I find it ironic that the speculators are focused on cards that were massively overproduced in the 90s due to speculators.

It is one of the most obvious example of history repeating itself that I've ever seen.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
The 89 Griffey Jr Upper Deck Rookie has nearly 4000 10's and 25,000 9's. How many items did we see in the 90's that had these sort of advertised production numbers that are now collecting dust in bargain lots now? Griffey goes for $5k and Vin will sell for $450 on a good day.

The Ken Griffey 1989 Upper Deck rookie was one of those cards that ignated the sports card market. It was UD"s first card product, it was card #1 and Griffey Jr. was the hottest player around. Everyone, including me, was busting packs just to pull that card. And I did pull about 10 and still have them.

It reached a high of a little over $200 at its peak, which was huge for a current card back then and then it started it's slow decent. I don't know the price of an ungraded card now, but it could be had for $40 a couple of years back.

To pay $5,000 for a 10? For what? He's long retired, he was to injured most of his career or he could have been so much better and the card is not rare.

This is a very good discussion and it does open up to what is going on in a related, but separate card market. It does effect us, because these people are setting their sights on at least some non-sport cards.

Having said that, in trying to explain the motivation we are putting forth reasons and excuses and trying to apply some sort of logic.

I would submit that there is no logic or excuse. Anyone who pays $5,000 for a $40 card is a fool, whether they can afford to be a fool or not.

And now I'm going to go look for some cards.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

I believe part of the allurer of gradated cards is the perception that they will be around for a long time and remain in pristine condition. As opposed to RAW cards that are sitting in shoe boxes and will eventually be thrown out as junk.

The idea of grading was to differentiate the best cards. People will always be willing to pay more for the best and there needed to be some kind of way to show which is the best of the best.

But as more and more cards get graded and get a 9 or 10, there will then be an issue of which 10 is the best of the 10s and I fear eventually ratings will go a 1 - 100 scale and all the PSA 9s and PSA 10s will need to be sent back to PSA to be regraded to see if its a 98 or 99 or 100.

Why do people pay top dollar for a car or a painting when they can buy decent car for a fraction of the cost to drive to a museum to see some great art. Both options will get you to where you want to see what you want. But there are those who want to best and are willing to pay whatever it costs even if there are much cheaper alternitives

There is a lot of talk about condition, cards being bought by kids and mishandled cards on other boards. . . By the time these cards came out card supplies were widely in use. I don't recall these cards generally being bought by kids or mishandled.

I don't know production numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if all copies of a MU1 card were graded you would find more PSA10s than the entire production run for a specific common of some of the moderns sets.

quote:

Originally posted by AWR:
The idea of grading was to differentiate the best cards. People will always be willing to pay more for the best and there needed to be some kind of way to show which is the best of the best.

Why do people pay top dollar for a car or a painting when they can buy decent car for a fraction of the cost to drive to a museum to see some great art. Both options will get you to where you want to see what you want. But there are those who want to best and are willing to pay whatever it costs even if there are much cheaper alternitives

Very true, if I could afford a Porsche, I would trade in my Chevy and drive to the same places. There is nothing wrong with being able to afford the best. Here's why it doesn't apply to graded cards . . .

You are taking a common, relatively cheap card and allowing some third party, with a vested interest in it because they are making money, to not change a thing about that item except tell you the grade, and suddenly your Chevy is now worth the price of a Porsche.

It's not what you think is the best, it's what someone else is telling you is the best, based on the shifting and inconsistent sands of a PSA or whoever's evaluation. And people, whether they consider themselves card collectors, card investors, card speculators, card sellers or card buyers, have created a market for this knowing that they are solely at the mercy of the grader and they will openly say that they don't even trust the grading. At least until they get the gem-mint.

I know we are all in this hobby and people who don't collect cards think we are the balmy ones. Hey, you either have the gene or you don't, but I do believe that it shouldn't prevent us from calling out trends that shouldn't take hold because it hurts real collectors and it makes no sense, even to the balmy people.

"An important thing resulted: People stopped destroying valuable baseball cards. “Mom got too smart to throw these things out,” Berkus says. “We did not have a predator out there. And as a result of not having a predator, the dues we paid for that, were simple. Originals never lost their shelf life, so to speak. Nobody’s taking them out of the display case.” America hoarded little cardboard pictures on the off-chance they might gain in value. Actual scarcity was becoming a relic. The next step was to contrive it."

https://www.thebiglead.com/pos...er-deck-01dm60wnd3mg

Nice!

I've never been a fan of grading collectibles but whatever. To each their own.

Speculators driving up prices on non-sports cards and boxes like they have with basketball can't be a good thing for the hobby, in my opinion. The question is, are we at the start of a new normal for certain non-sports cards and sets or a bubble that'll pop at some point in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Johnson:
I've never been a fan of grading collectibles but whatever. To each their own.

Speculators driving up prices on non-sports cards and boxes like they have with basketball can't be a good thing for the hobby, in my opinion. The question is, are we at the start of a new normal for certain non-sports cards and sets or a bubble that'll pop at some point in the future?

I think that certain cards that have risen in price organically -- like Robert Downey Jr. autographs (and I have no idea if they've popped due to speculators in the last 90 days -- if they have that negates this) are going to retain their value. It is also possible that other rare cards will continue to be at elevated prices. . .

I personally don't see the prices of common Marvel 90s cards as being sustainable. Those cards are not rare, even in nice condition.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Johnson:
The question is, are we at the start of a new normal for certain non-sports cards and sets or a bubble that'll pop at some point in the future?

With the sheer volume of these cards that are being heralded right now, I don't know how it could sustain?

Things getting crazier and crazier. Now adults are hoarding Happy Meals at McDonalds to get pokemon cards

https://www.yahoo.com/news/adu...kemon-182833057.html

Wonder if PSA will grade these?

How did you pay for your kids college education? - From McDonalds Happy Meals

quote:

Originally posted by AWR:
Wonder if PSA will grade these?

Hahahaha! Is that a trick question? Of course they will.

I remember when the college education was going to be paid for by beanie babies.

It's because its Pokemon cards. Even most card collectors don't realize how rabid that market segment is for adults, unless they are actively following it.

Over the years I have amassed numerous promotional items from McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell as particular examples of my taste in fast food. Some of them are still tucked away in corners in mint condition 30 years later. Taco Bell chihuahuas that still talk, posable plastic figures, lots of glassware and a fair amount of sports cards. No matter how old, I don't think there is one thing I have that can't be found on eBay right now in multiples for less than $10, sometimes a lot less. The production supply of these items was huge and the demand is light.

But for this time when everyone is home with nothing to do, the Pokemon fans and card sellers can go out in force and make more cash than the price of the meal, especially selling in places where the promotion may not exist.

PSA will grade anything that doesn't move.

Hey Raven,

One of my friends goes to Japan twice a year on business and he picks up packs of their Pokemon cards for another friend in the U.S. That friend gets together with other collectors on Friday nights and they open Magic and Pokemon packs and play Magic and talk about that stuff. I guess it's a thing for 30-year-olds.

Years ago, I picked up cheap promos wondering if they'd be trade stuff later. No, not really. I sold what I had at some point.

Maybe I'll go to McDonald's tomorrow.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
It's because its Pokemon cards. Even most card collectors don't realize how rabid that market segment is for adults, unless they are actively following it.

quote:

Originally posted by AWR:
Things getting crazier and crazier. Now adults are hoarding Happy Meals at McDonalds to get pokemon cards

https://www.yahoo.com/news/adu...kemon-182833057.html

Wonder if PSA will grade these?

How did you pay for your kids college education? - From McDonalds Happy Meals

Didn't the same thing happen with Beanie Babies in Happy Meals back in the late 1990s?

Unrelated: CNN Business has an article about investment funds getting into sports cards and fractional trading of sports cards. Unreal. https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12...s-markets/index.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-...5:g:5PUAAOSwNqlgIInl

Well, maybe the hype is bleeding over to more rare items. I think this is the highest I have seen this one sell for.

Very interesting.

It is good to see this card get some love, and I actually don't think $500 is an outrageous price -- it could just be the beginning as the price definitely bumped up from previous sales.

That said the Stan Lee auto from Marvel Silver age is now 'worth' the same as a PSA10 Stan Lee common from MU1. . . so ?

I think the Lee auto is far more likely to sustain that price point -- but I keep getting surprised when it comes to grading.

I've been biting my tongue (or at least trying to) watching these threads on other boards about Marvel cards.

It is sort of fascinating watching people try to claim they are nostalgic for cards that they obviously know nothing about (so I call shenanigans on any nostalgia).

I don't get it. . . at all.

I wonder if they did the same thing to sports cards where they were (are?) just running around trying to basically drum up interest in random stuff.

The oddest thing to me is that they are chasing random common cards of specific characters -- that is a phenomenon that rarely happens in entertainment cards.

I hope my dealer friends are able to cash out on dusty boxes they've been hauling to shows for 2 decades.