Dare I mention that GOT Bella Ramsey’s have shot up since The Last of Us premiered….

A Rodney Mullen Allen and Ginter autograph just sold for $220.


This was from March 2021:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Rodney Mullen Allen and Ginter Auto $147 254912744651

I bought one of these a year ago for ~$30

Here is the bid history . . . 4 different bidders at $135 or more:

s***f(667feedback score: 667) $147.50 30 Mar 2021 at 7:50:18pm PDT
4***2(75feedback score: 75) $145.00 30 Mar 2021 at 7:50:19pm PDT
8***5(113feedback score: 113) $145.00 30 Mar 2021 at 7:50:19pm PDT
b***s(2987feedback score: 2987) $135.00 30 Mar 2021 at 7:50:16pm PDT

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

Prices on 1966 Batman Black Bat card #1 continue to shock me.

Here is a PSA1 that sold for nearly $100: 285192157673. This card has a visible crease, rounded corners and someone wrote their name on the front.

I have never PSA'd a card but I imagine takes time and money, why would anyone spend that effort on such a poor card? Quite baffling.

I personally believe that the only reason people get cards graded is that they believe it makes the card worth more.

I've seen people give lots of other reasons for grading, but I think the basis of all grading ultimately is $$$.

quote:

Originally posted by drofdarb:
I have never PSA'd a card but I imagine takes time and money, why would anyone spend that effort on such a poor card? Quite baffling.

I don't know what grading costs, but they probably turned a $10 card into a $100 card in this instance (I'm not even sure what the Batman card might be worth in general, just a guess).

That Batman card is the best card in the iconic 1966 Batman set. It is card #1, which is always going to be the most condition sensitive card in any vintage set, and it has the perfect Batman picture. For vintage cards, the first and last card in the set were always the ones most likely to be damaged by storage, wear, use and rubber bands. There is always a premium added to those cards in higher grade conditions and even very poor grades have added value.

Now this particular card has been destroyed, and the best you can say is that it is still intact. But it is whole, and it has the poorest grade possible. That might be enough for a collector who just wants an example. Is $100 really so much money for a card these days, if you really want it?

I myself did something similar long ago with a Mars Attacks #1 card. I saw it at a show and didn't have any of the original cards. This was back before grading was popular and it was raw. It wasn't in awful condition, but it wasn't near mint either. I would guess a 5, maybe a 6 if lucky. I really can't recall what I paid, but it was more than a lot of better recent cards that I could have spent it on at the time. I just wanted to have that really iconic card. I still have it.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I personally believe that the only reason people get cards graded is that they believe it makes the card worth more.

I can't think of any other reason. Possibly to secure a grade separate from various observation. One persons 8 is another's 7.
The obvious equation is that the increased value covers the cost of grading while adding additional value. If the value is going
to increase only in the result of a 10 I would wait until the scale is a bit more in my favor. A 6 or 7 should also make grading worth
my time and money.


Is a ramp curve with a low 1 to a high 9/10 (meaning most of the graded cards are a 9 or 10) even considered to be a healthy value scale in collecting?

Prior to all of this madness the grade scales would typically peak somewhere between 6 and 8 and then drop considerably.

If better card technology, the collectible protection industry and grading cards as soon as they are opened is going to ensure that practically every card is between an 8 or 10, then is a 10 really all that valuable? Seems to me that fewer 10's aid in the value set, not more.

What are we doing to the scale once the hype is gone?

Grading works for expensive vintage cards to ensure that they aren't a counterfeit or may have been repaired/restored to improve their appearance. It's also advisable if an expensive modern card has been known to have counterfeit or forgery issues. There is a place for grading and authenticating cards, but only with the right cards.

You can talk a lot about the benefits of purely condition grading, and it may have started out with good intentions, but the system has been corrupted at every level. I honestly think that most experienced card collectors know the abuses going on by now, but the system still increases the asking prices for higher graded cards. Until the profit margin goes away because not enough people will buy slabbed cards, the hobby will turn a blind eye to it all.

One thing non-sport card collectors can be proud of is that graded cards are a lot more important to the sport card collectors.

There is a Peter Jackson autograph, LOTR, ROTK update card for sale slabbed at a 7.

£6000, that's six thousand pounds.

God knows what a 10 would be up for.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
There is a Peter Jackson autograph, LOTR, ROTK update card for sale slabbed at a 7.

£6000, that's six thousand pounds.

God knows what a 10 would be up for.

What's funny about grading is that for a modern card a 7 would actually hurt the value. Anything below a 9 and a graded card collector wouldn't touch it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
What's funny about grading is that for a modern card a 7 would actually hurt the value. Anything below a 9 and a graded card collector wouldn't touch it.

This is true. For certain cards that are condition sensitive, grades of 8 and above might be acceptable. For most modern cards, only grades of 9 and above are in demand. Get a 7 back on a card that was collectible from day of release and chances are you'll get more money for it if you bust out the slab and sell it raw.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
There is a Peter Jackson autograph, LOTR, ROTK update card for sale slabbed at a 7.

£6000, that's six thousand pounds.

God knows what a 10 would be up for.

What's funny about grading is that for a modern card a 7 would actually hurt the value. Anything below a 9 and a graded card collector wouldn't touch it.

Wait - A LOTR card is not modern? OMG, I'm old!!! LOL!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jessica:

Wait - A LOTR card is not modern? OMG, I'm old!!! LOL!!!

Someone posted a picture of an early Star Wars sketch card and talked about how it was -- I think the word used was ancient. Uhh. . . what?

The classification of cards by year of manufacture is an interesting subject that has no definitive consensus among card collectors. At present, as far as I know, there are only two choices. "Vintage" and "modern".

The breaking year between those two choices is up for debate. I've heard people say 1959, 1969, 1979 and 1989. Some may even say 1999. I believe it's 1969 myself. Anything before 1970 is vintage and what's after must be modern. That's just my opinion, but I would also cutoff modern at the year 2009 and make a third category of maybe something like "post-modern" or "current" for 2010 and after.

I say this because the technology involved in making cards and the way card products are assembled today, bear almost no resemblance to cards of the 80's or 90's or even early 2000's. How can they all be "modern" when you are comparing sets like Star Wars 1977 to cards like the high end Stellar Star Wars made today? "Modern" is old too, and should be classified as a category that has ended.

Unfortunately like many aspects of the non-sport card hobby, there is no governing body and card collectors themselves seldom agree on things like hobby terms or rules. I wish Beckett would take a hard look at better defining these card years, because the Non-Sport Almanac also divides cards by "vintage" and "modern", and it seems to make the break at 1979. That's fine too, but there really needs to be a third section for those cards in the last 10 - 15 years or so that have left "modern" in the dust.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
At present, as far as I know, there are only two choices. "Vintage" and "modern".

I'm surprised you've never heard "pre-war" as a descriptor. Or seen tobacco cards described as being from the "N-card era" or "T-card era".

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
At present, as far as I know, there are only two choices. "Vintage" and "modern".

I'm surprised you've never heard "pre-war" as a descriptor. Or seen tobacco cards described as being from the "N-card era" or "T-card era".

No, I've never had anyone say "pre-war" to me. Which war?

Tobacco cards I know, but that's more associated with the size and source, cigarettes, isn't it? "N-card era" or "T-card era", you'd have to explain what years those cover, as again nobody has ever used that thermology with me. Of course I never tried to collect tobacco era cards either.

I would think that all those terms, if specific card collectors use them, would still fall under the broader umbrella of "vintage" cards. No?

You have some learning to do. There is such a rich history of non-sports cards that all collectors, new or old, need to explore. I think you will enjoy learning about the history of our hobby.

According to Beckett's Non-Sport Almanac, which I would assume is a good enough source for anyone, both "Pre-War" and "Post-War" cards are listed in the Vintage card section. That's because they fall under vintage.

Tobacco cards don't seem to be listed as such in the Almanac, perhaps because many of them were done for sports figures of their time and don't belong with non-sport. I never collected them, so I have no idea about era lettering or years. Someone with such knowledge might be willing to answer such questions. However tobacco cards, by virtue of their age, would also have to be "vintage".

As I said, there never seems to be a consensus among card collectors, but the only two sections in the Almanac besides the special titles is for "vintage" and "modern" cards. I would propose a third class for more recent cards of 2010 and after, but that isn't happening.

The N-card era means cards from the nineteenth century tobacco and the T-card era means cards from the twentieth century tobacco as devised by Jefferson Burdick in his American card Catalogue. He used other letters for Bakery, Food and Gum to name a few. Also note that most of the tobacco cards issued in America consisted of almost every topic under the sun, the number baseball card sets was relatively small (less than twenty) yet because of the publicity of couple of cards being rare (Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb) the general public are not really aware of any other cards being issued.

It is likely that a pre-war reference probably means pre 1914 as the majority of American cigarette cards were issued prior to that date.

I believe that the definition of vintage is usually described as something that is more than 20 years old but less than 100 years, antique is something that is more than 100 years old and I believe modern could be classed as something less than 20 years old.

regards

John