Reported on another site, the release date is next week, 11/22/19. The estimate seems to be in the low 700s for cases and mid 4000s for boxes, but I think that's someone with a calculator and the hit odds.

I do like nearly all the sketches I've seen, admittedly they must be the best ones. Still, having sprung for GoT Inflexions I would have probably gone in for some of this at the same price. While its not out of the question financially speaking, like Stellar for example, I just can't see it as a blind buy.

The sketches, aside from the quality even, are drawing from a large group of characters and movies, so you may get a character that you don't like. The common autographs will be available on eBay as soon as the first box is opened and will not be in great demand, just like all other common hits.

So the only way to justify the purchase is to pull one of the 5 autograph cards you may not be able to buy as a single. Of those, Affleck is practically out as any expectation due to scarcity. Momoa has been very active and has several different signed cards available, none as Aquaman. Miller I find uninteresting. Cavill better, but not great. Gadot is the key signature by far and will come out high to try to establish a price that makes the box purchase worth it, absent any real support from the piddling number of Afflecks.

I'd like to give it a whirl, but I could be kicking myself even harder than Inflexions. So no.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Reported on another site, the release date is next week, 11/22/19.

Date confirmed on the Crypto site.

A few more autograph images too. Unbelievable that Richard Brake's autograph has somehow gotten worse. And disappointing to see the previously ultra-reliable Nestor Carbonell has worsened a little too.

Those are not the one autograph hit that I would want to pull out of a $250 plus box.

I have Carbonell autos from Lost, Psych and Bates Motel and Brake from GoT. Both good, reliable supporting actors. Grazer is young, so he could be one to watch. Tao is better known as a model and Brave Rock I'd have to look up.

I don't know why they decided to pull so tight on these floating head shots for the commons. Not that it matters really, since who is making the complete checklist, but it would have at least looked uniform to have all autograph photos be of the same size/distance as the stars.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Gadot is the key signature by far and will come out high to try to establish a price that makes the box purchase worth it, absent any real support from the piddling number of Afflecks.

Some breaks are being posted now, mainly from case busters. The Gadots are appearing on eBay with BINS between $999 and $1,500. A few have already changed hands, but with the Best Offers taken it's hard to figure out what the final price was on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The Gadots are appearing on eBay with BINS between $999 and $1,500. A few have already changed hands, but with the Best Offers taken it's hard to figure out what the final price was on them.

Here are the Gadot eBay sales so far:

#12/20 $1995.95

#22/25 $1500

#19/99 $1250
#24/99 $900
#82/99 $999.99
#95/99 $1199.99

4 of the 11 cases opened on Blowout in their group breaks produced none of the top 5 autographs. For the amount of money they charged for this product at least one of them has to be in a case. And in my opinion Miller and Momoa don't even make the cut to begin with to make the cost worthwhile.

Bet #12 is unhappy.

Yeah the breaks over there are interesting, but they really aren't revealing anything we couldn't figure out. Somebody got an all Batman box with an Affleck auto and a great Batman sketch and some poor soul pulled a Carbonell and a mediocre Dr. Manhattan sketch.

A Tale of Two Cities and "do you feel lucky Punk".

Updated Gal Gadot sales...


#3/20 $2000
#10/20 $1800
#12/20 $1995.95

#22/25 $1500

#19/99 $1250
#24/99 $900
#42/99 $1225
#57/99 $1139.99
#82/99 $999.99
#85/99 $1250
#95/99 $1199.99
#98/99 $1175

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Logan,

I know one that will not be on the market!

So what we're all - somewhat painstakingly - saying is, the good autographs are as unbuyable as we expected.

Interesting release, I'm curious how breakers are doing with it. . .

The sketches look great, but I'm not collecting sketches so I'm not going to be breaking any of this. The autograph list is great, but it's too much of a gamble for me to drop $250+ a box hoping to hit one of the 2 autograph I am chasing (and one of the 2 is only like a $20 autograph so I'll just buy that one).

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
So what we're all - somewhat painstakingly - saying is, the good autographs are as unbuyable as we expected.

Yes, but if you want only THE good autograph, that Gadot, it's doable without all the drama. If anything I think the breaks are showing that this is a terrible product for case buyers looking for autographs. It appears that something like roughly 20% of the cases don't have one of the big 5 autos. The rest do have one, but maybe not Cavill, Affleck or Gadot. Many people are simply chasing the Gadot and think selling the other cards will get it for free. That will end badly when you pay $1,600 and don't get it.

So if it's just the Gadot you want, buy one of the X/99 for $1,100 and that guarantees it. At the box/case price, even high spending collectors can't buy blind because its too easy to get skunked on the autos. Now the sketches are a slightly different matter and I have said all along that this is really a sketch product and the quality of sketches will make or break the cases.

There are some fantastic sketches being shown. The work of Chris Meeks in particular is one artist that really stands out. Some of the Heath Ledger Joker sketches are awesome looking. There are printing plates for anyone interested. These things are more subjective and harder to sell, but this is where the value lies because you can't rely on the autos when most will be commons that will sell as commons.

So if you only want those unbuyable autographs, you'd be smarter to figure out how to buy them than pray for a good draw.

Yup....even the Momoa's arent going for as much as I thought they might. So far I have only seen one Affleck, most likely less than the others. He may have done this intentionally as he is no longer Bat Man.

Minus the dual signature I count 120 Cavill sigs between the 4 versions. Temuera Morrison signed over 400. Jack Grazer 300. It looks like the big 5 are shorter runs than the other sigs so it is quite a bit more than 20%. This set was a pure gamble.

On the bright side, if you want to get a super limited Jack Dylan Grazer (star of Shazam AND IT) for under $35 now is the time. ;-)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Yup....even the Momoa's arent going for as much as I thought they might. So far I have only seen one Affleck, most likely less than the others. He may have done this intentionally as he is no longer Bat Man. ;-)

He did 30 over 3 card designs. It's the least of the top 5 and it's likely because he got the most money per signature and that's what CZE could afford. If he had a problem with his Batman gig on principle, he wouldn't have contracted at all.

Not going by the market value of the cards, I would take Momoa over Affleck any day.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

He did 30 over 3 card designs. It's the least of the top 5 and it's likely because he got the most money per signature and that's what CZE could afford. If he had a problem with his Batman gig on principle, he wouldn't have contracted at all.

Not going by the market value of the cards, I would take Momoa over Affleck any day.

Could be a combination. Ben is a strange dude. I agree if he was completely turned off on the idea, he wouldn't do it at all. Also, I don't think he is starving for autograph pay days either.

Actually after playing with the numbers your 20% quote is much closer that I first thought. I think there is some potential in some of the cheaper cards. Just picked up an Okamoto as well. If I was going to dump the big bucks it would be in Gadot. Already have Momoa from Stargate. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Could be a combination. Ben is a strange dude. I agree if he was completely turned off on the idea, he wouldn't do it at all. Also, I don't think he is starving for autograph pay days either.

He is signing now, where he was rare before. Recently he did a large number of photos, could have been for Leaf, but I know Beckett was called in to observe and certify. Some were Batman and Bruce Wayne pictures. Yeah, he's a strange dude. And he's paying child support and he has habits and a lifestyle to maintain and he's pretty young yet to carry all that baggage. Like a few actors you could think of, his future earnings could go either way, so why not collect the most autograph money he can?

Interesting that pretty much all signatures from this set are wholly illegible, with the exception of Gadot, I suppose, as long as one can read Hebrew. Maybe Crypto shoulda told the actors how much people were going to be paying for these boxes.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
Interesting that pretty much all signatures from this set are wholly illegible, with the exception of Gadot, I suppose, as long as one can read Hebrew. Maybe Crypto shoulda told the actors how much people were going to be paying for these boxes.

I doubt that would mean anything to them given that they get paid for the job only. Anyway I've given up on expecting legible signatures, I only ask for consistent ones that are not initials or first name only, unless it's Cher. What we are getting a lot now is celebrity signatures that are inconsistent and changing from product to product, often drastically. Its not just stars, it's the common signers too.

Some of it is caused by understandable things, like sticker space as opposed to card space, or a cluttered card design space as opposed to a cleaner autograph spot. Some of it can be the aging process or health issues, which may produce deteriorating autographs due to a shaky hand. But most of the time celebrities seem to be altering their autographs on certified cards for no reason at all, except possibly just getting done faster. I find this inexcusable because they are being paid. It's a job, not the money signature vs. the free autograph. This should be the money signature and it should look similar to your best attempt at writing your name, not just from product to product, but also from card to card within the same product.

In the case of getting your money's worth for autograph quality in a card product, I don't think the price of the product means anything. It might even work against it, as higher prices should have bigger stars that have no trouble getting paid for lousy autographs. There are The Twilight Zone signers and then there is everybody else.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Actually after playing with the numbers your 20% quote is much closer that I first thought. I think there is some potential in some of the cheaper cards. Just picked up an Okamoto as well. If I was going to dump the big bucks it would be in Gadot. Already have Momoa from Stargate. ;-)

To another point, the huge problem with this autograph list that has not yet been discussed here is that there are no mid-level signatures that are solidly in a $80 - $150 range. NONE. You are either swinging for the fences with basically 3 of the top 5, or you have a $20 signature. The film cells are manufactured and generic. Printing plates are harder to find and don't matter to many collectors. Sketch quality is always subjective and harder to estimate as a price. When you break it down, the analysis becomes worse and, if you notice, the crying from the breakers is becoming louder.

I like the Momoa better than you do. Aquaman will be his signature role I think, so this should be his "best" card. I like the fact that he is a willing signer and you can find him in other products at still reasonable prices. His GoT autos are holding their higher value too. Finally, by all accounts he seems like a nice guy who, at least so far, is hard working without any scandals. Liking a celebrity's reputation is as good a reason as any to collect someone's autograph.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

There are The Twilight Zone signers and then there is everybody else.

Is there an arguement to make that it is predominatly older people vs younger and the older people providing the nicer signatures.