Yeah tons can happen in the final two episodes.....Looking forward to them!
Also what Brienne will do about Sansa at Winterfell and hopefully Reek has the ability to bounce back and finally begin to make amends for his past misfortunes. Could also see a surprise visit from the Greyjoys in the final two.

Agreed - Episode 9's have been the best in each season thus far. I was pleasantly surprised with the Battle of Hardhome appearing in the 8th slot. So surprised I had to watch it again last night . Should be very interesting to see if Episode 9 contains one or more of the following: Battle of Winterfell, KL Trial(The Mountain awakening???) or the Meereen Fighting Pits.

Glad they had that Battle in ep 8 as the previous 7 were action-lite.

Yeah those Wight children were awesome! Next bring on White Walker City........Ice Spiders perhaps.......

Ok, being a noob in the books (just started this week) my only thoughts with the scenes of outrage in question are:

1. Ramsay is acting within character that we the audience know but Sansa is ignorant of.

2. It was filmed with some taste and not the full frontal face smash that we can sometimes get with this show.

3. As with Joffrey, this is another level that will make us (the audience) appreciate even more the demise of Ramsay when it comes. (of course this is an assumption based on logic and not on the written story)

I know something you don't know (It was taken off of IMDB just the other day). I aint tellin' either!

quote:

Originally posted by willgull:
I know something you don't know (It was taken off of IMDB just the other day). I aint tellin' either!

Oh come on, the title says Spoilers!

True, but you'd have to have a rock in the place where your heart should be to give this one away...

Smoothly done It would be a fun one, I just wouldn't credit the IMDb as the most accurate of places at all times.

I know we're five years down the line, but still curious what ever became of Benjen Stark. I haven't read the books though I'm well versed through synopses via various wikis (yeah, I know...) but I know the prevailing theory in the books is supposedly that another mysterious character is actually Benjen, and I can only assume this character hasn't turned up on screen because it would be difficult to maintain any ambiguity if you use the same actor and any revelation would spoil it before the book, but still... feel like that's a loose end since he started off the show relatively prominent. Even awol in autograph card form!

Perhaps winter IS coming. Out here in California, there's been some bitingly cool weather for this time of year. It dipped down in the 70's today during those few minutes when the sun was behind a cloud. Brrrr.....

We're bundled up already, and eagerly awaiting tomorrow's episode 9, but I can't chat much in the meantime. On the west coast, for fashion reasons, we only have fingerless gloves, and my hands are too cold to type.

Don't get your hopes up regarding that person being hinted at, the showrunners have repeatedly stated that they don't plan to use that arc or character on the show.

It would certainly seem not...

Episode 9:
Davos will not be pleased, to say the least, but he knew this was going to happen to Shireen. He knew it when he said goodbye. It was heartbreaking, and pitch perfect, one of the finest moments, acting wise, on this series yet. The same thing would've happened before, to Gendry, if Davos hadn't sent him away. Davos' only way to save Shireen was to try to kill Stannis and Melisandre before he left. He did not, and understandably did not try. Your fingers, your sons, your reading teacher and best friend. It's rough trade, being the Onion Knight!

(Book note, no real spoilers, just comparison): At this point in the books, more or less, Davos is actually seeing the money lenders on behalf of Stannis far, far away from the North. It's not going well. Little Shireen, her mother, and Melisandre remain at the Wall, not even with Stannis, and there is no Ramsay Bolton "20 man attack" on Stannis' camp. Also, Dany is not attacked at the Fighting Pits, but Drogon does show up with a similar finish. Tyrion is there but hasn't met Dany yet. Sam and Gilly are sailing South to the citadel as Sam is to be the new Maester when he is fully trained in the various arts. They have Mance's baby and have left Gilly's in it's place, something that most likely won't happen, given that Mance was killed on the series, but is alive (in a different body, warg stuff) in the books. Jamie is sent far away elsewhere, nowhere near Dorne, basically as a punishment from his sister. Bronn is not in any of these stories, so clearly, the actor and writers have made that character popular enough to be given lots more to do than in the books. What's happening in Dorne in the books pretty much only has to do with Dornish people and Myrcella, daughter of Jamie and cersei. There's a lot of Iron Islands Greyjoy stuff that has been almost totally lost, but some of that may still be adapted for Season 6 of the show. I hope so. Aren't people at all curious to know the meaning of the Greyjoy House Words: "What is Dead can Never Die"? I know I was, and I was not disappointed when I read it in Book 4, I think it was. Theon's intense Uncle "Damphair" lets us know. He makes Theon's father, Balon, seem cuddly by comparison. I'd love to see him on the show,

Martin is a superb writer, even when he goes off on tangents, sometimes even more so when he goes off on tangents. Not so good for TV, but great for fancy book readin'. Book 6 will be here very soon, though, and should have some of these Season 5 TV happenings in it, elaborated on, and then go somewhat beyond.

[Spoilers]
I feel like she's had a bit of a target on her forehead since the Season 5 trailer showed Selyse crying in the snow. And, it's not as if it wasn't already implied since the Melisandre bath tub scene with Selyse back in Dragonstone. It was a gut-wrenching scene, but I don't feel like it came out of nowhere. I feel its main purpose was to re-demonise Stannis prior to any altercation with Brienne (a character that bores me a bit at the moment), but I was rooting for the chap before this. Exactly who is Stannis's heir now that he keeps offing his family? Actually, who is Daenerys' heir?

Also: Davos has some bloody quick carpentry skills for a man with a bit of a finger handicap

Love Daario's expressions when things didn't work out like he assumed in both the opening fight, and Hizdahr's membership of the Harpys.

I'm not really sure what to make of the Dorne scenes, to be honest. I feel like Sansa's storyline has been the one that's interested me most this season and I hope it pays off in the finale!

Some of the descriptions of the latest casting calls are widely speculated to be the Greyjoys, so looks like that's coming (as well as Randall Tarly.)

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
Episode 9:
Davos will not be pleased, to say the least, but he knew this was going to happen to Shireen. He knew it when he said goodbye. It was heartbreaking, and pitch perfect, one of the finest moments, acting wise, on this series yet. The same thing would've happened before, to Gendry, if Davos hadn't sent him away. Davos' only way to save Shireen was to try to kill Stannis and Melisandre before he left. He did not, and understandably did not try. Your fingers, your sons, your reading teacher and best friend. It's rough trade, being the Onion Knight!

This may make good TV for some, but I dislike it when writers change the plot at the drop of a hat and have people do things that are completely out of character just to advance a storyline or create a surprise. If Davos suspected what was going to happen to the child, wouldn't he have tried to act to prevent it? Wouldn't he have tried even if he knew he would fail? He did before for someone he hardly knew. He knows what Melisandre is capable of doing. Yet he just leaves on his errand.

Stannis is another story. Given his faith in Melisandre it is not really a surprise that he would agree to this, yet the writers softened him up this season and added a couple of touching scenes that apparently aren't in the books, at least not yet. All this just to make him turn right around and revert to old form and worse. That's just manipulation to produce a heartbreaking scene that really wasn't so heartbreaking. Stannis has sold his soul to be King, he cares for no one, so all that wonderful talk with his daughter was merely a distraction to fool the viewers.

Don't get me wrong, everyone including me will now be waiting to see Stannis get his, but we are knee deep in villains here. They are going to have to knock multiples of bad guys and gals off in every episode that's left if we are to get the pleasure of seeing them all die in the manner that they deserve.

My girlfriend is of the opinion that Davos was hoping for the best, haha.

And don't be too sure about Stannis getting his just desserts, he may still end up a King when this is done. The Lord of Light has spoken!

The interesting thing about the Stannis situation is that Shireen herself basically gave him permission to do it. The books go into the mindset of Stannis more so than the show does and what we learn about him is that Stannis is all about duty above all else, even family. He doesn't seek the throne because he desires power, he does so because he is Robert's rightful heir (since Robert has no legitimate offspring) and sees being king as a duty that he must carry out. Stannis is very hard headed and driven about duty, honor and whatnot to the point of being willing to do whatever it takes to fulfill that role. Add to this the fact that he has taken on a very fanatical religious person as his chief adviser and that he has seen her demonstrate abilities beyond those of normal folks. Stannis is desperate at this point and sees Melisandre and her god as the way to throne. He sent Davos away to keep him from interfering (and likely to keep Davos from having to watch what happened, as Stannis does have a tiny little bit of heart in there somewhere). It was clear during the scene between Stannis and Shireen where they were talking about the book that she really wanted to help her father fulfill his duty by doing whatever was necessary. You could see that he was conflicted about it up until that moment when she basically signed her own death warrant by eagerly agreeing to help him by doing what he needed of her (sadly, not knowing just what he wanted her to do). Stannis chose duty over family and that is consistent with his character, even if the choice seems unconscionable to most of us. He may yet win the throne but the cost was his soul.

So we are a long way from the finish, but speaking only with what the TV audience knows at this point, any ending but Dany on the throne and Tyrone as adviser and head of his family will be a major disappointment. However I consider it entirely possible that one of them may be killed off, just not both.

I think both of you can just forget about Stannis after last week, if you really think he can still be King. He did have the potential to at least appear to be a dark horse up until then, but if the series ended with him on the throne people would be throwing out their DVDs.

I'm still wanting Arya to end up on the Iron Throne (with the Hound as her Kingsguard & Tyrion as her Hand). Also, Jon Snow should remain with the Night's Watch and Dany remain ruling where she is now, but now as an ally to those in Westeros.

I'm sure Arya will have a key role to play, as will her sister, but I know not where. As far as getting to the throne, everyone seems to need to have that royal blood somewhere, and I don't think Ned Stark had it. He was just a loyal soldier and friend to the King and he got his own place out of it. At least I think that was it, if I can remember back to Season One. So unless one of the girls marries a King, that's as close as they will get. Only Dany has the royal connection to sit on the throne as a female.

The thing that I suspect, and perhaps as a book reader you might know what direction this is going in, is that we really don't know where Jon Snow came from. Mother is a mystery and Ned Stark is the father. I am thinking that Stark may not have been the actual father and that a royal connection might turn up there yet.

There are a lot of options left for the writers, but they want the residuals and continued DVD sales so they are going to put one of the good guys on the throne at the end, but they may kill off several getting there.

It's been long believed by book readers that Rhaegar Targaryen (Dany's nearly perfect other brother) and Ned Stark's sister, Lyanna, are Jon Snow's real parents. The way people have named the theory without outright spoiling things for people who may not want to know is "R+L=J".

It has not been confirmed in the books, but it's well known that when Martin was meeting with the HBO showrunners to OK the series, his decision to do so was based on their being able to correctly name Jon Snow's real parents, which, obviously, they were able to. That's gives a lot of credence to the "R+L=J" theory since they otherwise would've had to have come up with an answer contrary to what most of the book readers had themselves divined.

As for the Starks having no claim on the Throne, I don't think the Targaryens had any lineal claim on it either when their family first ascended to it, nor did the Baratheons. They got it when Jaimie killed the Mad King and Robert slew Rhaegar, his heir, and the Mountain, his wife and children.

As for the rise of the Targaryens, dragons on your side are very helpful in that arena, but towards the end of their 300 year reign, the magic had gone out of the world, and the dragons had pretty much died out. It returned with Dany emerging from the fire with the hatchlings and has now grown very powerful indeed, setting up the big winter showdown between the ancient forces.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
So we are a long way from the finish, but speaking only with what the TV audience knows at this point, any ending but Dany on the throne and Tyrone as adviser and head of his family will be a major disappointment.

I disagree - I think it's fairly clear that Jon Snow's journey is incredibly important, and in my view he's proven himself more of a leader than Daenerys has. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer Daenerys as a character as well as her storyline more often than not, but as Tyrion points out last week she doesn't have any real knowledge about Westeros or the people she intends to rule and realistically that's not a great trait. Even Joffrey knew his environment better than she does prior to his rule. I do think she will get very close to the throne, and very probably sit on it, but I think assuming the story would end with this is maybe a bit premature - I'm certain the series would not just end on Daenerys acquiring the throne so much as then showing her do what she does best - break society's boundaries - and the biggest of those in Westeros is quite clearly the segregation of the wildlings. We've already seen from an early stage that she doesn't look down on 'savages' as a lower class of people, and she was quite an effective ruler of them and a good deal of them loved her. Plus, of course, we've seen through Osha, Gilly and several others that there is nothing inherently wrong with them as people that justifies the effective racism. Hence there is no way I could picture her allowing the Wall to remain in tact and that itself is important - it would make the Night's Watch redundant (or the very least need to be repurposed) and probably would release the watch from their oaths - literally the only thing blocking the Sam/Gilly relationship evolving, if nothing else - and if Jon was released from his oath I'm sure he'd end up in a high position. I know what the popular theory regarding him is, and I think there's synergy with what I've just written. Also, I wasn't joking earlier when I asked who exactly is Daenery's heir if all Targaryens were massacred, that's a serious question that I'd like to know. She could quite easily do an Elizabeth I and rule alone without issue (I believe following the Witch/Drogo/Baby incident she is now meant to be infertile is she not?) but as a precedent goes, you know, her successor was the King of Scotland (we all know the parallels with Westeros and the UK, right?) and through him England and Scotland became united. I just don't think the series or the books would end without addressing what would happen after Daenery's rule ends, and I think Jon is maybe a more capable ruler if he's still around and released from his oath.

EDIT: I was trying to be vague about the R+L=J theory but now that it's in the thread, I think Jon will succeed Daenerys and THAT is where I think it'll end.

quote:

I'm sure Arya will have a key role to play, as will her sister, but I know not where.

See, this is the one thing I'm stuck on - I just can't think what importance Sansa serves to the end game. I heard a theory recently regarding Bran which I'm now convinced of unequivocally, and Arya's path I think is probably to turn her into more of a Brienne type character - leader of the eventual Queensguard perhaps? But with Sansa it feels like she was there mostly to show how cruel the world can be and her maturity to serve as a gauge of how much the series evolves from start to end - rewatching the first few episodes of Season 1 is amazing to see how naïve she is. I can picture her in charge of the north but I don't think there'll be much focus on her as there is on Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion and Arya - all of whom are 'underdog' characters and if anything I think the overall message of the series will be the triumph of the underdog against all odds. Possibly this is why there's more flexibility in Sansa's storyline, I don't know, but it's the one I find the most exciting because I just have no theories about her.

(I was also being serious re: Stannis's heir. I think I once heard that Robert had claim to the throne on the basis of an ancestral connection to the Targaryens so would Daenerys and Stannis actually be close to succeeding each other? I have very little basis on this and just want some clarification if anyone knows)

Bran the Superwarg, especially with the boost his powers are getting now, should have the ability to control one or more dragons at a time, so that might also play into it. The last time we saw him, the old man/tree being did tell him that he would never walk again, but that he would fly. Wonder what he meant by that?