orders were cut from 10 cases to 3 boxes to now zero.. Thanks to the Manufacturer and Distributors.

I'm conflicted about the whole thing. I've no objection in theory to the idea of ....controlling the distribution of the sets to some degree. I think letting anyone and everyone have access at wholesale level is a problem and encourages dumping and some weird pricing. Having said THAT, I don't think this also means dealers can just rip off their clients by over pricing soley because they CAN. I can see why they might want to charge more for a hot product, if it's required they get all the not hot product too...but...gosh...it's tough

I am fascinated by this discussion. People are complaining everywhere about having to pay $100-$120 per box for BBT, yet I see boxes and cases for sale right now for significantly less not being gobbled up on fleabay and other sites.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am one of the fleabay sellers but this isn't about me; I am just trying to understand all the negativity and false information out there right now about box prices. If you don't want to pay $120 per box, then why not lock in with any number of reputable online dealers either on ebay or throughout the internet. They all guarantee delivery of product unless of course it's a fly-by-nighter, but those types are easy to weed out.

I welcome open responses because I am very confused.

Thanks all!
Tim

quote:

Originally posted by snoopy351:
If you don't want to pay $120 per box, then why not lock in with any number of reputable online dealers either on ebay or throughout the internet. They all guarantee delivery of product unless of course it's a fly-by-nighter, but those types are easy to weed out.

Even then, there's no guarantee you'll ever see your order. I held on for over a year for my WD2 order from a good dealer I've dealt with before. He was at his distributor's mercy and never received the product to this date. I got my deposit refunded, but the stupid delay caused me to miss the pre-order boat and I can't now justify paying twice as much per box.

TWS is certainly reputable, yet he's unable to fill all of his customer's orders. So the only guarantees in life remain death and taxes.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:

quote:

Originally posted by snoopy351:
If you don't want to pay $120 per box, then why not lock in with any number of reputable online dealers either on ebay or throughout the internet. They all guarantee delivery of product unless of course it's a fly-by-nighter, but those types are easy to weed out.

Even then, there's no guarantee you'll ever see your order. I held on for over a year for my WD2 order from a good dealer I've dealt with before. He was at his distributor's mercy and never received the product to this date. I got my deposit refunded, but the stupid delay caused me to miss the pre-order boat and I can't now justify paying twice as much per box.

TWS is certainly reputable, yet he's unable to fill all of his customer's orders. So the only guarantees in life remain death and taxes.

I think this hits the nail on the head. . . buyers don't feel like they can trust the system to get what they actually order. . .

Well I know of many dealers who guarantee presells. Just without trying I came up with 4 counting myself, and I know there are probably a lot more than that.

Not saying there aren't some who have to cancel, but allocations were just guaranteed by my supplier a week ago. I will admit anyone selling cases before then was rolling the dice and shouldn't have, but from now until release date I just don't see this being an issue from reputable sources.

What happens if you guarantee a pre-sell and then cannot deliver.?

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
What happens if you guarantee a pre-sell and then cannot deliver.?

I am trying to understand how that happens. It's pretty simple.

1. Company X is told by Crypto how many cases they are getting. (If we don't believe that C has this # accurately depicted, then we should be questioning every single release from every company.)

2.) I put in my order REQUEST for product Y with company X. (At this point in time no one should be pre-selling.)

3.) Company X responds several weeks later with my guaranteed allocation.

4.) I sell up to my allocation.

5.) Company X delivers product. Dealer then ships to collectors/buyers of presales.

What am I missing here guys? Seems straightforward to me.