quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

There are The Twilight Zone signers and then there is everybody else.

Is there an arguement to make that it is predominatly older people vs younger and the older people providing the nicer signatures.

No, no argument from me. That's it, plus older actors who may not be that active anymore still take pride in their autographs and respect the fans that may still want them.

Another thing I noticed while watching of all things a commercial on NFL stars writing letters to deployed military for Thanksgiving, some of the handwritten letters were printed. Younger people don't write or read much that is in cursive script. They pay bills electronically and don't write checks. They send emails and tweets. In short, they have no practice in what used to be called longhand writing.

Is it any wonder that people under a certain age have lousy signatures, when they were never taught to care?

Plenty of sketches and printing plates sell in the $80-150 range (or higher).

From the breaks I am seeing Cryptozoic has lived up to what they promised in this release. Outside of some unfortunate breaks I'm not sure what there is to complain about. . .

I get that people wanted more 'value' out of the breaks, but the checklists were published, and more Gadot autographs were produced than people were expecting. . . I'm not sure where people expected more value to come from. . .

And to be honest I'm actually surprised at how high some of the cards are selling for -- I mean the guy from Flash was selling for $600 -- I don't even know his name. At $600 that firmly puts him in the top tier of non-sport autographs.

Also, I think people would get more value out of what they were selling if they weren't so quick to slash the prices. . . I am watching for a couple of autographs and each seller seems to list them for cheaper than the last...

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Finally, by all accounts he seems like a nice guy who, at least so far, is hard working without any scandals.

He's a nice guy so long as no one talks to him. I have no idea if he continues to be when someone does, because he doesn't allow that

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Finally, by all accounts he seems like a nice guy who, at least so far, is hard working without any scandals.

He's a nice guy so long as no one talks to him. I have no idea if he continues to be when someone does, because he doesn't allow that

Are you talking about something that happened at a personal appearance? I can't find any stories, but its always fun to hear the impressions people get when they meet celebrities, even at those arranged events. Some don't know how to deal with the public very well, so do tell if you've met him.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Are you talking about something that happened at a personal appearance? I can't find any stories, but its always fun to hear the impressions people get when they meet celebrities, even at those arranged events. Some don't know how to deal with the public very well, so do tell if you've met him.

Not so much a specific incident, just the way he approaches personal appearances. He has loud music playing at all times so that no one can talk to him. While signing autographs - which are done in a walled-off section, not out in the open at a table - while doing photo-shoots, and even while walking between them.

The only complaints this tends to lead to are that portion of the autograph/photo buying public who are the clingy, must ask a silly question, need to pretend they're on first name terms, types, who get upset that they get no "quality time" when they "meet" him.

Personally, I approve. It's efficient from his point of view, he just signs and moves people on, maximum throughput = more money at $100+ a pop, and there's honestly nothing more irritating than waiting in line two/three times longer than necessary because someone won't shut up and move along

Oh, that's not so bad, I thought I was going to hear a "complete jerk" story. The loud music is probably supposed to show he's a laidback dude.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Oh, that's not so bad, I thought I was going to hear a "complete jerk" story. The loud music is probably supposed to show he's a laidback dude.

Haha, no, I've come across no horror stories. Just whiners who wanted a hug or something.

The music is intentional to stop people talking and move them along quickly. I think he does dedications, but only the standard kind with a name taken from a sticky note. Otherwise, it's sign, next, sign, next. Dude wracks up the bucks at these things.

As I say, I prefer it. Other top names at these things have queues so long, and are so slow, a lot of people don't get a chance at all.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Plenty of sketches and printing plates sell in the $80-150 range (or higher).

From the breaks I am seeing Cryptozoic has lived up to what they promised in this release. Outside of some unfortunate breaks I'm not sure what there is to complain about. . .

I get that people wanted more 'value' out of the breaks, but the checklists were published, and more Gadot autographs were produced than people were expecting. . . I'm not sure where people expected more value to come from. . .

And to be honest I'm actually surprised at how high some of the cards are selling for -- I mean the guy from Flash was selling for $600 -- I don't even know his name. At $600 that firmly puts him in the top tier of non-sport autographs.

Also, I think people would get more value out of what they were selling if they weren't so quick to slash the prices. . . I am watching for a couple of autographs and each seller seems to list them for cheaper than the last...

Agree with this. Can we critique every release that comes out and how to improve it, of course. At this point I would take this over Star Wars Masterworks. I think the real question is going to be where do they go from here? If there is another DC CZX set is the focus on another set of movies? The focus on this release was more the Justice League end of the DC movie universe. They could go Nolan Batman, Watchmen, Suicide Squad.

Personally I hope the next DC release is a higher end comic version like Marvel Masterpieces, not a CZX comic version.

quote:

Originally posted by ifish73:
Agree with this. Can we critique every release that comes out and how to improve it, of course. At this point I would take this over Star Wars Masterworks. I think the real question is going to be where do they go from here? If there is another DC CZX set is the focus on another set of movies? The focus on this release was more the Justice League end of the DC movie universe. They could go Nolan Batman, Watchmen, Suicide Squad.

Personally I hope the next DC release is a higher end comic version like Marvel Masterpieces, not a CZX comic version.

That is a great question. . . I have no idea where they go from here (although I'd really suggest they put 'DC' in the product title -- CZX Super Heroes & Super-Villains is a mouthful and it's impossible to search on eBay. Why is super-villains hyphenated and super heroes is not? Also both wikipedia and the dictionary list both superheros and supervillains as single words -- no spaces or hyphens. . . but I digress).

To me, DC doesn't seem as much of a cohesive universe like Marvel is. I know it is supposed to be, but it just isn't. Like in this set -- why is there a single autograph from Shazam!, but no Shazam! Film cells (are there base Shazam! cards? Doesn't seem like it).

I personally would like to see them stick with the actor autographs since that's what I collect.

I'm curious to what their license covers. . . If their license covers TV as well as film I think it would be cool to do an all encompassing character set. . . for example if they did Batman I'm guessing they could get Keaton to sign (since he signed for Spiderman), Kilmer is a good signer, get some of the cast from the Batman TV shows, Gotham, etc.

The issue with this product is the price and whether the average box is worth that price? AVERAGE BOX, because that is what most people will get in a blind buy. What happens on the secondary market is more the concern of dealers and selling breakers, because that is where they will make profits or have to eat losses. So in discussing the product, the idea of value varies between a collector/buyer and a dealer/seller.

I think this is always true for every card release, but the more boxes/cases cost the more you have to lose on that AVERAGE box if the value doesn't improve over the normal standard. By that I mean, if you get an $8 autograph in a $70 box, you are not happy. If you get a $20 autograph card in a $250 box, you are mad.

If its constructive critique that CZE needs, because they will surely try to put out a series 2 on this, its that they need mid-level autograph signers. They need autographs that will sell between $60 - $120 per card. Yes there are printing plates and sketches in this product and they are selling in that range. Great for collectors whose primary interest is printing plates. Great for sketch collectors, assuming you get a good one and you like the subject, as art is much more attuned to taste. Yes there are base cards and numbered cards, but most people are not hand making the set and the complete set can be bought for a lot less than its parts.

More to the point, I and many other people buy products mainly based on the autograph checklists and most of us know not to expect to pull the best autograph in the mix, but there are other signers we like, others of some value and its worth the risk.

If CZE wants to do this again, it needs to have other autographs we like and others of some mid-range values. If you don't get a $50 card, the pack has to have at least 2 common signers or that printing plate that isn't guaranteed or something else to make up for it that is not a manufactured and fake film cell. Either that or lower the darn price. You can't stick people with a value gap close to $150 box, even if they have no intention of ever selling. They will get mad. It's that simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The issue with this product is the price and whether the average box is worth that price? AVERAGE BOX, because that is what most people will get in a blind buy.

I don't think this product is designed for box buyers, and if you look at the box breakdowns far more people are posting case breaks than box breaks.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The issue with this product is the price and whether the average box is worth that price? AVERAGE BOX, because that is what most people will get in a blind buy.

I don't think this product is designed for box buyers, and if you look at the box breakdowns far more people are posting case breaks than box breaks.

That's on Blowout, where many posters are dealers or part time sellers that keep some cards for themselves and try to get their money back selling the rest. I understand what you mean, but you can't remove the non-sport card collector from the non-sport card market because he/she won't plunk down $1,600 a case. When these cards hit the secondary market a collector still has to buy them at some point for the seller to make money, unless the idea is to cultivate an endless chain of flippers. That won't work because a card price will hit peak at some time and non-sport collectors just aren't as crazy as sport card collectors. Thank goodness.

The prediction that sooner or later dealers/sellers will find themselves in the position where they can't find buyers for boxes because of the value gap and they can't afford to risk breaking them open themselves has been posted on Card Talk by many people before, including myself. It's the logical conclusion to the perfect storm card manufacturers are creating in a collectibles market, when the collector is no longer seen as the primary customer.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by ifish73:
Agree with this. Can we critique every release that comes out and how to improve it, of course. At this point I would take this over Star Wars Masterworks. I think the real question is going to be where do they go from here? If there is another DC CZX set is the focus on another set of movies? The focus on this release was more the Justice League end of the DC movie universe. They could go Nolan Batman, Watchmen, Suicide Squad.

Personally I hope the next DC release is a higher end comic version like Marvel Masterpieces, not a CZX comic version.

That is a great question. . . I have no idea where they go from here (although I'd really suggest they put 'DC' in the product title -- CZX Super Heroes & Super-Villains is a mouthful and it's impossible to search on eBay. Why is super-villains hyphenated and super heroes is not? Also both wikipedia and the dictionary list both superheros and supervillains as single words -- no spaces or hyphens. . . but I digress).

To me, DC doesn't seem as much of a cohesive universe like Marvel is. I know it is supposed to be, but it just isn't. Like in this set -- why is there a single autograph from Shazam!, but no Shazam! Film cells (are there base Shazam! cards? Doesn't seem like it).

I personally would like to see them stick with the actor autographs since that's what I collect.

I'm curious to what their license covers. . . If their license covers TV as well as film I think it would be cool to do an all encompassing character set. . . for example if they did Batman I'm guessing they could get Keaton to sign (since he signed for Spiderman), Kilmer is a good signer, get some of the cast from the Batman TV shows, Gotham, etc.

I believe the license covers comic, TV and movie. When I talked to them at the Philly show this past fall I mentioned that I was disappointed that they weren't going to make any more TV products (was hoping for a Black Lightning set). Mentioned that maybe they could try an Arrowverse set so they could still cover the TV shows but in a more compact way. They said they talked about it and never mentioned not having the license anymore.

I know they still have the comic license but the TV and now movie releases are more popular so they haven't bothered with a comic set in a few years besides Bombshells.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

That's on Blowout, where many posters are dealers or part time sellers that keep some cards for themselves and try to get their money back selling the rest. I understand what you mean, but you can't remove the non-sport card collector from the non-sport card market because he/she won't plunk down $1,600 a case. When these cards hit the secondary market a collector still has to buy them at some point for the seller to make money, unless the idea is to cultivate an endless chain of flippers. That won't work because a card price will hit peak at some time and non-sport collectors just aren't as crazy as sport card collectors. Thank goodness.

The prediction that sooner or later dealers/sellers will find themselves in the position where they can't find buyers for boxes because of the value gap and they can't afford to risk breaking them open themselves has been posted on Card Talk by many people before, including myself. It's the logical conclusion to the perfect storm card manufacturers are creating in a collectibles market, when the collector is no longer seen as the primary customer.

Between Blowout and Card Talk (not sure of any other sources for breakdowns) there have been 31 cases (186 boxes) and 8 individual box breaks posted. Note -- 11 of the case breakdowns are in a group break.

Only 3 boxes out of 194 total boxes broken were posted on Card Talk.

I think the view of the hobby/market strongly depends on what site people read the most, there are obviously different viewpoints on Blowout than what you find here.

If you are a manufacturer clearly targeting the market where you sold 191 boxes is better business than where you sold 3 boxes.

It seems to me that this product is squarely aimed at case buyers, dealers and case breakers -- not the end person buying a base set or a couple individual cards, and I don't think that is a problem in the least.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

I brought 2 boxes and hit a Gadot so I was happy but I brought it from a dealer I trust who opened the case in front of me but I can see where single box buyers would be hesitant. If it were not for case breakers this hobby could be finished it is a shame but that is the way things are for modern cards.

Well, the furore over this one is not at Outlander levels, it seems. When that set landed, people were spending $40 and up on every minor name.

Last night, I won three of the more common autographs from this set at auction for a combined $29. I couldn't get near a single Outlander autograph for a reasonable price.

One of the three was $3. Imagine if that's the autograph you pulled from your box...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ravenheart,

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
One of the three was $3. Imagine if that's the autograph you pulled from your box...

Want a bigger worry, someone sold a Cavill for just a little over $600. The thought is that some of these case breakers went into credit to pick up these cases and they have a short window to get something back, so some are panicking.

You know I never thought about anyone except a business maybe floating large credit to buy trading cards. Amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Want a bigger worry, someone sold a Cavill for just a little over $600. The thought is that some of these case breakers went into credit to pick up these cases and they have a short window to get something back, so some are panicking.

You know I never thought about anyone except a business maybe floating large credit to buy trading cards. Amazing!

To be expected because he's more common in every respect, but the Jason Momoa's are going for as little as 1/3 of that.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
Well, the furore over this one is not at Outlander levels, it seems. When that set landed, people were spending $40 and up on every minor name.

I can get that. It's for the same reason I keep buying Game of Thrones, even when they put out Inflexions and I'm like, no this is too much. When you are a fan of the movie/show and you are already invested in other sets, you have a desire to continue. You may scale back, but you are leaving a gapping hole in your collection if you don't get some of it.

That is not the case with this set because it has pulled in so many elements of the DC world that it is too broad. While the autos are most heavily into JLA, the sketches are all different DC characters, some of which are minor. The sketch quality is not universally above average, as every one of them should be, and the film cells are a joke. Printing plates are nice extras, but I have yet to met someone who only chases plates.

More to your point about Outlander, CZE was smart enough to lay the groundwork before it hit collectors over the head with that last one. So they are willing to do $40 on minor autos because they are already hooked, much like me and GoT. That's not the situation here. This is the first big DC universe product and no one is invested in it. Collectors are likely to pick up favorite individual cards over time and won't feel deprived to not get more or the prices will drop low enough so that they can get more if they wait.

No one appears to have publicly reported pulling one of the five Gadot/Cavill dual autograph cards as yet. It's of course possible that a couple were pulled and the owners just don't care to disclose it. One thing about having such a high priced product is that a 10 year old kid probably won't be waving any around.

But that also reminds me that, while we have added up the numbers for all the different signers as released, it's reasonable to assume that some of each card design was withheld as replacements for damaged or missing hits. So all 5 duals may not have been seeded, just as a certain number of all the other autographs may not have been seeded either.