Yeah, but apart from that "COA", the description has the authenticator as PSA. The card is not in a PSA holder or any holder that I can make out.

The seller is also offering several other signed Buffy cards for whopping amounts, but they don't appear to have a "COA", went through PSA, or were "one in a contest".

But its a good example for people to see everything that should send up red flags individually, all at once, including the fact that a high price is no more proof than a low price or a reasonable price.

One side note about grading - and something I didn't notice much until I just checked now - the fees to get cards graded have risen dramatically over the last couple years. When I used to submit the fees were around $10-$15 a card, with a turnaround time of 20 business days. Now you're looking at $25-$35 per card at the lowest tier, with an "estimated" turnaround time of 8 months or more. That's crazy. Is this all a result of how high the grading companies are seeing their slabs sell for? Or is it because business is slow and they're struggling to stay afloat? I really have no idea. But I'm interested to see the effect it has on sale prices of graded cards - particularly the cards that aren't the heavy hitters. An '8' usually sells for the same cost, or even less, than the same card ungraded. I wonder if that's all changing now - with sellers asking for a dramatic increase for that 8 because of the cost to get it graded - and if anyone is willing to pay that markup. I guess it all depends on the card. And as stated before the card market is rising in many areas. But I would think that people will start shying away from submitting cards that aren't worth those high fees, and stick more to higher-end cards in top condition - unless they get some kind of bulk-submission price deal.

People on Blowout and Facebook are starting to note that prices on individual cards have already started to slide.

Anecdotally I picked up some Ultra Spider-Man on COMC when that was selling out on ePack with the intention of flipping it when the product dried up, but the prices on virtually everything I bought have dropped. Obviously that wasn't very long ago.

Humm..., I think they're just taking a breather on the Marvel cards. I just found this auction that ended 2 days ago:"1990 Marvel Universe Wolverine Hologram production Card". Sold on ebay for $1,000. back is stamped sample.

Hi Promoking,

I just looked at that. Wow. I haven't seen that before. In the current climate someone thought it was worth the asking price.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
Humm..., I think they're just taking a breather on the Marvel cards. I just found this auction that ended 2 days ago:"1990 Marvel Universe Wolverine Hologram production Card". Sold on ebay for $1,000. back is stamped sample.

In years to come, this will be looked at as the "Great Covid boredom rush" of the early 2020's.
People are trying to cash in on what I can only describe as 'dust collectors' because one person had a base card PSA'd and it sold for way more than it's worth to most collectors here. Why? The Emperor's new Clothes syndrome. If someone wants a high price for something, it must be worth that price. I've seen countless posts on Facebook where someone has purchased a 1990's box for hundred$ (that a couple of years ago dealers couldn't shift for $40) and then asking if they should flip or open because there may be one or two "perfect" cards to get slabbed with a 10 rating. In 10 years time, these cards may not even be worth the price it cost to grade them.

Logan - the price hasn't gone up because business is slow, but quite the opposite. The companies have been so swamped that for general grading, the wait time has gone up to a year unless you pay a whopping premium to get them back within weeks instead of months. One company has shut down the lower tier section because, quite frankly, they can. Why deal with the $10 customer when there's a huge queue in the $100 line?

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
Humm..., I think they're just taking a breather on the Marvel cards. I just found this auction that ended 2 days ago:"1990 Marvel Universe Wolverine Hologram production Card". Sold on ebay for $1,000. back is stamped sample.

It could be that people are taking a breather. I've seen a lot of the speculators finally admit that these cards are overproduced despite denying it strenuously initially. As the word of the crazy prices creeps out more and more people are coming out of the woodwork selling collections.

I think that some of the actual rare cards and sealed product will remain elevated in value, who knows about the rest.

It will also be interesting to see how many of these cards are graded over the next year. It seems some speculators are sending these cards in to PSA by the hundreds. I don't know how many people are paying hundreds of dollars for MU1 graded commons, but I don't think it is that many.

I've been on the fence about whether this PSA grading craze in non-sports is here to stay. Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that it is the future of our hobby. As much as I am glad to see a 30% jump in non-sports cards sales during the pandemic in general, many "young people" entering the hobby are only interested in graded cards and they are the future of our hobby. The price spread between graded and ungraded cards is too wide to ignore. This trend, in my opinion, is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

I have vehemently resisted the urge to jump on the bandwagon up to now, but graded non-sports cards are becoming the norm and their prices are tempting even the most reluctant collector.

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
I have vehemently resisted the urge to jump on the bandwagon up to now, but graded non-sports cards are becoming the norm and their prices are tempting even the most reluctant collector.

Yes, there is always the temptation to go along with a movement. The feeling that you are missing the bandwagon, especially in the early stages when everything is new and going well. However following movements that you don't really believe in can come up empty later on when you say "I should have known better".

There are good reasons to grade cards and bad reasons to do it. There are cards that benefit from grading and cards that have no business being in slabs. To me, card grading was never meant to be overused, it was never meant to be the norm. It's just not necessary and not worth the fee charged in most cases.

You know when these "young people" with graded Marvel base cards are going to realize they made a mistake? When they all look to cash in on them in mass and find no buyers. That is the time when we all discover the true value of our cards. When we try to profit by selling and find out we can't even break even. When we find out that no one is really buying at the high column in the price guide, in slabs or not. When we find out that graded card buyers won't consider anything under a 9.

When we find out that only a fraction of the cards we have held for years has any current demand and the rest make up a great collection that anyone would want, but they don't really want to pay for it.

A lot of this grading movement that has been bleeding into non-sport cards recently has been fueled by speculators who are simply looking to flip fast, by lockdown boredom, by the fact the some people do have extra money with nothing to buy and for Marvel fans, the movies are on hold. The cards that are vintage, that are rare, that were counterfeited, that are condition sensitive, that are in demand, that were already expensive, have good reasons for grading if you are so inclined.

Common cards don't need it. Cheap cards don't need it. Cards no one is looking for don't need it. How much of the card market, sports and non-sports, falls into the don't need it group? The vast majority actually.

I can't say that I see grading as the future of the hobby because grading adds a premium that you have to get back. Grading makes it more expensive to be a card collector if that becomes the standard. It will make card collecting even more unaffordable for new collectors and will be a deterrent to them to even start. And for the ones who jumped on the bandwagon just thinking that they will get rich quick, well get in and out fast, because the coach may turn back into a pumpkin when the clock strikes 12.

It will be interesting to see what happens as time moves forward.

I think that grading is definitely going to stick around for vintage cards. Grading has been big in Mars Attacks cards for probably 10 years -- I only know that because I was trying to put together a set of MA and as soon as they started grading MA cards I was priced out of the market.

I have no idea if grading will continue with the 1990s cards. There are SO MANY 1990s Marvel cards that I have a hard time believing there is enough people in the world willing to pay the prices. I also keep hearing people lament about how condition sensitive these cards are then explain they just sent 30% of a set they just bought on eBay in for grading.

If this does continue I see it being a new segment of the hobby, I don't think a lot of existing entertainment card collectors are going to pay $1000+ for a 1990s Marvel card.

I don't know how the current Marvel surge/bubble/whatever is going to play out. I just can't see prices for graded cards staying sky high for cards from sets like 1990 Marvel Universe or 1992 Marvel Masterpieces. Even the chase cards aren't rare. It's not like Silver Age comics where there are just a handful of super high grade copies of key issues.

I don't know what the print run was for 1990 Marvel Universe between the boxes and the tins. Yes, many cards may be hard to find in PSA 10 right now but as someone else pointed out, once the hundreds of copies of each card being shipped off for grading hit the marketplace, I expect prices to plummet.

I wonder if the 1987 Comic Images Marvel Universe set will take off next...

The money floating around in card collecting has finally caught the attention of the dear old BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56413186

It makes for interesting reading

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
I have vehemently resisted the urge to jump on the bandwagon up to now, but graded non-sports cards are becoming the norm and their prices are tempting even the most reluctant collector.

Is it more tempting to get your current raw cards graded to sell? Or to buy cards that are already graded to collect? Or some combination of buying and selling them?

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
The money floating around in card collecting has finally caught the attention of the dear old BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56413186

It makes for interesting reading

Interesting! Thank you for sharing!

For me, It would be sending in cards to be graded. I can't see myself spending 10 times the price listed in price guides to have one graded ever!

As far as sending one in, I hear it's taking months to get a card graded and I don't have the patience to wait that long before posting it for sale.

Currently, I've noticed that there are a few sports card dealers on Ebay that are behind this non-sports card grading craze who are attempting to become "influencers" of this trend. They are the ones driving this!

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
Currently, I've noticed that there are a few sports card dealers on Ebay that are behind this non-sports card grading craze who are attempting to become "influencers" of this trend. They are the ones driving this!

Bloggers and/or Influencers, the new professions.

Kind of frightening how easy it has become to manipulation public opinion and behavior in all things. The grading craze is no different, but hobby cycles will always prevail anyway. However the amount of money that is being thrown around right now is astounding. I'm hearing about sports cards and gaming cards as investments and celebrity hobbies in regular media stories lately.

However the regular coverage doesn't include the grading element involved or the requirement for high graded cards. Only in hobby centered articles or on hobby forums do they bring in the necessity for registered third party grading to qualify for these record prices.

Check these graded cards out E Bay #274727119093
The seller has a number of graded cards at eye watering prices
If this becomes reality we as collectors are doomed

quote:

Originally posted by piko:
Check these graded cards out E Bay #274727119093
The seller has a number of graded cards at eye watering prices
If this becomes reality we as collectors are doomed

I wouldn't worry about it, the same card is also being offered elsewhere at $20 and it looks good enough to me.

But playing along with it, that card is graded by SGC. Typically their name comes behind PSA and BGS and they have a slightly different grading scale. So if you have a couple of hundred thousand to spend on Silver Surfer, just know that your 10 may not be the best 10.

I've said it before and i will say it again. If all this catches on it is the fault of the buyers and nobody else. You can grade all you like and put whatever daft price on it you like but only the buyers can make these prices a reality.

So far, it still seems like it's a game just sports card sellers and speculators are playing. There might be a some non-sports card collectors picking up surprisingly cheap, graded non-sports cards as a novelty (or hedging their bets) but it just isn't something we look for. I haven't seen a graded card on a want list yet.

I have stumbled across graded non-sport promo cards for as little as $10 and they were actually decent deals just for the card but I'm not looking for an extra slabbed card beyond the ones that were slabbed by the manufacturer. They take up more space. The dealer might have had it graded with a bunch of sports cards, wanting to test the waters.

When all those Marvel Universe cards submitted for grading are returned and then put out for sale, the sound we hear will be a lot of gnashing of teeth because there won't be enough buyers among non-sports people. We already have those cards. The sports card people don't know Deadpool from Donatello so they won't buy high either. The sellers are going to have to hope for "the greater fool" or the casual collector who buys a little of everything. However, the guy who pays through the nose for something he doesn't know about has become much rarer than a Gem Mint Luka Doncic rookie.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
I've said it before and i will say it again. If all this catches on it is the fault of the buyers and nobody else. You can grade all you like and put whatever daft price on it you like but only the buyers can make these prices a reality.

I noticed a couple of threads on Blowout this morning in the Soccer and Basketball sections talking about how many cards in those markets are coming down in price -- some significantly.

It will be interesting to see if/how this impacts entertainment cards.

Based on how well Black Diamond has sold it seems there is currently a lot of money being spent on Marvel cards. . .

I do suspect that many of the PSA graded Marvel commons cards that were selling for insane money will come back to earth as PSA works through their backlog and more of these cards come to market.