I agree that this is kind of a "grab bag" situation and will most likely buy a few packs/boxes myself. I look at it this way, if I get something to add to my collection, then awesome! If not, then there's always those sites to sell on...or even the trading forum.

If they ARE holding back some autos for future releases what would they be? They said no Tommy Lee Jones, Chris Carter ect ect....out of the lists we HAVE seen of the rarer autographs who is left? There aren't many other high end Inkworks autographs I can think of that aren't in this set and it would be pretty stupid to release another set with basicly the exact same cards as the first release. I have a feeling most of the cards they received would be going into this release...

I second Starchild's sentiments - I'm willing to take a gamble on a box to get something I need, maybe a big card, but be able to have some influx to my trading stock as well (with, maybe, a big card I can trade for one I need)

As far as the impression that the market will be "flooded" or whatever with some of these autos and the value will plummet, I think that's probably just reactionary panic. If an auto is rare, it will still be rare. Inkworks may have kept some to be able to deal with damaged deliveries, etc - or it was a redemption (a la Lost Season 1's big autos) but the redemptions were seeded based on how many they knew were coming.

I think there will be a momentary dip in the market price of some of these cards until they are absorbed into collections, but in 6 months to 12 months they will be just as rare a find as they always have been. The examples being cited on some threads here are showing a significant, but not disastrous drop due to some recent trends.

This has happened before. I forget the product now, but read (in NSU?) about a 1960's set, I think, that had something like 4 pristine cases found in a warehouse. There was a short-term drop in the price as these cards entered the market but came back once these had been "assimilated".

From a value perspective, the dealers have already taken a much bigger hit (due to inventory with redemptions that will now not be redeemable) than any of us probably will. For us, this is a hobby (i.e. disposable income) - for them, it's part or all of their livelihood.

I just watched a Tomb Raider Angelie Jolie Autograph Cradle of Life A1 go for $255. That looks like a noticable price drop to me....

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Shaffer:
If they ARE holding back some autos for future releases what would they be? They said no Tommy Lee Jones, Chris Carter ect ect....out of the lists we HAVE seen of the rarer autographs who is left? There aren't many other high end Inkworks autographs I can think of that aren't in this set and it would be pretty stupid to release another set with basicly the exact same cards as the first release. I have a feeling most of the cards they received would be going into this release...

Bryan - do you really think it would be that stupid of Razor to milk these cards over a few releases?

If a collector was going after a Lara Flynn Boyle MIB autograph and they were seeded in both hypothetical Series 1 and Series 2 of Ink Archives, why wouldn't BOTH series appeal to that collector?

If you go by the logic of why bother with, 'another set with basicly the exact same cards as the first release,' you might as well ask yourself why bother with this Razor set at all since EVERYTHING they are offering has been released before.

I hope they put everything and the kitchen sink into this set and let Inkworks go out in a blaze of glory - but I wouldn't fault Razor business wise if they milked this opportunity. I may not like it, but financially it makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by MvG:
I just watched a Tomb Raider Angelie Jolie Autograph Cradle of Life A1 go for $255. That looks like a noticable price drop to me....

If there were lots of these popping up on eBay, I'd say there was a correlation. But there isn't a huge influx in Jolie auto cards is there?

quote:

If there were lots of these popping up on eBay, I'd say there was a correlation. But there isn't a huge influx in Jolie auto cards is there?

You are right about that. Perhaps it is just the bad economy or people are expecting a huge influx because Inkworks went out of business. I don't know! But you have to agree it is half of what it used to be. Just my two cents

quote:

Originally posted by MvG:

quote:

If there were lots of these popping up on eBay, I'd say there was a correlation. But there isn't a huge influx in Jolie auto cards is there?

You are right about that. Perhaps it is just the bad economy or people are expecting a huge influx because Inkworks went out of business. I don't know! But you have to agree it is half of what it used to be. Just my two cents

Sometimes it's just timing though. Even with more common autos that are typically in the $30 range, I've had situations where I try for 3 or 4 months to get one closer to $20 with no luck, miss one listing and it goes for like 8 bucks, then back to fighting for a "deal" at $20 or so.

quote:

Originally posted by rubadub001:

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Shaffer:
If they ARE holding back some autos for future releases what would they be? They said no Tommy Lee Jones, Chris Carter ect ect....out of the lists we HAVE seen of the rarer autographs who is left? There aren't many other high end Inkworks autographs I can think of that aren't in this set and it would be pretty stupid to release another set with basicly the exact same cards as the first release. I have a feeling most of the cards they received would be going into this release...

Bryan - do you really think it would be that stupid of Razor to milk these cards over a few releases?

If a collector was going after a Lara Flynn Boyle MIB autograph and they were seeded in both hypothetical Series 1 and Series 2 of Ink Archives, why wouldn't BOTH series appeal to that collector?

If you go by the logic of why bother with, 'another set with basicly the exact same cards as the first release,' you might as well ask yourself why bother with this Razor set at all since EVERYTHING they are offering has been released before.

I hope they put everything and the kitchen sink into this set and let Inkworks go out in a blaze of glory - but I wouldn't fault Razor business wise if they milked this opportunity. I may not like it, but financially it makes sense.

My point is what other cards would they put into a second set that aren't already in this set? Who in their right mind would purchase a series 2 that had absolutely no new autographs than the first one. That is my point. The collector that wants the Lara Flynn Boyle could just keep purchasing Series 1 boxes and theoretically have the same odds of pulling one as they would if there was a second release. There have not been a lot of the high end Inkworks cards that have NOT been mentioned already by Razor as being in the first set...therefore I would imagine that everything would be going into this set, simply because they do not have anything new to make people want to buy into a second set. If it turns out they have Chris Carters and they have Jolies and Tommy Lee Jones then yeah by all means a second set is prob on the way but Razor said they didn't, so I can't really think of any cards that would people buy a second release.

I feel that Donruss Americana are repeats of the same list of autographs. They might have a few different ones but they generally crank out a large list of duplicate 'signers'. That seems to sell for some crazy reason. Nobody in their right mind would produce the exact same product and cal it a volume II. There'd be some kind of different catch or gimmick to entice people to buy series 2.

Thinking along the lines of 'what if' series 1 sells out, and you have a chance to get the same autos in series 2 - why WOULDN'T you buy the 2nd series?

Donruss Americana is a perfect example. Unless you're a completist, do collectors really care if they get a John Travolta auto on an ugly Americana Series 1 vs. Series 2 card? It's the same sticker - just a different ugly card.

Remember that Ink Archives isn't some new release where you are trying to complete a set. It's a grab bag product and based on what information that has been provided, this release will be made up of random Inkworks autos - a re-release of old product.

You may be right that they've listed all the good high end autographs, but that doesn't mean they have put ALL autos of each signer in series 1. Sure it'd be great if there were some new product in a 2nd series, I'm just saying they might not.

Either way, if I am after a certain auto and they have it in both products - I have no problem buying the 2nd series, assuming insert ratios and prices are similar.

quote:

Originally posted by rubadub001:
Either way, if I am after a certain auto and they have it in both products - I have no problem buying the 2nd series, assuming insert ratios and prices are similar.

I agree with this. My thinking is, just what if (and I have no numbers or ratios - just making numbers up) they had 50 Buffy Season 2 John Ritter autos and only put 25 of them in series 1 and held on to 25 for a hypothetical Series 2? And what if the above mentioned Series 1 sells out completely and collectors like me looking for that auto get no shot at it and/or the selling price on auction sites hits the roof...well, we might have a shot if a Series 2 and a second round of the same autos is released. Maybe not as many people would buy, but I'm certain there would be quite a few who would.

I think 50 Ritter autos might be a little out, 1 would be about right, same number for the other big name signers - I hope to buy a box or 2 depending on price, as with any "grab-bag", assume you'll pull one of the low value cards and bid accordingly - if you pull a rarity then you've had a result

quote:

Originally posted by doggonit:
I think 50 Ritter autos might be a little out, 1 would be about right, same number for the other big name signers - I hope to buy a box or 2 depending on price, as with any "grab-bag", assume you'll pull one of the low value cards and bid accordingly - if you pull a rarity then you've had a result

I can't say if Razor got all the Ritter autos but we know for sure they had more than 1 left. When John Ritter passed away Inkworks posted several John Ritter autographs that had special inscriptions the JR added on them like "I love Buffy" (I think there were 3 of those) and some others that were signed in multiple colors like John in red and Ritter in blue. If any of these turn up you can expect some bidding wars. JR had fun with his cards, even the ones that made it into packs had many variations, signed in black, blue, green, red, brown (and some had multi colors), and there were some inscribed with things like "Ted", "as Ted", "Buffy 1999" and others (those are the ones I recall offhand).

quote:

Originally posted by Incarnadine:

I can't say if Razor got all the Ritter autos but we know for sure they had more than 1 left.

How can you be so sure of that? Those images could have been from someone(s) personal collection, archival scans or even cards that were eventually sent out after the fact.

Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere yet?
I am very intrested in trying a few.

Matt

all speculation.. we'll never know...

quote:

Originally posted by Redemption:

quote:

Originally posted by Incarnadine:

I can't say if Razor got all the Ritter autos but we know for sure they had more than 1 left.

How can you be so sure of that? Those images could have been from someone(s) personal collection, archival scans or even cards that were eventually sent out after the fact.

Nobody can know "for sure" but I do know that before JR passed away there actually were rumors regarding the existence of the "I love Buffy" variations that never made it into packs. Until those scans were posted even their existence was just speculation. I was very HARD CORE Buffy collecting and no collection on any board I ever visited, no sales on ebay, or even anyone ever claiming to have pulled or seen one ever surfaced. The Buffy collectors were very fanatical, if a pic had ever surfaced it would have made the rounds, same goes for someone pulling one, unless they never told or showed anyone the card collectors would have got wind of it.
My guess *speculation* is someone at some point got to see one somehow at Inkworks which got the rumor started, the rumor that ended up being supported by the scans showing up long after the rumors.

quote:

Originally posted by doggonit:
I think 50 Ritter autos might be a little out, 1 would be about right

That's why I said I was just making numbers up....just as an example.

quote:

Originally posted by Incarnadine:

Nobody can know "for sure" but I do know that before JR passed away there actually were rumors regarding the existence of the "I love Buffy" variations that never made it into packs. Until those scans were posted even their existence was just speculation. I was very HARD CORE Buffy collecting and no collection on any board I ever visited, no sales on ebay, or even anyone ever claiming to have pulled or seen one ever surfaced. The Buffy collectors were very fanatical, if a pic had ever surfaced it would have made the rounds, same goes for someone pulling one, unless they never told or showed anyone the card collectors would have got wind of it.
My guess *speculation* is someone at some point got to see one somehow at Inkworks which got the rumor started, the rumor that ended up being supported by the scans showing up long after the rumors.

Well, I'm guessing of course, but if they never made it into boxes then they could have ended in someone's personal collection that probably wasn't sold off. Which of course doesn't mean they were sold to Razor. We'll just have to wait and see what shows up on the aftermarket.