When will we start calling Razor what it is? Upper Deck, bought paid for and funded by. If I am wrong then please Mr. Gray do come along and tell us.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi_Collector:
Rereading your comments struck with me. On one hand its ok for the company to sell the big auto's off for more profit and on the other hand you didn't buy the product because you were afraid there were not alot of high end auto's in the release.

Hence if the company did not sell the autos separately and inserted those cards into the product more people would have bought the boxes and cases and would have been happier with the product and the company would have made more mone.

That is exactly what I was saying It is the perogitive of the company to release whatever they want how they want. It is the buyers perogitive to decide whether or not to purchase.

I agree, if they would have put more high end cards in the release instead of selling them before - of course, that would have been a much better product.

But, I for one, did not know about the pre-selling of the high end cards (until I read it here recently). I just made my assumptions and decisions based on the fact that the cards were from the warehouse of a card company that released these cards (in some cases years earlier and in my opinion some of the much better cards were the earlier releases). And, considering how many (or should I less) high end cards were in the original release, I really would not think that the warehouse would have many in there.

I guess I do sound like I'm contradicting myself here - but I agree that the release would have been better and that Razor may have shot themselves in the foot here. But it's thier choice to make. I don't find it shady though. Just a lack of business sense and inability to put out a stellar product.

It's also the buyer's decision whether or not to purchase this release.

So yea (in my opinion), it is ok for the company to sell the big autos off, and yes, I didn't think this purchase would be a good or "profitable" one for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Sci-FiPlanet:
When will we start calling Razor what it is? Upper Deck, bought paid for and funded by. If I am wrong then please Mr. Gray do come along and tell us.

I have a question here.

Upper Deck has been a big name in sports cards since it came into the market in 1989. I have no idea who the principal owners are. I gather from your post that you are saying there is some relationship between UD and Razor, perhaps in joint ownership or silent partner.

If that is true, and I wouldn't know if it was, why exactly is that a problem? Many people have business interests in several companies at once. Many people sit on multiple Board of Directors. If UD and Razor have a common bond, where is the conflict?

I'm just trying to understand your post Si-FiPlanet as I am ignorate of this issue.

I've been out of the loop for awhile and comeback to find this juicy scandal going on.

So let's see what we have here. Razor buys a large stock of Inkworks autographs, cherrypicks a number of the better autographs, sells them on ebay under an alternate account, then releases their Ink Archives, which consists of mostly lower level autographs.

Hmmm, sounds downright shady to me. You can make all the excuses you want and attempt to justify their actions by proclaiming "It's their right to sell the cards anyway they want", but once they used the alternate account that shows it for what it was.

Considering this company has had ethical issues with it's previous products, I find it hard to believe that so many people are willing to give them the benifit of the doubt. The fact that you can score lots and lots of autographs to fill out your wantlists doesn't excuse Razor for acting unethically.

I wish people would research this topic before posting. Brian has explained why the other account was used. It's the account that he uses to sell all of his non razor products.

And while Ink Archives does contain mostly lower end autos, there are enough middle and high end stuff in it that you don't feel like you been kicked you know where after you break a box like you do with 99% of the sports products.

And lets get this straight...it is not unethical to sell cards that are yours to do with what you want. To me it's way way way more unethical to charge $100 for a box of cards only to pull $15 worth of cards out of it, and that's what Topps and Upperdeck does every day of the week and twice on weekends.

quote:

To me it's way way way more unethical to charge $100 for a box of cards only to pull $15 worth of cards out of it, and that's what Topps and Upperdeck does every day of the week and twice on weekends.

THIS!

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
I wish people would research this topic before posting. Brian has explained why the other account was used. It's the account that he uses to sell all of his non razor products.

If I understand this quote correctly, Brian uses the other account for all of his non razor products.

He purchased Inkworks stock of cards and released information regarding a new Razor product that will be packaged, advertised and sold by Razor and it is the Inkworks stock of cards.

So.... He sold Razor products under this other account. And stopped selling under that account because the masses discovered what he was doing and complained.


I got it now.
Thanks for the quote.

quote:

Originally posted by Arvin Sloane:
I've been out of the loop for awhile and comeback to find this juicy scandal going on.

So let's see what we have here. Razor buys a large stock of Inkworks autographs, cherrypicks a number of the better autographs, sells them on ebay under an alternate account, then releases their Ink Archives, which consists of mostly lower level autographs.

Hmmm, sounds downright shady to me. You can make all the excuses you want and attempt to justify their actions by proclaiming "It's their right to sell the cards anyway they want", but once they used the alternate account that shows it for what it was.

Considering this company has had ethical issues with it's previous products, I find it hard to believe that so many people are willing to give them the benifit of the doubt. The fact that you can score lots and lots of autographs to fill out your wantlists doesn't excuse Razor for acting unethically.

thank you for summing up the last 9 pages for me.
yes it does sound shady.... i'm glad I never took a chance on this product.

although, if it were Piecework cards from inkworks, i might have to have a tickle!

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi_Collector:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
I wish people would research this topic before posting. Brian has explained why the other account was used. It's the account that he uses to sell all of his non razor products.

If I understand this quote correctly, Brian uses the other account for all of his non razor products.

He purchased Inkworks stock of cards and released information regarding a new Razor product that will be packaged, advertised and sold by Razor and it is the Inkworks stock of cards.

So.... He sold Razor products under this other account. And stopped selling under that account because the masses discovered what he was doing and complained.


I got it now.
Thanks for the quote.

Again...they are Razor's cards to sell. What is so bloody hard to understand about that?

And what's wrong with pulling them after the public complained? Razor does something that no other company does...they listen to the people who buy their products. Sure they've made their share of mistakes, but what young company doesn't?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just because you disagree with something they do doesn't make it shady or unethical.

Anyway...I think I'm done with the topic...as someone said earlier there are two sides to this and no one is going to change the other's mind.

quote:

The issue I'm addressing is regarding what Brian Gray/Razor did prior to announcing the creation of Ink Archives. Which was: Sell off the 'super autos' via an eBay private account. Questions and intense investigations by hobbyists like Mario at Wax Heaven (http://completist.wordpress.com/) forced Razor to pull the auctions. Which is what happens when you shine a light onto a dark deed done being done in the shadows.

The cards where sold on ebay long after they made the ink arcives boxes announcements and even after they had sold out of ink archives.. I bought some angel autographs long after they had announced the ink archive set (and before I found out it was razor selling them)..

I can not complain because they accepted everyone of my offers on the cards and I got some nice ones while the auctions where still running

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Sci-FiPlanet:
When will we start calling Razor what it is? Upper Deck, bought paid for and funded by. If I am wrong then please Mr. Gray do come along and tell us.

I have a question here.

Upper Deck has been a big name in sports cards since it came into the market in 1989. I have no idea who the principal owners are. I gather from your post that you are saying there is some relationship between UD and Razor, perhaps in joint ownership or silent partner.

If that is true, and I wouldn't know if it was, why exactly is that a problem? Many people have business interests in several companies at once. Many people sit on multiple Board of Directors. If UD and Razor have a common bond, where is the conflict?

I'm just trying to understand your post Si-FiPlanet as I am ignorate of this issue.

Understood, I shall be more specific, it is a massive conflict and it is true It’s simple Razor has been in negotiations for a lot of ball player rights along with a lot of other licenses, against UD along with talking to people who want nothing to do with UD but MIGHT deal with Razor. Its not about “being on the board” its about UD bankrolling a company and lying about it. Ethics, honesty and fair play something many card companies are coming up short on. The fact is people thought Razor was independent but its not, its owned and funded by Richard McWilliam chairmen of UD. You ask Brian to comment on that one… I think he will keep quite though he has to everyone else who asked about it. This is a big part of the reason UD will be losing MLB next year. They lost YuGiOh and lot of other licenses already amid allegations of complicity in the manufacture of counterfeit goods. These lies simply add to the already diminishing credibility of Razor and UD.

http://completist.wordpress.co...mo-upper-deck-razor/

I think this is what is being referred to in the posts above. I always hate anonymous sources quoting more anonymous sources, but here it is for your perusal.

Thanks for your input Si-FiPlanet and OWM, I get what you are saying now. Since switching from sport to non-sport many years ago I havn't been buying much UD, except for Spectrum of the Stars. UD was THE sport card company for a very long time and managed to push out everyone but Topps. I lost touch with that market and didn't know they are having these issues.

Hard to believe they could lose the baseball license. Pannini has just come on the scene and Topps is the only other big name. I guess the sports card market is going through major changes. Glad I really don't care anymore.

quote:

amid allegations of complicity in the manufacture of counterfeit goods

This was brought up about 5 or 6 years ago by an HBO special. They investigated the alligations that a huge number of the deceased player autographs added to cards (Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb etc.) are fake.. They guy who was arrested even went through photos of the cut signature cards and picked out which ones where his fake autographs..

I ALWAYS found it strange that so many autographs of certain ball players from pre 1940 existed..

More recently they have been accused of omplicity in counterfeit YUGIOH cards, and have been striped of the license to manufacturer them worldwide which they fought in court and lost. Thats on top of the allegations you are talking about. The Yu Gi Oh market was massive for those unaware of the impact this had on the company, at $3-3.50 per pack is was a massive revenue stream for UD and its lose had a massive impact on the company.

The link given above is not the only source for the allegations btw, and when you think about just how much Brian Gray has had to say about everything else do you not find it odd that he has nothing to say about this?

Can you remove the card(s) from the Razor Ink holder? I'm not really familiar with these types of holders, so I didn't want to damage the card when trying to remove it.

Thanks guys

quote:

Originally posted by Darth Vader Fan:
Can you remove the card(s) from the Razor Ink holder? I'm not really familiar with these types of holders, so I didn't want to damage the card when trying to remove it.

Thanks guys

They're just held together by the small round magnets at one end... carefully pry them apart.

<html>

<body>

<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><b>RAZOR INK VAULT - INKWORKS
REDEMPTION CARD PROMOTION</b><o>
</o>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><o>
Dear </font><font face="Arial" size="3">Razor Customers, </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3">Thank you so much for your
support of Ink Vault.  <br>
We understand how frustrating it is to pull a redemption card from a company
that is out of business.  <br>
As a way of saying thank you for all of your support, the first 1,000 customers
who send in their InkWorks <br>
redemption card along with a Self Addressed Stamp Envelope will receive a
special <br>
Razor Collectibles 5 card promo pack.  <br>
We appreciate all of the customer comments and feedback, as always feel free to
drop us an email anytime.<o>
</o>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><o>
Thank You,</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3">Razor Entertainment Group<br>
<br>
10835 Sanden Drive<br>
Dallas, TX  75238</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font face="Arial" size="2">**Please note that we are
not responsible for items lost in the mail. Thank you</font></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" src="http://www.razorcollectibles.com/national_promo_set_09.jpg" width="693" height="187"></p>

</body>

</html>

RAZOR INK VAULT - INKWORKS REDEMPTION CARD PROMOTION

Dear Razor Customers,

Thank you so much for your support of Ink Vault. We understand how frustrating it is to pull a redemption card from a company that is out of business. As a way of saying thank you for all of your support, the first 1,000 customers who send in their InkWorks redemption card along with a Self Addressed Stamp Envelope will receive a special Razor Collectibles 5 card promo pack. We appreciate all of the customer comments and feedback, as always feel free to drop us an email anytime.

Thank You,

Razor Entertainment Group
10835 Sanden Drive
Dallas, TX 75238

**Please note that we are not responsible for items lost in the mail. Thank you

quote:

Originally posted by MRBONG411:
I have just got back into collecting after about 10 years of not collecting and this thread amazes me.

Here we have Adam saying no comment to some very important questions aabout these cards and this product.

Then there is proof from someone that some of the high end cards were being listed on ebay and not even inserted into packs and no one seems to care very much?

Wow. Amazing.

Says the guy who one minute tried to sue Topps for an error A-Rod Autograph card without the Autograph card for 2 Grand that he paid $50 for than the next minute Tries to get a job working for them seeking out error cards for them.