I think the fundamental flaw -- at least what I can't wrap my head around is that people are willing to pay $1000+ for what PSA tells them is a 'perfect' copy of a very common card.

I don't understand.

That 'flaw' in my head extends too when I hear people talking about they've 'tuned their grading eye' so they can tell the difference between a PSA 9 and and PSA 10 -- if it is so hard to tell the difference (I generally can't tell the difference) then why do people care so much? Obviously at least some people care.

While the grading companies are the winners (and any seller taking a cut of the sale) there really are people out there pouring real money into these cards. How much would a graded 162 card PSA 10 MU1 set sell for? $50,000? $100,000? More?

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
It's impossible for non sport collectors to get stung by this sort of rubbish unless they allow themselves to be. People can grade what they like and put thousands on it and it is a waste of time until somebody buys into it, literally.

The most on point comment in this entire thread.

IMO, the whole grading scene is a con. A con to entice speculators into using their services, and a con to get collectors to pay more for cards that have imperceptible differences from one card to the next.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I think the fundamental flaw -- at least what I can't wrap my head around is that people are willing to pay $1000+ for what PSA tells them is a 'perfect' copy of a very common card.

I don't understand.

That 'flaw' in my head extends too when I hear people talking about they've 'tuned their grading eye' so they can tell the difference between a PSA 9 and and PSA 10 -- if it is so hard to tell the difference (I generally can't tell the difference) then why do people care so much? Obviously at least some people care.

I'll admit I am a 'condition sensitive' collector but there are limits. Looking at cards in the manner described above would just suck all the fun out of it for me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: X,

Because it was briefly mentioned here, an update. GameStop stock has fallen another 38% tp $53.50. It had hit a high of $347.51 on January 27th, before restrictions were imposed. It's actual average price in 2020, before the Reddit chat boards encouraged all the day traders to buy, was $14.43.

The people who thought this up may be fighting the evil hedge funds and their shorting ways, but I would guess that they were smart enough to buy in low and get out high. Many of those day traders that came in high and got stuck, either had no idea what they were doing and thought they hit paydirt or just got to greedy and waited too long. Now they are trying not to sell out into a black hole, but GameStop itself had a negative forecast. That's why it was being shorted by the hedge funds to begin with. Some people either have lost or will lose tens of thousands of dollars as they cash out. Thirty billion in market value has been erased and after-hour trading is down another 5% as of right now.

Chat boards and forum posts can make you and they can break you. There is going to be a lot of Wall Street fallout and rule changing over this because the Reddit stock boards have moved on to other companies and, perhaps a little bit like trading card collecting, investing in business stocks were never supposed to be so easily price manipulated or have such violent value swings.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

What are you talking about? How did we go from a Marvel card to GameStop?

Page 2, was sort of a comparison of cheap stock and cheap cards with surges in value because of mass buying, fueled over social media, for no substantive reason. Or at least that's my interpretation of it. Actually the GameStop stock story is fascinating. Shows what a Bizarro world we live in, if that wasn't apparent already.

You can find many similarities in the buying and selling in the collectible card market and the stock market. They are all little pieces of paper.

quote:

Originally posted by X:

I'll admit I am a 'condition sensitive' collector but there are limits. Looking at cards in the manner described above would just suck all the fun out of it for me.

Yeah, I was just reading on Blowout about a guy who uses 2 different magnifying glasses (I think he said 1 was 10x and the other was 20x) to look at cards before sending them to PSA.

If you can't see a flaw with your naked eye to me it isn't a flaw.

Welcome back card collectors!

Lots of different sets have came out since those early 1990’s Marvel products so . . .
sign up, log in, and join the discussions

Can’t wait to hear new stories

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:
What are you talking about? How did we go from a Marvel card to GameStop?

I brought it up basically as an example of an inflated price for a stock that was never worth it in the first place. Sort of like this Marvel card we are discussing.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:
What are you talking about? How did we go from a Marvel card to GameStop?

I brought it up basically as an example of an inflated price for a stock that was never worth it in the first place. Sort of like this Marvel card we are discussing.

I see your comparison. Someone noticed the short with Gamestop and pumped it to create the squeeze which forced the price to go up. Some people who don't know anything about stocks bought it and were left holding the bag now that it is about back where it started. That was only in a couple weeks.

Now big influencers on social media are pumping these cards as the next big thing and people with no knowledge are buying them up. When the market corrects itself there will be a bunch of people left holding the bag.

Same thing happened with some Soccer cards last year.

Something similar is happening on Ebay. People are up bidding on things and listing items at outrageous prices to boost the average price of relatively inexpensive cards.

The more I read the comments in the Grading section of Blowout, the more I realize that this is a completely different type of card market that is chasing the slab rating over the card.

I get the sellers, they are making money. I get the grading services, they are making money. As an autograph card collector I thought I understood the buyers, end buyers I mean, but I don't.

When they acknowledge that it's a $2 card being sold for $1,000. When they acknowledge that raw cards often have imperceptible condition differences between grades when slabbed. When they frequently voice all the various issues and complaints experienced when dealing with the grading services. When they know that specific people and places are pumping this whole movement up and only the titles and products change.

When they know all this and say all this, why the heck are they buying it anyway?

All you need is 2 accounts. Call the cards "rare", dont show the backs, raise the shipping costs and you can boost the price 10 times what they were going for.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The more I read the comments in the Grading section of Blowout, the more I realize that this is a completely different type of card market that is chasing the slab rating over the card.

Yep, from what I have seen so far these speculators have no interest in joining the entertainment card collecting hobby -- they only want to change it into . . . well speculating on PSA grades.

With certain collectors (mostly sports) it's all about owning the best. They want to own the best example of a card they can. And the professional grading companies are the standard used to determine what is the best. That's why a lot of people chase high grades and that's why the PSA Set Registry is so popular. Boys and their toys - mine is bigger and better than yours bragging rights. That's the bottom line a lot of times.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by X:

I'll admit I am a 'condition sensitive' collector but there are limits. Looking at cards in the manner described above would just suck all the fun out of it for me.

Yeah, I was just reading on Blowout about a guy who uses 2 different magnifying glasses (I think he said 1 was 10x and the other was 20x) to look at cards before sending them to PSA.

If you can't see a flaw with your naked eye to me it isn't a flaw.

In real life I deal with quality assessment and spend nearly all of my day using loupes (magnifying lenses) of various strengths. The point of looking in such detail is to assess condition, and determine quality of product, by identifying any damage and manufacturing issues. That said, the majority of all details seen under such magnification are not necessarily indicative of the aesthetic and functional properties needed to meet the needs of your ‘normal’ end user.

Just because some (i.e. very few) customers would also examine the product in a simialr way, with similar tools, does not mean that any detectable 'blemish' is in fact indicative of a quality issue, and that is the key point. Just because some people LITERALLY expect perfection, does not make that the norm, nor should unrealistic expectations skew the perception of acceptable standards that can influence enjoyment of the product.

What am I saying? Nothing is in fact perfect. Most things are mass produced, including trading cards. If you can't see a blemish/flaw, I completely agree that it really isn't a problem.

I have Judi Dench Bond card that is one of my favourites and has a small indentation mark on the front surface. Would I rather it was not there? Well yes, I'd rather it wasn't that rather it were, but you have to tilt in in certain light/angles to even see it. And given that I bought because it had one of the nicest recent examples of her signature, that is my main criteria for enjoyment. Besides, maybe the little mark was just on the sheet of card before it went to the printers? Maybe Dench dropped something on it when signing? Who knows?!? These things are produced in quantity and are handled by multiple people and packing machines. I could look until the end of time for a 'perfect' example that doesn't exist, and where is the fun in that?

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The more I read the comments in the Grading section of Blowout, the more I realize that this is a completely different type of card market that is chasing the slab rating over the card.

Yep, from what I have seen so far these speculators have no interest in joining the entertainment card collecting hobby -- they only want to change it into . . . well speculating on PSA grades.

This is it in a nutshell. The number 8, 9, or 10 at the top of a little slip of paper in a graded card case should not affect your enjoyment of the card itself. If it does, then it is not about the card.

In a perverse way, I enjoy reading the discussions on Blowout mainly because most on there seem oblivious to how hollow and shallow the atmosphere and conversation really is. If it's an autograph card being discussed, you won't hear people talk of their love for the actor, or the character, it's usually always just value of the card. Always looking to buy, to rip, to flip. And if the card was always to go out the door anyway, why not grade it if you can get some more money out of the situation?

The one really good thing about that lot is, ironically, in chasing $$$ they have an obsessive and unrelenting pursuit for details... I have never seen people so determined to calculate box/case counts, who know the set composition and distribution methods of certain inserts and hits, who track what 'big' cards have been pulled for certain sets by monitoring eBay, facebook, and YouTube, who stalk the secondary market to always know the current rate of everything. But I suppose if you want to pitch your sale prices high, it pays to know your market.

For people like me though, it can be a great source of info. if you just want to know about the product.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: X,

Well. . . these guys are really draining a lot of fun out of the hobby for me.

Every time I sign on to FB or Blowout there are endless discussions about grading, values, or questions from bewildered people asking 'what happened?'

It was amusing for a while, and it is already old.

I'm tired of hearing that certain cards are 'legendary,' when they aren't -- or at least weren't 2 months ago. The investing talk is . . . ugh, and the people talking like they know what they are talking about when they clearly know nothing about entertainment cards is exhausting.

On the plus side I've been looking for cards I picked up in packs on ePack to sell and some of the prices have done well. It seems that cards that are tied back to sports cards in some way (like PMGs) are increasing in value, but other cards I'd expect to jump in price (comic cuts) are not doing any thing.

Ohh, one guy on Blowout says he sold a raw Stan Lee common card from MU1 for $129. I sold off all of my base sets and commons before moving a few years ago -- if I hadn't I'd be looking to sell.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Well. . . these guys are really draining a lot of fun out of the hobby for me.

Every time I sign on to FB or Blowout there are endless discussions about grading, values, or questions from bewildered people asking 'what happened?'

It was amusing for a while, and it is already old.

I'm tired of hearing that certain cards are 'legendary,' when they aren't -- or at least weren't 2 months ago. The investing talk is . . . ugh, and the people talking like they know what they are talking about when they clearly know nothing about entertainment cards is exhausting.

I'm right there with you. It's all about the $$$$$$$$ and people are crawling out from every corner to chime in about "OMG this was selling for this and now it's worth 10x.... what should I invest in next?"

"Exhausting" is a great word to use. They're sucking all the enjoyment out of it.

Looking at the massively misleading PSA pop report it is interesting to see so many 10's that it wouldn't be considered rare if we were discussing any other card.

The 89 Griffey Jr Upper Deck Rookie has nearly 4000 10's and 25,000 9's. How many items did we see in the 90's that had these sort of advertised production numbers that are now collecting dust in bargain lots now? Meanwhile my Vin Diesel autograph card only had 250 made and he has never signed for another set, not even MARVEL.

Griffey 10 goes for $5k and Vin will sell for $450 on a good day.

I get that there is that line between Sports and Non Sports but there is no sense in any of this. The only modern Non Sports card I have seen go for $5k is truly a rare card.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

Ok, have admit.

My favorite ebay description for an inflated priced Marvel Universe common card is "PSA Ready!"

"Number 55 Juggernaut, Pack Fresh and PSA Ready!!! $21.95."

Can't help but think of Gloria Swanson. "I'm Ready for my Closeup Mr PSA"

Hilarious!