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Are Rittenhouse destroying the hobby?
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Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Raj
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
quote:
Originally posted by Raj:
If dealers can't sell base sets because they're too expensive then they can always reduce the price.


Thats the point though Raj, they can't reduce the price as it cost them so much to buy the premium packs.


Of course they can. They can't tie up cash for long periods of time on stock they can't shift because it's too expensive. Cash flow is important.

Perhaps you've heard the term 'market forces'.
 
Posts: 3261 | Location: Luton, UK | Registered: October 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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Fair enough but if they have to sell the base sets off at a loss then they will not buy the next premium release.

There are not many people in my experiance walking around shows looking to spend £30 on a base set.

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Posts: 29023 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Raj
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
Fair enough but if they have to sell the base sets off at a loss then they will not buy the next premium release.

There are not many people in my experiance walking around shows looking to spend £30 on a base set.


There's a point of diminishing returns. I'm not saying they should reduce the price immediately but there comes a point where keeping something in stock at a price they can't sell the item is costing them money. Every time you pack it up and cart it to the next show where it's unlikely to sell costs time & money. It ties up cash that can't be spent on the another release.

Also, they're only making a loss selling the base sets at reduced prices if they haven't already made their money back on the chase cards.
 
Posts: 3261 | Location: Luton, UK | Registered: October 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Graham
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Premium packs have brought the hobby back to when I first started collecting - the base set had to be chased. The sets will sell because, like the other chase cards, there isn't an instant fix as you have with a traditional box.
 
Posts: 3804 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: April 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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I like both regular and premium packs.

I do wonder about the argument for premium packs. I don't really see how some shows would only work as a premium pack format. Seems to me if a show can support a premium pack release they could support a regular pack release.
 
Posts: 860 | Location: Alaska | Registered: May 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Stargaterules
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Correct me if i am wrong . The more images a card company uses for a set the more they pay for it . Also it takes longer to produce a bigger set. That costs more money and people to make such sets . So if that is the logic behind Premium format , You have to produce more boxes that may not sell out to make the money back . So companies have to decide what may or may not sell out to get the licence for certain shows . A loss of money on product would close the doors to most companies and some shows would never get sets ever or again depending .
 
Posts: 91 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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Had to stick my nose in this on as I've had this discussion with Steve until I'm blue in the face.

As much as people don't want to understand this this market is dying of old age. Look at the average age at Philly and you'll see what I mean. Lets see what were the big sellers this year. Vampire Diaries, Walking Dead, Big Bang
Therory. Cards aimed at younger people. I wouldn't say collectors, because most of these people have no idea what card collecting is about yet. We need to use these titles to get more people into collecting. Sets based on Star Trek, Bond and limited runs are not going to build the collector base. Inkworks did a great job of trying sets on unproven franchises. Unfortunatly, in the end it may have been their downfall. Anybody else hate the Spirit movie? But at least they tried. Premium sets are not the answer to get new collectors into the hobby. In fact he has had the opposite effect with a lot of my customers. They get frustrated at these overpriced impossible to make sets. Tell Rittenhouse to stop these sets. Most of the Dealers I know hate them, so please don't blame the dealers. Send Steve and Robert an E-mail to go back to making sets that are fun to collect!!!!!. It shouldn't take more that 3 boxes to get all the inserts. Reduce all these stupid who cares auto cards. End case incentives and Archive boxes. It devalues the cards when people buy cases to just get the rare stuff. Every auto should be in the box with a fair chance for everyone to get one.

Dave
 
Posts: 507 | Location: MA | Registered: December 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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finally someone (Mr. Moulder) understands the uselessness of these premium packs, my customers want a reasonably priced base set so they can enjoy feeding their family not spending $50 to $70 on 26 cards and loose the opportunity for a decent meal on the table - and yes it was enjoyable doing base set building but that was when single cards were a 10 cents - not $3 for a single base card - I think NOT
 
Posts: 198 | Location: United States | Registered: December 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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I don't get what you guys are saying at all. You still have a plethora of regular releases to choose from. I mean how many premium pack releases has Rittenhouse had really...half a dozen...I can only think of LOST Relics, Warehouse 13 Season 2, the two Spartacus sets, Eureka, the upcoming NCIS release, and the upcoming Falling Skies...so that's 7 out of how many releases
 
Posts: 860 | Location: Alaska | Registered: May 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Stargaterules
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Stargate Universe season 2 as well .. Sorry had to add that .. cough Also they have had a Star Trek series in Premium as well . I forget what one . It has been about 50% of their series out in the past year or so .
 
Posts: 91 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
I don't get what you guys are saying at all. You still have a plethora of regular releases to choose from. I mean how many premium pack releases has Rittenhouse had really...half a dozen...I can only think of LOST Relics, Warehouse 13 Season 2, the two Spartacus sets, Eureka, the upcoming NCIS release, and the upcoming Falling Skies...so that's 7 out of how many releases


What you don't understand is that there are people who will buy cards of television shows they watch but are not trading card collectors. I used to sell a TON of base sets at science fiction conventions to people who enjoyed having cards from Star Trek or Babylon 5. Many times these folks just wanted a set of cards with nice character images that they could get signed by the actors at various conventions. These people are not trading card collectors but are still an important part of the market. Luckily Breygent and Cryptozoic have stepped up and are now making products where the average person can get a base set for $10 - $15.

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Posts: 1343 | Location: Frederick, MD USA | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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yes only 7 releases are premium but they are important ones - I could sell 100 ncis sets, and tons of spartacus - but noooo star trek is still a regular box - who in the heck still wants star trek - dead and buried - at least in my customer base - any set placed in a premium back prevents a dealer from selling 11 to 23 sets of cards per issue - please try to explain how opening up a case of cards for $600 and only provide one person with 1 base set of cards is GOOOOD for our hobby - no don't bother explaining it because i will NEVER BELIEVE IT
 
Posts: 198 | Location: United States | Registered: December 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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and what people who buy trading card sets for the shows they watch are not collectors!!!!! r u kidding of course they are - they are COLLECTING the cards of a TV show that provides them with enjoyment - enjoyment is an INHERENT part of the hobby is it not - I buy things I like - I do not buy okra because I hate it, I do not buy DEXTER cards because the show is VILE I buy cards that I like & that my customers like
 
Posts: 198 | Location: United States | Registered: December 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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From a collector's stand point, one base set is all I need. I'm not a dealer. I could care less if I get a dozen base sets in a case or one set in a premium card release. It sounds like you are trying to say that Rittenhouse is killing the hobby for the hybrid dealer/collector because they are not providing enough cards for the collector part to be able to keep everything he wants, and then the dealer part sell everything else in hopes of making some of the cost back.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuck Bartowski,
 
Posts: 860 | Location: Alaska | Registered: May 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of TC00
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quote:
Originally posted by Pumpkindiver:
It just seems that these premium pack sets are designed to keep dealers happy but low end (non master set collectors) are totally turned off. The fact that base set cards are rarer than costumes for Eureka just puzzles me. Personally I would really like a base set for NCIS, Falling Skies, Eureka, Warehouse 13 and SGU 2. Normally I would complete a mini master set and pick up the Auto/Costume/Relics that interest me, Now it seems that thanks to dealers complaining about getting hundreds of base sets, the average collector is being totally forgotten. I'm so glat that Cryptozoic have come along and are releasing standard sets (even if the chase sets are quite dull and top end auto's are really tough to come by)

Sorry, I've had my rant now


I completely agree with all of the above! With regards to Cryptozoic I think (hope) they are starting out like Inkworks did where autos and the like became easier (although not compeletly - that would be boring) to come by as they became more established and worked out kinks in manufacturing and changed their stratagies with subsquent sets.

Oh and RHA have never really released a set I've been that into. I've bought packs (and maybe 1 box??) here and there from various sets (pulled some good cards) but generally not a massive fan of their company (Despite the great licences they get).
 
Posts: 937 | Location: UK | Registered: December 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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I strongly prefer premium packs. In fact I have thousands of base sets (literally) that I've tried selling/trading here and there had I get very little response. Beyond, perhaps, a single base set for myself I just don't want to open more boxes with a lot of what will ultimately amount to clutter around my house.

At this rate there are tons of regular sets and premium sets, so I don't see how anything is killing anything else, in fact the prices on a lot of high end cards are skyrocketing lately, the highest prices for the best cards are among the highest they've ever been. . .

It looks to me like the hobby is on a strong comeback in the last several months.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
I strongly prefer premium packs. In fact I have thousands of base sets (literally) that I've tried selling/trading here and there had I get very little response. Beyond, perhaps, a single base set for myself I just don't want to open more boxes with a lot of what will ultimately amount to clutter around my house.

At this rate there are tons of regular sets and premium sets, so I don't see how anything is killing anything else, in fact the prices on a lot of high end cards are skyrocketing lately, the highest prices for the best cards are among the highest they've ever been. . .

It looks to me like the hobby is on a strong comeback in the last several months.


Completely agree with this.
 
Posts: 860 | Location: Alaska | Registered: May 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Ryan Cracknell
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Moulder:
Had to stick my nose in this on as I've had this discussion with Steve until I'm blue in the face.

As much as people don't want to understand this this market is dying of old age. Look at the average age at Philly and you'll see what I mean. Lets see what were the big sellers this year. Vampire Diaries, Walking Dead, Big Bang
Therory. Cards aimed at younger people. I wouldn't say collectors, because most of these people have no idea what card collecting is about yet. We need to use these titles to get more people into collecting. Sets based on Star Trek, Bond and limited runs are not going to build the collector base. Inkworks did a great job of trying sets on unproven franchises. Unfortunatly, in the end it may have been their downfall. Anybody else hate the Spirit movie? But at least they tried. Premium sets are not the answer to get new collectors into the hobby. In fact he has had the opposite effect with a lot of my customers. They get frustrated at these overpriced impossible to make sets. Tell Rittenhouse to stop these sets. Most of the Dealers I know hate them, so please don't blame the dealers. Send Steve and Robert an E-mail to go back to making sets that are fun to collect!!!!!. It shouldn't take more that 3 boxes to get all the inserts. Reduce all these stupid who cares auto cards. End case incentives and Archive boxes. It devalues the cards when people buy cases to just get the rare stuff. Every auto should be in the box with a fair chance for everyone to get one.

Dave


I'm a little unclear on your stance here. First you acknowledge that traditional collectors are getting older (which I would agree with) but then you're against a company trying to target new people? Are we supposed to let it die then just to keep it "how it was"?

How can having a variety of products at different price levels be a bad thing? I can see the frustration for those who must have everything from every single set. I gave that up a while ago and have found even more enjoyment.

How many 81-card Star Trek base sets does someone really need?

There is a huge market waiting to tap into this market and I think we're seeing this. Sports collectors are an easy target. They already collect cards. That has its own set of advantages and disadvantages.

The hobby will never be perfect for everyone. It can't be. My advice - collect what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it, ignore it. Pretend it doesn't exist. It makes everything so much more fun.

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Posts: 1178 | Location: Nanaimo, BC | Registered: November 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by sherlock2:
and what people who buy trading card sets for the shows they watch are not collectors!!!!! r u kidding of course they are - they are COLLECTING the cards of a TV show that provides them with enjoyment - enjoyment is an INHERENT part of the hobby is it not - I buy things I like - I do not buy okra because I hate it, I do not buy DEXTER cards because the show is VILE I buy cards that I like & that my customers like


People who collect cards from Warehouse 13 (for example) and only Warehouse 13 are not, in my opinion trading card collectors. Especially if they only care about the base set and not all the chase/autograph/costume cards. Those people are collectors/fans of Warehouse 13 merchandise.

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Posts: 1343 | Location: Frederick, MD USA | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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so the only true collectors are the ones that can spend $1500 on a complete set - R U KIDDING - then I must say I am not a collector and probably 85 to 90% of the people on this group also fall into your non collector definition - and only 3 of my customers are collectors and the rest just must be people that like to part with their money to acquire pieces of thin cardboard
 
Posts: 198 | Location: United States | Registered: December 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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