quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
If something is expected to disappoint and it bombs, where is the disappointment? If it turns out to be a success, then it would be a disappointment. A slow day.

Too bad they cant figure this all out BEFORE they make the movie.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
Just watched 'The Flash' at my local Cineworld. No spoilers beyond mentioning that there is a credit scene right at the end of the credits. All I will say about the film is that it made 'Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania' look really good

Went to see Flash today. It was a plot-full of holes, stupid and was obviously created from the notes that WB took while watching the last Spiderman movie. In spite of all that I enjoyed it. I thought the Nick Cage Superman was really funny. I can't think of anything that could be considered an addition or a direction for the DCEU. Including the end credit scene.

Also saw Air yesterday. Standard formula sports flick that only pays homage to out of the box thinking and risks as long as you win in the end. Still need to check out the hollywood vs history sites on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Went to see Flash today. It was a plot-full of holes, stupid and was obviously created from the notes that WB took while watching the last Spiderman movie. In spite of all that I enjoyed it.

I'm kind of surprised you liked it, since you get more involved with the CG aspics of film creation. I have read in several places that the CGI in "The Flash" looks pretty bad in certain scenes. The criticism has been enough to prompt the Director to say that they intended it to look that way because it was from the character's wonky viewpoint. Always a nice copout to say its supposed to look bad, so it's really good.

The other thing I have heard, and this might be a mild spoiler although I'm not naming names, is that a couple of dead actors managed to appear as artificially doctored cameos. This has been done in a few films already and I am really against this practice, whether it looks cohesive on screen or not. Create the characters with other people if you want them to appear, but don't bring back dead actors like shadow puppets with a vocal track. If you did that you wouldn't need any real actors anymore and its disrespectful to the actual people who have passed on. Celluloid heroes are immortal for what they did in their lifetime, not as an image that can get plugged into anything so long as their Estate gets paid.

I'm sorry, for some reason I mixed up Kevin F. and mykdude in the above post. In fact Kevin, who is the big CGI guy, didn't like The Flash. Please forgive my mistake, I shall have to read slower.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I'm sorry, for some reason I mixed up Kevin F. and mykdude in the above post. In fact Kevin, who is the big CGI guy, didn't like The Flash. Please forgive my mistake, I shall have to read slower.

Always remember, my favourite film maker is Ray Harryhausen the stop-motion wizard and pioneer. CG never featured in any of his classic movies

I can appreciate CGI in films because I have first hand experience of what is involved in creating them but a bad film is still a bad film even with the best CGI images ever The CGI in The Flash wasn't that great especially due to some features being over used, e.g. far, far too much lightning sparking around.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I'm kind of surprised you liked it.

Like might be too strong of a word. I think enjoyable train wreck is a better description. The ramblings of Ezra, the rehash of Zod and the Back to the Future rules on time travel fused with a blast from the past kept my attention. I didn't hate it when I actually thought I would.

The return of the dead is done in a way to where they aren't actually acting. I'm doubt any estates collected anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I'm sorry, for some reason I mixed up Kevin F. and mykdude in the above post. In fact Kevin, who is the big CGI guy, didn't like The Flash. Please forgive my mistake, I shall have to read slower.

Haha forgiven. Although my childhood scifi was pre CGI I also know that without it we would never have some of the greatest images tied to the greatest stories ever told.

According to Variety, The Flash bombed, grossing less than 60 M while Disney's The Elementals made less than 30 M. The Flash might end up making less than Black Adam. Is this the end of the DC Movie universe ?

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Is this the end of the DC Movie universe ?

I wish. But if you mean trotting out any and all related characters, maybe.

Marvel always had the advantage over DC because the characters were more widely known, even though DC came first, and Marvel was the copier. Marvel was able to spice things up more, even while essentially matching character for character with the barest of differences. Also generally speaking, Marvel characters were more positive and fun. DC went more for dark and brooding. Of late, dark and brooding has approached manic-depressive for some of these tortured souls, including the Flash. In short, DC characters are no fun, which is one of the reasons why the first Wonder Woman movie with fun worked and the second one without fun didn't.

DC films will continue, but I think they will stick with the core of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman and their resident villains once the current crop already finished is released. I also think Marvel is going to have losses too if they keep trying to drill down from the core Avengers as movie headliners.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
The return of the dead is done in a way to where they aren't actually acting. I'm doubt any estates collected anything.

I'm not so sure about that because I can't find a way to pose the question on Google that gives me any answer. We live in a litigious society and celebrity Estates are all about squeezing out the money for heirs that may not have even known that person in life. Even in a wordless cameo, if even an image appears in a major film and someone owns the rights, I would think they would need to give permission and that wouldn't be for free, unless it's somehow in public domain or the studio itself can claim the rights. And by the way, Helen Slater is very much alive.

Considering that the Flash is not exactly setting the world on fire, I wonder if they will even bother to release Blue Beetle in August. Also, it looks like Transformers has slown considerably, just passing 100 M in its second week

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Considering that the Flash is not exactly setting the world on fire, I wonder if they will even bother to release Blue Beetle in August. Also, it looks like Transformers has slown considerably, just passing 100 M in its second week

They probably have to as it's too late too change, whether they want to or not. The studio could put it up for streaming faster. Honestly if it wasn't for Card Talk, I wouldn't even know this film had been made or was scheduled for release, that's how much I've heard about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

I'm not so sure about that because I can't find a way to pose the question on Google that gives me any answer. We live in a litigious society and celebrity Estates are all about squeezing out the money for heirs that may not have even known that person in life.

This is true but it would primarily depend on who had image/character rights during contract signing. Would Helen Slater be able to pull off likeness rights on a first (and final) film? What about stuff from the 50's and 60's? I think the only one I saw that might have gotten paid was Reeves. I think your idea of the studio owning it probably applied in most cases.

Of course if the movie isn't going to make it's money back it will all be a wash anyway.

I just checked IMDB and they are all credited as "archive footage"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
According to Variety, The Flash bombed, grossing less than 60 M while Disney's The Elementals made less than 30 M. The Flash might end up making less than Black Adam. Is this the end of the DC Movie universe ?

They showed the Elemental preview before Flash. The typical follow your heart and be yourself dribble that has been regurgitated a thousand times from Disney.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I just checked IMDB and they are all credited as "archive footage"

Hah, I would still try to sue.

So with all the stuff filmed and maybe left on the cutting room, is it OK to splice it back together and edit it up for a new movie without paying the actor (living or dead) anything? I'm just wondering out loud because whole performances have been cut out of movies and it could all be in the archives.

They use it in extended Director Cuts when they want to, but that at least is the same movie and job. Can they stick archive footage in a different movie without paying the actor any more money? Apparently, they think they can. Sue!

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

So with all the stuff filmed and maybe left on the cutting room, is it OK to splice it back together and edit it up for a new movie without paying the actor (living or dead) anything?

Well, that's how Hollywood screwed over actors and content providers for decades. Sports too. It is why Dave Prowse was still waiting for his back end earnings bonus from Return of the Jedi up to the day he died. According to the studio it never made a profit. I just watched a 4 part series on the Amityville Horror and in spite of 23 films being made the Lutz family got screwed over and over again. Watch the documentary on Dirty Dancing. Several people felt they got screwed when the film exploded at the box office. Honestly there was no reason not to float them a nice bonus check but in the end they got what they contracted for. It is not a benevolent system unless being benevolent brings in a revenue.

As much as I love movies and collecting autographs I always have to remember that Hollywood is an evil institution playing by its own set of rules. They are lawyered up, well equipped and ready to squeeze the blood out of every penny.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

Yeah, for sure the studios cheat people whenever they can get away with it. The minor folk don't have a chance, whereas big names like Scarlet Johansson have the money and the clout to fight back and win.

Most of that is in the magic accounting that erases profits, so that backend commission points are cut or never realized. Using old film footage for new compilation movies or documentaries is also a grey area where no one usual gets any kind of residuals either.

But the idea that you can drop old footage into a brand-new movie without having permission from the actor and make it look like that character is in the story is just wrong. Alright, it's done really quickly in "The Flash", but the audience is supposed to see it, remember those actors in character and react to it. It's too cute by half and as long as the writers are striking, the actors should ask for some new rules too, before they are archived and/or digitized out of their jobs.

Definitely agree. I have always felt for every independent film (where everyone takes a pay cut) there should be a box office range payback scale in the case the film blows up.

In most cases it would never go into effect but fair is fair when it does.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tommy C:
The Flash bombed, grossing less than 60 M while Disney's The Elementals made less than 30 M./QUOTE]

For "The Elementals", to spend 200M to make an animated film aimed at younger children who wouldn't know the difference anyway is insane.

For "The Flash", they all knew for nearly a year that they were holding their breathe. The only positive thing they had going for it was the return of Michael Keaton and the promise of surprise appearances that sparked fan theories. Don't disregard how much damage an unpromotable star does to a movie that has to draw in a big crowd of all ages just to break even. Also insane from a business standpoint.

I think that after this, Ezra Miller is finished as an A list star. Not that he ever was one. Why even hire a guy to play the Flash when he looks nothing like Barry Allen from the comics, who since 1956 has been a guy with a blonde crew cut ?

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
I think that after this, Ezra Miller is finished as an A list star. Not that he ever was one. Why even hire a guy to play the Flash when he looks nothing like Barry Allen from the comics, who since 1956 has been a guy with a blonde crew cut ?

I suppose it had to be in keeping with the actor they cast as Supergirl in the film. Supergirl has also always had blonde hair, except in this latest appearance, as far as I can remember.