quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I almost bought a graded card once. It was priced about the same as the card was going ungraded.

It was 2001 that I first noticed that someone had had a non-sports card graded. I think it was a Buffy promo.

I have often said that if grading companies had any integrity at all they would not accept any item less than 25 years old for examination. Particularly with items that have an entire protection industry built around them.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I have often said that if grading companies had any integrity at all they would not accept any item less than 25 years old for examination. Particularly with items that have an entire protection industry built around them.

The original primary purpose to have a third party grading service look at a card was to determine that it had not been repaired or trimmed and was an authentic card. The condition evaluation came after the card was first authenticated as genuine and in its natural untampered state. Of course the idea was to focus on vintage cards, unusually expensive cards and cards given to counterfeiting or card doctoring.

It's not really the grading card companies that turned a valid buyer protection service into a shell game. That they made a fortune taking advantage of it is good business. It's the card buyers and card collectors that embraced the practice for cards that had no business being in slabs because there was no need for expert confirmation.

Graded cards are a separate collectibles market now. It's as much slab collecting and numbers collecting as it has anything to do with cards, but the fact that high graded cards sell with considerable premiums over the raw copies is also true. Not all the time, but for the right high demand cards its true.

So as always its the buyers who don't know when to stop that create these monsters. I'm happy that a whole lot of non-sport card collectors, in general more so than with sports cards, have enough knowledge to understand when card grading should be recommended and when its entirely unnecessary.

Integrity implies what they should do over what they are doing. I don't fault them for what they are doing but it is not good for the hobby. At least in the purest sense.

I have to disagree that it all falls on the collectors. Both the grading and manufacture companies have been hard marketing the rarity game for at least a couple of decades. Gem Mint 10's and 1 of 1's number in the millions. Now the grading companies are so backed up they can no longer provide a good service. Makes me a little nervous when all of them have "now hiring" banners on their websites.

As you say without the demand many of the pretty slabs and numbered cards sell for a loss, if they sell at all. I have about a dozen or so cards that have hit values where I probably should get them graded but have no interest in attending the current circus.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I have to disagree that it all falls on the collectors. Both the grading and manufacture companies have been hard marketing the rarity game for at least a couple of decades.

Would it make you agree more if I said it falls on the buyers? Because a lot of the transactions involved in getting raw cards graded and then reselling them afterwards do seem to lack an actual card collector. And the hard marketing you're referring to may entice a newbie collector to the graded market in the last few years, but I have yet to find a long time card collector who is impressed enough to have converted a sizable portion of their collection to slabs, or even a small portion.

Some rare cards benefit from grading, the vast majority don't need it. If its not leaving your collection until you drop dead, it doesn't need it either.

If card buyers of every stripe simply said I'm not paying any premium for a graded card that doesn't have a legitimate need to be authenticated by a recognized third party, that would probably take out about 90% of the graded card market.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Would it make you agree more if I said it falls on the buyers?

Would it make you agree less if I said companies don't spend billions on marketing and advertising because it's not effective? I didn't say the buyers don't bear a level of responsibility just saying that there is much more involved than grass roots buying habits.

I think grading and authenticating the more valuable items in ones collection can be very helpful to who the collection passes on to. Especially after I die. For the rest, keeping good records with best known production numbers keeps family members from hundreds of hours of data collecting just to know what I had. Simply looking down the barrel of such a huge task could cause many to sell for pennies on the dollar.

You are correct. If the card buying collective would all get on the same page and stop spending stupid money things could get healthy again. Unfortunately this group does not exist with motive consistency. Which brings me full circle. Who should know most about the "legitimate" need to grade than card graders with integrity?

Grading has become a necessity when people are buying cards they have never held.

When most deals for high dollar cards were done in person, you could determine value. Now it's a scan of the card and some trust. It does help to have a 3rd party validate a card.

And there is definitely a value-added portion when you think of family liquidating your collection when you pass.

That said, I have no graded cards in my collection and don't know that I plan to. But I do have some graded cards in inventory.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
And there is definitely a value-added portion when you think of family liquidating your collection when you pass.

Ed

I don't. If they can't be bothered to ask me about it now while I can answer, they are on their own.

We all have families and/or significant others and ideally we would like our card collections to be passed on to someone who appreciates them, rather than simply being liquidated. Unfortunately many of us know that isn't going to be the case, but that is another topic and I think there is a thread about it someplace on Card Talk. I would have no interest in grading cards for anyone else's convenience and that's just the truth. But that is my own truth.

Yes, buying an expensive card sight unseen and having to rely on a seller's condition evaluation can cause problems. If you must have the mint card and are paying the price for it, buying it already graded becomes a valid reason. I don't believe sellers of autographs that say "guaranteed to pass PSA authentication" anymore than I believe sellers who say "will grade 9 or better". If it's guaranteed, why haven't they gotten it authenticated or graded themselves before putting it up? Especially when they are selling other items that have been slabbed. Are these perhaps the rejects?

Anyway its an interesting subject and there are many valid reasons to have specific cards graded, but the way grading is being overused now is not just a waste of money. Like mykdude said, it does hurt the hobby and erodes confidence, when it actually should be doing just the opposite. However you can forget about the integrity of grading services to curb what is making them millions of dollars.