quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I think that is pretty much it and nails the real definition of "rare" in the non sports autograph world. Travolta has become a regular...aside from his on card Battlefield Earth sig all the rest tend to get tossed into the same pile.

The odd thing to me is that most autograph card buyers don't seem to understand or even appreciate what true rarity is. True rarity is not a series of short printed, numbered cards like those Pop Century is cranking out. Especially using the stickers, the inventory can just be held back and slowly be released for years to come. It is the worst kind of artificial rarity because you don't know when or where there may suddenly be a dump.

True rarity is when the signer has appeared on only one or two cards in a limited amount and is unlikely to sign anymore because they are not included in other titled card products and/or are unlikely to agree to any generic stickers.

Now this is hard to predict over the long term because we have seen the floodgates open for many celebrities who were tough autographs for a long time. People like Gellar, Craig, Berry and Ford turned down many offers to sign cards, until they didn't. Their cards are still expensive, but I wouldn't call them rare. If you have the money, the cards are out there waiting for you, and they will continue to sign for the right price.

Contrast that to two of my favorite actors, the late Robbie Coltrane and Alan Rickman, who had many opportunities to sign licensed cards and always refused. We started discussing that in another thread. I can only think of Eva Green and Timothy Dalton as names I know continually refuse card makers. Sean Connery did too, but in his later years and mainly Bond put him off.

But rare and likely to stay that way is people like Maggie Smith, Julie Christie, Miranda Richardson and Angelina Jolie (although I'm not really sure she can be trusted). Rare is people that appeared under one specific title and probably won't be in another one with cards. Rare is people well known enough to be desired by a few, but not "hot". Rare is when you don't see the cards because they are in collections, not when you see them, but just can't afford them. Rare can often be bargains because their value is not measured by the resale, but just in the finding.

I wouldn't trust anybody signing for Leaf to be rare.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I can only think of Eva Green and Timothy Dalton as names I know continually refuse card makers.

Tom Cruise, Neil Armstrong (while he was alive).

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Either he is legitimately moving on or a bomb is about to drop.

Talking about the former Leaf CEO and one time owner Brian Gray, there is a rumor that has apparently been around for 3 or 4 months that Leaf may be on the sales block. PSA and Fanatics have both been mentioned as possible buyers.

I find it hard to believe that PSA is branching into making cards, when their business has been grading and authenticating them. Seems like some issues would come up.

On the other hand, Fanatics is loaded with cash and has been rumored to be looking at Panini, UD and Leaf. Personally I think they have been mucking up the non-sport titles they picked up from Topps, as well as their new ones, but it hasn't seemed to stop them so far. I would think UD would be a better target for Fanatics than Leaf, but as Gray has left in such a hurry, maybe he knows something we don't yet. Just speculation of course.

Is Gray no longer the owner of Leaf? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.

Also, are we sure he left in a hurry, or it just looks like he left in a hurry to collectors because we weren't expecting it? Per Gray he turned 50 and retired, and had been looking for a CEO to replace him for a while.

I have seen rumors of Fanatics buying Leaf, but I have no idea what Leaf owns that fanatics would want. I believe their only licenses are things like bowling and pickle ball, they don't have any 'brands' that would be in demand. . . the only thing they own that I would think another company may want would be some exclusive contracts. . . and maybe that is enough. . . but I think Fanatics could just start making their own version of the vast majority of what Leaf makes without having to bother trying to buy Leaf.

Also I think at some point Fanatics is going to have an anti-trust problem. . . I'm surprised they don't already with what they have done to Panini with the NFPLA license.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/...of-trading-card-deal

No expert on business structures but Leaf Trading Cards is an LLC. Brain Gray is routinely called Leaf's founder, which he is as it was established coming from switching over his Razor, but I don't see where he is specifically called Leaf's owner, although he could have been and maybe still is.

However, with an LLC the owner or owners typically carry some official title, like CEO or CFO. Since Gray resigned as CEO, and the last word from Leaf was to wish him "success with any and all future endeavors", it sounded like his future no longer had anything to do with the company, which would hardly be the case if he still owned it.

So I guess you could say his status is murky, unless someone here is a Leaf insider, but generally speaking, when a CEO steps down, they are usually voluntarily or involuntarily stepping out.

Pop Century 2023 was the first release I've bought much of in a long time -- and I basically stopped once the Ari Lehman stuff came out waiting for a response from Leaf.

Not sure if this is the current state of the postal service or just bad luck, but out of
~35 shipments
1 flat out lost in shipping.
1 returned to sender for no reason at all (the post office apologized)
1 was shipped on the 9th and still hasn't arrived. Tracking not updated in 3 days.
1 sent halfway across the country, then back to where it was originally shipped from, then back -- might be here tomorrow.

I basically resolved to spend, more or less, the cost of one box for singles I wanted. This way, it's not so much straight-out gambling which is what sealed Pop Century is these days, plus I didn't have to risk getting a no-photograph memorabilia card or worse, a chopped up concert ticket or backstage pass, all of which are some of the lamest cards ever made, particularly for a premium product.

I was about halfway through and then the unpleasantness with the Ari Lehman cards sort of dampened my enthusiasm, plus I got the one I really wanted (rarities like Clint Eastwood notwithstanding), so I'm probably good 'til next year. I might eventually get a couple more low-end ones.



Always happy to add a GOAT level talent to my collection, which Linda Ronstadt certainly is. Michael Beck might have played a huge part in ruining "Xanadu", but he was good in the "Warriors". Pete Davidson, well, I like "SNL. And the Jason jump-scare at the end of "Friday the 13th" remains one of the greatest ones of those in movie history. Whether Ari actually signed the sticker or not, I never expected to see that image on a trading card, so I'm still glad to have it.

That Ronstadt is a good pick up.

I was thinking about getting the Davidson until I saw it. That one is actually one of his better signatures. Most look like two unreadable letters, but the photo! I can't even post what he reminds me of in that getup. It would get tossed out. Just can't get passed it.

Grabbed a Ronstadt for $47 and a Simu Liu for $38. No reason to pay that crazy Shang Chi price.

I would never have guessed that was Linda Ronstadt, i thought it was Bonnie Raitt.

For anyone interested, I was told today that Pop Century Decadence is hitting the street at $1,000 a box and asked if I wanted to order? I said I didn't live on that street.

I know that the quick answer will be, oh those nameless sports card guys will buy it all up. But will they? If there are a couple 100 boxes maybe. If there are a couple 1000, not so much.

I really want to see how these new ones hit the market, because I have been pleasantly surprised about how affordable most of the signers in Pop Century 2023 Metal have been. Sure, you have a few exceptions and mainly that's been in the group of 1/1 cards. However, the large majority are within the range of anyone who really wants the autograph.

Now with only 3 cards per box, who is going to be in Decadence to warrant a $333.33 average? That sports card guy is buying to sell to someone, presumably the non-sport card collector. But Pop Century isn't anybody's "best card", unless they have never and will never sign for another card maker. The autographs are stickers of unknown quantity. The photos must be personal candids because no licensing has been obtained. The likelihood of pulling repeat signers is high.

If the signer has appeared, or even may appear in a licensed product, in character, the Pop Century autograph card will always be worth a fraction of the one carrying the proper copyrights. For example, Emilia Clarke has pretty expensive Pop Century signed cards, but they pale in comparison to each and every one of her on-card signed RA Game of Thrones cards, as they rightly should.

So how the heck does anyone accept the fact that the first non-sport card box of a newly minted product that breaks the $1,000 barrier, or at least comes the closest to breaking it, is a checklist of generic cards with stickers that doesn't even have a card set. I so want to see these cards on eBay, if anyone has the nerve to break. Sports card guys?

Decadence noun

moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury

Just when I couldn't hate metal cards any more now we have "Leaf's Holo-Dimensional technology!"

I don't know, seems like a kick in the balls knowing they shorted the main set of some tough pulls just so they could crank out another set. Not unexpected though.

I guess next year the Eastwood autographs will be extra super rare! Then in 2025 there will be the last chance Eastwoods! Then in 2026 there will be the holy crap we found a few more in the sofa Eastwoods.

Kinda like watching KISS do another farewell tour.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
I would never have guessed that was Linda Ronstadt, i thought it was Bonnie Raitt.

Yeah, she's rockin' that 90's puffy hair on that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I know that the quick answer will be, oh those nameless sports card guys will buy it all up. But will they?

They absolutely will. Then they'll try to get $300 for fake Ari Lehman autos.

Are there any 2023 Pop Century autographs that never sold below $1000? I think Clint may not have sold sub-$1000. Perhaps Culkin. Any others?

I just don't see how they can put $1000 of value in most boxes unless they are absolutely loaded, which will just drive down the prices of the autographs.

I've been thinking about the Ari Lehman situation. . . His easiest and most effective way to 'fight back' could be to submit VERO/counterfeit take down requests on eBay.

Of course that is only if he wants to do anything. Ultimately he's not out anything, it's only buyers who are being harmed.

So do you think the release of these signers who only have 1/1's has messed with collectors mindset about them?

Meaning do you think the 1/1 is important or how many 1/1's were actually signed? Just feels like that silly number on the card grew less significant over these.

I think card collectors tend to have a certain natural desire to own something with a 1/1 stamp on it, if only to feel that they can achieve that level of rarity. Then common-sense kicks in and they shrug their shoulders. Especially with Leaf, I think they really over did the stamping ranges in this last 2023 Pop Century and it made short prints a lot less special.

As for the 1/1s, collectors can't chase them for the obvious reason, so an abundance of 1/1s will not attract card collectors to purchase sealed boxes. I believe it turns them away and they switch to only targeted purchases of individual cards in their price range. The price range will trump any number range in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
So do you think the release of these signers who only have 1/1's has messed with collectors mindset about them?

Meaning do you think the 1/1 is important or how many 1/1's were actually signed? Just feels like that silly number on the card grew less significant over these.

The 1/1s are selling for more than non 1/1s -- see Lucy Hale for an example. She has a current 1/1 up for auction with a $123 bid, and a recent sales for $99 and $100 for a 1/1, but her regular autographs are $10-20ish. That may not be as significant of a difference in other Pop Century releases.

When I was buying I didn't care about the numbering at all. The first thing I looked for was the quality of the autograph, the 2nd was the photo/design.

I did notice that it was fairly common for an autograph to seemingly randomly sell for more than other autographs by the same signer. Sticking with Lucy Hale if you scroll through her 'sold' listings on eBay you'll notice that every now and then one will sell for way more than what you expect. i.e. on Sept 24th there are 4 sales for $13-20 (ignoring best offers since I don't know what they sold for), on September 23rd there is a sale for $15.50, but then 2 other sales one for $54 and one for $58.

I have no idea why these seemingly random autographs sell for way more than average.

I was just looking at the Allen and Ginter autographs in this year's set -- and I have to say to my surprise the Pop Century Lil Baby and Meek Mill autographs look 1000% better than the Allen and Ginter ones.

It pains me to say that as I'm a fan of Ginter, and I hate the Pop Century designs. . . in 2023 it seems like these card designers are competing for worst design. In the Ginter design there is nearly no space at all for a signature. In one Meek Mill I see currently on eBay he signed right across his face. . .

Nice job Fanatics.

2023 Leaf Decadence Pop Century is out on ebay and Cardboard Connection has the checklist. No need for another thread, I don't notice one signer who didn't have at least a few 1/1s in the regular 2023 Pop Century Metal. Many are simply repeats from 2023, as well as other prior editions.

What they do have is a lot of dual and triple autograph cards of the same people in whatever related combo Leaf could make up. "Have Stickers Will Travel" would have been a more appropriate name than "Decadence".

Early comments from those sports card guys over at Blowout seem pretty negative for them. I guess they don't see a lot of profit here for any case buyers, but I would make one comment about the sour grapes remarks.

They are now calling Pop Century unlicensed cards and that is unfair. If a card doesn't need a license, that's not the same thing as an unlicensed card. Leaf/Pop Century has walked the line and doesn't mention work titles or use photos that feature characters, generally speaking. If anyone is having their copyright infringed on, it's out in the open for them to handle. Autograph signers are paid in some manner for all those stickers.

Call them secondary autograph cards for sure, if there are signatures from titled products already deemed "best" cards, but they are not unlicensed, and the autographs are certified in much the same way as all other card makers do it too. So lets not cast aspersions on all those other Pop Century products. No three cards picked blind are worth this much money in my opinion, but for those who take the chance, don't try to discredit the cards if you lose. You know what they are and what they are not, and they are still legitimate when they don't require a license.