quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Breygent was a special case and, as with most topics when we start mixing up different things, it wasn't just the niche titles or limited distribution that ultimately seems to have made the cards unprofitable for them. Breygent is still in business, but not producing trading cards according to what I last heard. However someone said a new Red Sonya was in progress and that was one of their licenses, so who knows.

Anyway, one thing I think we all can agree on, Breygent made terrific looking cards and really produced several innovations in this hobby for which they got little credit.

RS could be their final (or one of) set then? I know Inkworks did that but some of their last licences expired before production could be completed (or they couldn't fund producing them?) But I hope this work outs for the company and fans.

What innovations specifically? I know they experimented with new packaging and box distribution (contents of).

The Opti-spex lucite cards certainly were one of their ideas, and they made some of the early solid metal cards with their metallogloss line, the Dexter metal costume cards definitely being the first of their kind. They also had costumes from as many as 8 characters embedded in a single card, and I believe made the first prop/costume combo card.

The Celebrity Movie Posters base sets (and various chase card from later sets) used a raised-surface process that I'd not seen before or since, and it was quite striking. That set remains a favorite of mine.

I also liked the multi-colored markers used by signers on some sets as well as the wealth of inscription autograph cards found in their later sets, something that is still not common in non-sports. (We saw it in "Parks and Recreation", and some signers, to their credit, have done it unbidden).

Yes, the Tudors, Vampirella and early Dexter were packaged in a format loosely known as the "premium box set". A full set in a little box with two premium hits and maybe 3 insert cards as I remember the contents. The lack of normal packaging and duplicate cards made them cheaper to buy than a traditional box. I can remember picking up Vampirella for $35 a premium box and getting a quality sketch in each one. I really thought there was a lot more value in those little box sets and I didn't understand why more collectors didn't embrace them at the time.

I don't think Breygent invented the premium pack, but they took it to a new level with the overloading of hits, especially when the sales were exclusive to SDCC packs and the like. Problems arose because some people didn't know about the packs and for those who did, the hits were varied and blind. You had different types of hits, covering different titles. I bought a few and thought the value very good, but the fact was, I wasn't interested in half of the hits. So I stopped buying them, I would think others thought the same.

Then Breygent just made better hits than other manufacturers. Lots of dual costumes and signed costumes. I would count the inclusion of numerous inscriptions on autograph cards as part of their innovations because it was coordinated in sets. Also the use of different color inks for the same signer. A small thing, but I did pick up multiple copies of the same autograph card in different colors, so it worked for me.

I did not pull a lot of Breygent sketches, but I never got a junk one. Prop cards were unique and massive, which made them too easy to spot, but certainly interesting. There were even pieces of screen worn jewelry in those cards.

Plus Breygent was willing to take chances on titles that people wanted, but no major would touch. And I'm not going to say that it was a mistake to try the likes of AHS, Bates Motel, Warlords of Mars or Dexter, but Breygent took too long to get them released and they lost peak periods when they were hot properties and could have sold. They also produced too many titles that were too limited. Even if they had a huge hit they didn't have enough of it to make a big profit.

At least that's my take away on it just as someone who appreciated their cards and miss not having them around now. They were good for the hobby in ways that the majors are not.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
The Celebrity Movie Posters base sets (and various chase card from later sets) used a raised-surface process that I'd not seen before or since, and it was quite striking. That set remains a favorite of mine.

I also liked the multi-colored markers used by signers on some sets as well as the wealth of inscription autograph cards found in their later sets, something that is still not common in non-sports.

I didn't think metal cards were anything new? Thought they'd cropped up in 90s packs like Batman sets?

Yeah the raised-surface effect was on a subset of AHS 2 chase and I really liked it.

I have a love-hate relationship with inscribed autograph cards. Depending upon the inscription, I think some can take away from or clutter the autograph. But some are cool. Though my OCD collector freaks a bit at the infinite variations I'll never be able to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
At least that's my take away on it just as someone who appreciated their cards and miss not having them around now. They were good for the hobby in ways that the majors are not.

I was a huge fan of Breygent from the start. Collected a few boxes of the movie poster sets they did plus AHS.

Being a huge fan of classic movies, AHS, Bates Motel and Dexter they were my top 3 manufacturers (Next to Inkworks and Cryptozoic). As they produce sets of my favourite shows (or films).

I was able to budget for the movie poster sets but I thought the TV sets were above the normal price range. As you pointed out there were set backs in production which possibly hindered sales (I think the Dexter sets were set back) but I honestly think the increase in box prices from average £50 to £80 - 120 priced out a lot of people who were still willing to put down that kind of money on new sets from a (then) relatively new manufacturer.

I see a lot of the Bates Motel and AHS products for re-sale and you can get a lot of great hits - at least 8+ - for the price of a sealed box at about $10 per hit. Plus the base set's only $5. Interestingly the promo cards have kept their value best really. I guess they're always popular. More value for a collector buying second hand individual cards or sets than a sealed box. Which is part of the problem as the manufacturer sees no value return on their product.

I loved the idea of the SDCC packs but being UK based they were out my price range sadly. But I saw a lot of the hits and live vicariously through other collections online and boards about their packs pulls.

Whilst people did get value for money on them for the most part it was very varied, as you said, about the types of hits pulled. For example if I'd put down on a pack and pulled mostly sketches, which I'm not a huge fan of I'd of been kinda bummed about it. There was a lot of sales and trades on them. Though I heard they were quite addictive for the fun of the chase.

I hope they have continued success in their other marketing and product areas. It would be great if they ever made a come back into the Non-Sport world in the future.

I'm relatively new to card collecting and as a newbie, I appreciate the hunt for card singles on eBay and elsewhere, perhaps moreso than buying pack after pack looking for hits.

I have enjoyed the thrill of opening packs also but I've managed to assemble quite a large collection of both common and sp cards at probably a lower cost than if I had to wait for random hits and hope to resell the duplicates. At least it's taken me less time anyway.

It's still a hunt and thrill but it's certainly a different game than the early days before ridiculous signatures and relics and variants that keep you looking, often, for cards you often already essentially have but need that number or embossed thing to make you happy.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Martyr:
I appreciate the hunt for card singles on eBay and elsewhere, perhaps moreso than buying pack after pack looking for hits.

Welcome to the card collecting community Johnny.

I think it can be quite an addictive gamble on packs and even boxes (Guilty).

But it's also very subjective to the individual collector and what their passions and interests are.

Some only collect promos or will only build up a base set by trading patiently over a long time rather than buying cards or a whole base set. Others buy boxes or cases in large quantities for multiple new set releases.

But that's the nice thing about the hobby is that there's no 'right' or 'wrong' way to go about it. Whatever and however you collect is individual choice and you can change and expand or specialise however you choose.

I have popped back in everything so often, like the new DS9 cards. But I have switched to FUNKO almost 100%. I can get a new POP for sometimes less then the price of two packs of cards. The love Star Wars cards but there are to many sets now and I never have pulled an autograph from a pack in any of the sets since eps 2.
I have a friend that set tries to get sets but is being turned off by Upper Deck and others where he can't even get a base set out of 1 or 2 boxes. My local Comic Store has almost stopped carrying them altogether. They never buy cases of stuff from Rittenhouse anymore.
I don't know how to fix this things like the Topps weekly printed cards make me mad. I can't afford to pay ten dollars a card. I don't have any answers just glad to see the conversation continuing.

Good points, thanks for the warm welcome!

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Cline:
I have popped back in everything so often, like the new DS9 cards. But I have switched to FUNKO almost 100%...I don't have any answers just glad to see the conversation continuing.

Chris with your custom card collection if had such talent and success rate I'm not sure I'd buy another pro manufactured card again.

I do like many of Funko Pops on the market. My local comic book stores got more of those than comics these days and sadly too few cards. They only trade in CCGs as they ceased Non-Sport a few years back due to lack of sales. Which was a shame for me as I pulled some of my best cards there.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
My local comic book stores got more of those than comics these days and sadly too few cards. They only trade in CCGs as they ceased Non-Sport a few years back due to lack of sales.

Sadly this is all too common of a story, and I personally think it's a price point issue -- the last time I bought packs from a shop it was over $5 a pack, and sadly packs and boxes can and are cherry picked, so I stopped buying packs.

I don't think there is any decent sort of value in a $5 pack of base cards, and actually unless you get one of the 'hits' in the box very few packs are worth the $5 spent. Maybe what 1 in 20 or 1 in 40 packs is actually worth the price paid? Yikes.

This is really where non-sport can't compete with sports cards. . . In sports cards you have fans that collect specific players, specific teams, etc. . . this creates demand for low end commons and base cards that doesn't exist at all in non-sport cards. You could get a base card of a rookie, or a super star and still have a card that might be worth the price of a pack, in non-sport . . . not so much.

I don't know how you fix that problem, as has been discussed non-sport collectors expect a base set, and don't want to pay anything for it. . . I personally think a blaster box format is much more appropriate for a comic shop -- a handful of packs with a hit for $15-20.

But I also think that dumping base cards entirely probably isn't a bad idea, and can see a funko pop-like format with 1 super premium card per pack and perhaps the retail/comic shop release only has regular super-premium cards (opti-spex/skymotion/etc) and a pack costs the same as a pop. . .

Anyway -- yeah, really there isn't anywhere I can buy cards locally. . . What a strange hobby.

Maybe one way to 'right the ship' is to drop the current hobby distribution model entirely and sell directly to the public at wholesale prices. Maybe that sounds crazy -- but if it does explain to me why a distribution model is needed -- I can't buy products locally anyway. . . so?

Also this isn't the 1990s where tens of thousands of boxes are being sold to comic book stores. How many cases of a given non-sport release are created? Hundreds? Maybe a thousand?

If you sold in a minimum quantity of a case or a certain number of cases I'm sure logistically it could be done.

I'm sure I'd buy more product if I didn't have to pay the mark up to the distributor, then the mark up to the dealer, then the mark up to cover shipping the product multiple times.

Distributors do likely share in the risk on some of the products, so there is that, and I'm sure they have some customer service aspect as well (although if people get a box with a missing hit today they go directly to the manufacturer so perhaps there isn't much customer service there).

I dunno. . . It's great that some dealers (many of whom I consider friends -- please don't take this as an attack) go to shows and get the word out on product, that's awesome. But they shouldn't have to do that.

I've probably already said too much. . . is there anyone who I haven't ticked off yet? Believe me that's not my intention. . . But look at these threads -- as lively as the conversations have been it's been just a handful of people talking to each other. On the plus side I don't think it is too late to right the ship, on the negative side I feel like we've been going down this same path for over a decade, with the same results year after year.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
I didn't think metal cards were anything new? Thought they'd cropped up in 90s packs like Batman sets?

Do you mean like the Marvel Metal and Batman Forever Metal sets of the 1990's? Those cards weren't actually metal. The Breygent Metallogloss cards and Dexter Costume were literal pieces of metal, not a "metalized" process applied to the surface of regular paper card.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
I didn't think metal cards were anything new? Thought they'd cropped up in 90s packs like Batman sets?

Do you mean like the Marvel Metal and Batman Forever Metal sets of the 1990's? Those cards weren't actually metal. The Breygent Metallogloss cards and Dexter Costume were literal pieces of metal, not a "metalized" process applied to the surface of regular paper card.

Yes is the answer. Since I never owned any of those cards, I simply took the name (even "metalized") at face value = Thanks for clearing that up The actual real metal cards sound very cool. But do they actually fit into regular 9 pocket pages with out tearing or damaging them?

They were very thick, but with rounded corners, so yes, I think they would fit in regular 9 pocket pages. I don't have my Dexters left (since I don't usually keep costume cards when I get them, even ones on metal), but I still have the complete 18 card Classic Rock Stars art set. It's a great looking collection, and heavy, man!

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Anyway -- yeah, really there isn't anywhere I can buy cards locally. . . What a strange hobby.

I live in the Raleigh, NC area. I can think of one place locally to buy sports cards (they carry very little hockey though the Hurricanes are here); the only places that carry any sort of non-sports cards that I know of are comic shops. There are maybe 3 or 4 of those spread out over the triangle here. Of those, they sell predominantly comic-themed, as you would imagine, and some CCG. So they won't have any Star Wars, Trek, AHS, or anything like that. Their boxes are usually several years old and unreasonably priced.

I asked about their stock at one shop a couple of years ago. They said 'people come to the comic book store to buy comics, not cards'. Ok then.

quote:

Originally posted by weasel-king:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Anyway -- yeah, really there isn't anywhere I can buy cards locally. . . What a strange hobby.

I asked about their stock at one shop a couple of years ago. They said 'people come to the comic book store to buy comics, not cards'. Ok then.

Yeah my local stopped selling anything but CCGs about 10 years ago now despite some great Non-Sport sets (they never carried sports cards).

I remember once spotting a sealed box (Alias Season 3/Inkworks) under the counter and haggling a price but when I'd asked to buy it outright he eyed me suspiciously and thought I was joking. Some dealers don't get what a great 'in demand' demographic they're missing out on.

Said 'comic book' store is currently doing a roaring trade in Funko Pops! But then again there were stores selling almost nothing but Beanie Babies 20 years ago... -Shrugs-

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:

I remember once spotting a sealed box (Alias Season 3/Inkworks) under the counter and haggling a price but when I'd asked to buy it outright he eyed me suspiciously and thought I was joking. Some dealers don't get what a great 'in demand' demographic they're missing out on.

Comic books shops should be able to order boxes for you from Diamond if you ask even if they don't normally sell them.
I used to shop at Calamity Comics in Harrow and they never had problems on the odd occasion I asked. It wasn't very often I asked as there were other, cheaper, options at the time.

I recently walked into a local comic store that I had not been inside of in about 5 years

They completely renovated the place, and it was probably more than 50 % Funko Pops, more so than comics

As for non sports cards, I haven't seen most comic stores carry any product whatsoever since the 1990s, even Star Wars

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
As for non sports cards, I haven't seen most comic stores carry any product whatsoever since the 1990s, even Star Wars

Yeah our moved the comics downstairs to make way for the Funko Pops. The last Non-Sport they carried was Indiana Jones Heritage around 2008.

They said it was lack of demand (Though interestingly every box always sold out) but I think the cost of shipping was beyond what they wanted to pay. They tended to get 'a' box or two of each product, never cases.

But now they have Funkos by the case load.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
But now they have Funkos by the case load.

These Funkos are going to go bust big time and anyone who thinks it can be turned into their business model is in for closure. Doesn't anybody learn from history? We have had numerous fads before, but as the seller, you have to get in early, make your money, and get out early before it all goes downhill.

I have just seen selected Funkos on sale at FYE for 75% off or 3 for the price of 2. They have them all stacked up on two whole walls and several counters. There are way too many of them, some on subjects that will never interest anyone. They are not numbered, who knows how many were made on any given character. They are not well made, just cheap plastic figures, sold cheaply.

I get where you might pick up a favorite figure, I have two myself. But that's it. Maybe someone might like to have 5 or 6 related figures from a movie, but that's it. I will never believe that Funkos are the next great adult collectible, no matter who says it, sorry.

As for comic book stores, I'm surprised to hear that anyone can find a pure comic book store anymore. The two remaining by me have all diversified and are basically what you would call hobby stores. They do sell Funkos, CGGs, resin models, action figures, graphic comic books and still sport and non-sport trading cards. Lots of little stuff for kids too.

An interesting new item I saw come in the other day at my store was these metal snap together models of trucks and machinery. I forget the name, but they are in flat packages for about $12 each and you put them together without tools, but it takes time and skill. Also considered a collectible and a big seller. Funkos better watch out.