quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

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Originally posted by webjon:

I was surprised when the Gotham sets were canceled. Clearly at the end of the day there just wasn't enough support from collectors/fans to keep producing sets despite the fact that it is still a well reviewed active TV show that gets over 2 million people watching a week.

How many of those 2 million people even know that the cards exist?

I never understood why some card manufacturer doesn't take the opportunity to hawk their product on a namesake TV show. Even if it's not a full blown commercial, even if it's just a quick shot of some place card announcing the cards, saying there are autographs, showing some cards, whatever. I guess they don't want to spend a few bucks to advertise.

We are always preaching to the choir here. It's not a big choir, it's a really small choir. The general public doesn't know about non-sport trading cards geared for adults. People look at me like I'm from another planet when I try to talk about just basic hobby stuff. They have no point of reference.

If the card industry wants to grow, find a way to advertise outside of the small community who already seek out card products. As the hobby has gotten smaller, production has gotten smaller. That is not the right direction. You don't shrink for the elite, you open up for the majority. Do retail, get card boxes into drug store chains, use tie-in advertising, make non-collectors aware of cards that they may buy because of the subject. That probably won't make them a card collector, but it will help sell that title to non-card collectors who truly do not know these cards even exist.

You shouldn't be done collecting but re-focus the collection to work with the times. When I started collecting I had to make master-sets of everything I opened. When that became too overwhelming of a job I changed my collecting habits to be more financially friendly and more challenging. I picked a couple of sets that are a little older and are not expensive but also not easy to find.

I also picked a comic character to collect. This character has very few cards or sketches out there so it is the fun of the hunt to find something I don't have.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

I never understood why some card manufacturer doesn't take the opportunity to hawk their product on a namesake TV show. Even if it's not a full blown commercial, even if it's just a quick shot of some place card announcing the cards, saying there are autographs, showing some cards, whatever. I guess they don't want to spend a few bucks to advertise.

I've never understood why card manufacturers in general just don't seem to advertise. Inkworks used to have major booths at many conventions, but now days it seems like manufacturers only show up to shows like Philly or The National where as you said -- they are preaching to the choir.

And I don't even think it's that complicated -- why isn't a representative of Crypto walking around these cons handing out promos to people gathered around celeb signings? The last time I saw Crypto at a show -- I'm pretty sure it was C2E2, and they were there talking about gaming -- with very little if any trading card stuff. Why don't these companies have significant social media campaigns tweeting/instagramming their cards with tags to the celebs or properties? OK Fine, maybe that's not allowed, but I bet there are very simple ways around that. Like "Hey everyone -- tweet a pic of your favorite Norman Reedus card! For a chance to win a free promo pack #ToppsCards"

If your product is in mass merchants I guess you don't need to advertise as much, but I don't even know if I could buy a Cryptozoic release locally.

Dont give up go in a different direction .When trading cards came to New Zealand early 1980s I too went for everything even though there was only Australian and N Z sports available then U S sports cards and non sports came on line I purchased all i could and I still have them cant do anything with them except give them away .Then I discovered Promos so I went for them Then came Inkworks and I fell in lpve with their Promos so from about 1990 on I have only collected Inkworks Promos Box Cards Case Cards and Preview Sets and a few modern sets Promo cards so for nearly 30 years my collecting has only been the Inkworks issues these have kept me in the hobby And although I now have the bulk of these Inkworks sets there aer still cards that I want not many but still enough to keep me interested in the hobby and still keep an interest in other issuers cards that I do buy off the bay occasionally so dont give up diversify
I have a list of Inkworks cards I need in the for trade thread
Piko

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Originally posted by Raven:

I never understood why some card manufacturer doesn't take the opportunity to hawk their product

All this week in the UK the schools have been on holiday so Panini who make cards and stickers have had buses driving around the country and setting up in shopping centers and supermarkets getting the kids to come along with all their swaps, giving out free albums and generally saying to the public, hey look over here isn't this great.

Dip in and out occasionally

These posts make me quite sad. As someone who handled most companies for European distribution for many years, we really didnt know how good we had it 10yrs or so ago. Product came out sold out, large audience for buying from dealers and dealers generally carried most products.
I think we tried to help launch new ways to collect product, to try and find new audiences.

I never really collected as such, even though i have a huge history in the non sport arena, i was somewhat shortsighted in terms of owning Cards Inc and Master Replicas that i never really kept anything, which has been a big regret. But i have huge sympathy with collectors now given that non sport has mirrored in many ways sports card collecting. Overpriced and limited, produced to attract real top end collectors. Which has ultimately harmed and pushed away the collector base.

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Originally posted by DarrenEps1:
Overpriced and limited, produced to attract real top end collectors. Which has ultimately harmed and pushed away the collector base.

I believe that is very concise way to sum it all up. But is it reversible? And how did you not keep your best cards?

The other problem in the UK has been a lack of proper distribution since the demise of Cards Inc. Esvedium started a bit and disappointed.

Are there any distributors in Europe in the same league as Cards Inc was?

quote:

Originally posted by DarrenEps1:

Dip in and out occasionally

Nice to see you are still around, hope you are well.

Thanks for your insight DarrenEps1 (and welcome back).

I think the industry has changed when it started imitating its sports counterpart, despite the fact that ironically Non-Sport was supposedly to be the 'opposite' of the money geared sports card hobby.

I honestly don't think the industry has been the same since the recession in 2008+ Hobbies like trading card collection took a huge hit when people started having to make major lifestyle cuts and changes just to make a living and get by.

For many people 'luxury' hobbies like trading cards became an expense they either realised they could live without or would have to live without.

Then sadly even after the economy globally stabilized which has realistically taken the better part of a decade (some places still not 100% stable), many people either didn't come back to the hobby or came back very cautious on how and what they were spending their money on.

I think this is why many people don't tend to buy sealed boxes or even packs in the quantites they used too. Cases were often for dealers or very wealthy collectors and have become even rare amongst collectors now.

I haven't bought a sealed box in about 3 years but if I did it would be a product I was collecting from scratch. That way I'd feel I was getting my 'moneys worth'. Otherwise putting down £50 - 150 on a sealed box where 90% of it is unwanted product is too much of a waste.

The gambles too big a risk these days. The chances of getting the super rare hits is too high and online sales means you can pick up cool hits you wanted for far less than the price of a box.

Example would be American Horror Story: Asylum which still sells high as a sealed box even £80 - 120. Yet you can buy costumes and autographs of even big stars like Zachary Quinto for £20 - 35! Big difference to your pocket and your collection.

Hello Woolfie

Yes all well thank you. Good to see your still collecting.

I have looked to re-enter the market over the last 3-4yrs, have signed a bunch of rights, I had Kung Fu Panda, Classic Dreamworks movies, and a whole bunch of other rights, but ended up after consideration deciding that the market wasnt strong enough
Which was a shame. Im still looking, and may well try again.

Nothing will beat launching X-Files Series 1 in the UK, Lord of the Rings or Lost, probably the 3 best hobby products to sell in terms of quantity in the UK. Half the hobby run of LOTR came into the UK, thats how many collectors we had in the UK and EU then. Its a shame that a large % of those people now no longer collect

Nice to see you posting again Darren.

All this talk of Cards Inc. and Collectorzone sure makes me nostalgic... anyone remember the latter's Friday afternoon specials/auctions?

I sure did get some cool things from you back in the day. The GoldenEye numbered promo and San-Diego uncut promo sheet which were impossible items to find years ago, and despite the proliferation of Inkworks stock these days, takes away nothing from the pleasure I got obtaining those cards at the time. I also got the very last Women of Bond Barbara Bach auto you had for the princely sum of £50 from you guys too. That's a toughie these days.

I did miss out on the infamous the Sean Bean LOTR auto but I did tune-in to one of your QVC Collectible hours and if I hadn't seen that show, and you promoting a Tomorrow Never Dies base set and binder, I doubt I would be on here now or even be aware of half the cards I have collected for the past 20 years.

I think that is what the majority of the slow down in this hobby can be attributed to: awareness.

People fall away from all hobbies over time for one reason or another, but if there is a shrinking customer base, new people need to get involved for the industry to survive. It's not rocket science. I understand manufacturer's being scared to test tepid waters, lest they go under too, but more promotion needs to happen. How and where? I don't know - I am no marketing exec! But unless it happens I can only see the hobby aspect of the hobby shrinking further still.

I see LOADS of gaming cards and stickers in UK supermarkets which is great and there must still be interest, but that needs to translate into adulthood. As a child predisposed to collecting, I collected football and Star Wars stickers, and even Star Wars and Power Rangers cards, but I had no idea there were more 'grown up' themes to be collected after those fell away. People just need to know what is out there.

As for the accusation that manufacturer's have catered too much towards the more 'high-end' collector the last few years. I suppose that appears to be the case, but even so, giving up collecting because you can't have everything? When could anybody always have everything they wanted?
And I distinctly remember almost EVERYONE complaining several years ago that base sets were "worthless" but now that manufacturers have made them harder to complete/you need several boxes to finish a base set, people are up in arms!

Even in the non-sports 'heyday' (early/mid 2000's) I remember Darren's stall at the Birmingham Memorabilia show with the £900+ Harry Potter triple auto or the Whomping Willow 25-case incentive. Mega tough and expensive cards are nothing new and too many use them as an excuse to complain IMO.

I wish some people who gripe could see all the good stuff under their nose and help the hobby grow again by buying some things they like.

quote:

Originally posted by X:
All this talk of Cards Inc. and Collectorzone sure makes me nostalgic... anyone remember the latter's Friday afternoon specials/auctions?

I wish some people who gripe could see all the good stuff under their nose and help the hobby grow again by buying some things they like.

Yes I remember the sales on their website it was great. Lots of fun.

True but the main focus needs to be on newer - and multi generational - collectors over the same group just multiplying the quantity they buy. How to engage that I don't know.

We need more product and marketing managers on these boards. Great to have Darren's personal expertise and insight into the process behind the scene.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
Example would be American Horror Story: Asylum which still sells high as a sealed box even £80 - 120. Yet you can buy costumes and autographs of even big stars like Zachary Quinto for £20 - 35! Big difference to your pocket and your collection.

AHS Asylum has 8 hits per box. I thought it was a fantastic release and very, very well done. At 8 hits per box for that price I don't think you can fault the manufacturer at all. There were a lot of good autographs, autographed costumes, awesome props, and even sketches. This was clearly a case of a set not finding it's audience, and not a case of a disappointing release -- but even with the release not finding an audience this set was still a much better value than lots of other releases.

quote:

Originally posted by X:

People just need to know what is out there.

....and there you have the # 1 biggest reason why this hobby never gets anywhere. You can come up with every great set you like and stuff it full of great stuff but if the only people who know it exists are us lot then you are going nowhere fast.

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Originally posted by webjon:
AHS Asylum has 8 hits per box...This was clearly a case of a set not finding it's audience, and not a case of a disappointing release -- but even with the release not finding an audience this set was still a much better value than lots of other releases.

Whilst my wallet couldn't justify the price tag I had no idea it was 8 hits per box, I thought it was 2 hits I clearly didn't read the find print.

For those who could afford it, sounds like good value for money. I picked up some lose chase sets from AHS 1 & 2 and they're very nicely done. Particularly the finishes on AHS 2.

Since it didn't find its audience, do you know if they are continuing with any more AHS sets?

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by X:

People just need to know what is out there.

....and there you have the # 1 biggest reason why this hobby never gets anywhere. You can come up with every great set you like and stuff it full of great stuff but if the only people who know it exists are us lot then you are going nowhere fast.

I think this hobby suffers the way many industry platforms in entertainment are especially music and film in that since the advent of downloads and widespread internet, everyone wants something high quality and great value for cheap or FREE.

But if you don't put your money into 'the machine' it won't be able to function and afford to produce such products at brand new, cut rates for all.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
AHS Asylum has 8 hits per box...This was clearly a case of a set not finding it's audience, and not a case of a disappointing release -- but even with the release not finding an audience this set was still a much better value than lots of other releases.

Whilst my wallet couldn't justify the price tag I had no idea it was 8 hits per box, I thought it was 2 hits I clearly didn't read the find print.

For those who could afford it, sounds like good value for money. I picked up some lose chase sets from AHS 1 & 2 and they're very nicely done. Particularly the finishes on AHS 2.

Since it didn't find its audience, do you know if they are continuing with any more AHS sets?

The company that produced them, Breygent, has stopped doing trading cards .

Breygent was a special case and, as with most topics when we start mixing up different things, it wasn't just the niche titles or limited distribution that ultimately seems to have made the cards unprofitable for them. Breygent is still in business, but not producing trading cards according to what I last heard. However someone said a new Red Sonya was in progress and that was one of their licenses, so who knows.

Anyway, one thing I think we all can agree on, Breygent made terrific looking cards and really produced several innovations in this hobby for which they got little credit.

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Originally posted by Triple-Frog:

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Originally posted by TC00:

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Originally posted by webjon:
AHS Asylum has 8 hits per box...This was clearly a case of a set not finding it's audience, and not a case of a disappointing release -- but even with the release not finding an audience this set was still a much better value than lots of other releases.

Whilst my wallet couldn't justify the price tag I had no idea it was 8 hits per box, I thought it was 2 hits I clearly didn't read the find print.

For those who could afford it, sounds like good value for money. I picked up some lose chase sets from AHS 1 & 2 and they're very nicely done. Particularly the finishes on AHS 2.

Since it didn't find its audience, do you know if they are continuing with any more AHS sets?

The company that produced them, Breygent, has stopped doing trading cards .

Oh that's a shame. Thanks for letting me know. Hope someone else picks up some of their licences especially AHS.