I haven't purchased sports cards for years, aside from a few random packs of UFC cards at Target every now and again. When I did still buy them, which was up until right after I was married so it was 10+ years ago, there would be kids busting packs in the store and searching through the price guides to see how 'valuable' their pulls were. When I student taught at a middle school, the kids would play Yu-Gi-Oh and would spend more time talking about their 'rares' than they would actually playing. Kids do still want want big pulls, but they don't seem to want the same things that I do -- they want rare cards, but not autographs. They want big pulls, but they don't have the means to drop $200 on eBay to get their World of Warcraft spectral tigers.

quote:

Originally posted by Nicnac:
But then, is the problem that kids expect hits? When I was a kid, it was enough to open 1 or 2 card packs using my hard earned pocket money and find new BASES that I didn't have, or extras I could actually trade for those I didn't have. Now, I can imagine, kids are like me. If there isn't a chase in a certain amount of packs, I ain't risking my money.

I agree with you, but I think there is another aspect that you are missing. I've had three phases of card collecting, with breaks in between. The first one was when I was young and collected cards from the first Star Trek DS9 set (I think that they were a Skybox release?) and cards from the Power Rangers Movie. The problem was that the only other person I knew who collected trading cards was my sister and she wasn't into the trading part of the hobby. Without anyone else to socially interact and trade with, I kind of burnt out on the hobby and started something that had more interest.

I think that, while having hits in the packs is important, and a definite advantage as a lure, the social aspect of trading: showing off collections, pulls, etc would be more about what keeps kids interested in non-sport. I think the problem is that it is much easier to get a youth interested in something if there is a friend that is getting interested in the same thing at the same time to socially interact with so the youth wont be alone in the experience. Therefore, I think the hard part is finding a way to market the hobby to multiple social groups and to individuals within that group, as well as having product availability in places where the hobby can be experienced socially.

I've just finished some research of my data base and, I am open to correction on this, but the first auto card was that of Chuck Jones from Comic Ball Ser.1 which was issued in 1990. Prior to that I do not record one. Even then they didn't become popular until 1993.

Sketch cards are even rarer with the first being a 1993 set called Defective Comics. After that there doesn't appear to be another until the Marvel Creators Collection '98 which had dozens of them. However, the concept didn't catch on and I don't record another sketch card until 2000.

For the whole of the period up to the year 2000 I do not record a Piecework or Costume card.

I knew that there was some reason I stopped collecting beyond 2000.

Between 1975 (an arbitrary date) and 2000 (inclusive) there are 1,136 sets that came in packs (i.e. this figure does not include box sets). These cards are, even today reasonably available and (usually)very cheap. The span is huge, with themes ranging from movies, TV, Fantasy Art, Comic Books through to War, Educational, Pop Music and every known superhero. Wouldn't you think that that was more than enough to entice children, new collectors and hardened 'oldies' to look at the back catelogue and to shun the overpriced, overrated stuff that they are currently releasing today?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by btlfannz:

Wouldn't you think that that was more than enough to entice children,

QUOTE]

But do they even know they exist?

Also kids want things connected with the tv shows they are watching now not for some show from before they were born.

This is why Harry Potter stickers and Dr Who cards are on sale in the shops here and the kids buy them. Another reason they buy them is they are 50p a pack or £1.50 a pack instead of the £4 a pack for Rittenhouse etc.

Why would a child spend £4 on a pack of cards and get 6 base cards when he can spend £1.50p on a pack of Dr Who that he just watched on tv and get a bunch of cards and a nice shiny card in every pack gauranteed.

I think there are the trading cards the we as adults collect, but then there are cards geared more towards kids that we are probably not really aware of because we aren't interested in those products. Pokemon was a huge craze not so long ago and kids everywhere were snapping up the cards. Then there was Digimon and Yugioh and now I don't know Ben 10, are there cards for this show?

I think little kids say under 10 can be quite interested in cards, but the products released by our fave companies aren't really aimed at children. The big gap is the teenage years, that's when kids don't really want to be "kids" and would rather do adult things and collecting cards is seen as a childhood hobby. Then of course they get into their 20's and beyond and realise all the much cooler card products out there and want to buy up left, right and centre.

Though I don't know if that will happen to this generation with the internet being so prevelant in their lives. I mean the first time I used the internet I was 12 and in year 8, now kids start using the internet before they're even 5 years old. Social Networking is the important thing for kids these days.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
I've just finished some research of my data base and, I am open to correction on this, but

Sketch cards are even rarer with the first being a 1993 set called Defective Comics. After that there doesn't appear to be another until the Marvel Creators Collection '98 which had dozens of them. However, the concept didn't catch on and I don't record another sketch card until 2000.

Actually you are missing a number of sketch cards: Simpsons, Bone, Groo, Ken Kelly 1 are all early sets with sketch cards.

Of course Ultra Spider-Man '97 lead in to
Marvel Creator's Collection was followed up immediately with Marvel Silver Age -- another sketch base set. After that there was a lull in sketch cards for a couple of years, but that was not due to the popularity of sketch cards.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
I've just finished some research of my data base and, I am open to correction on this, but the first auto card was that of Chuck Jones from Comic Ball Ser.1 which was issued in 1990. Prior to that I do not record one. Even then they didn't become popular until 1993.

I wouldn't say auto's didn't become popular until 1993 -- there were several sets put out by Comic Images and Star Pics in this period that had autographs -- I think all of these are from 1991. . . All My Children, Saturday Night Live, Boris 1, X-Force, X-Men, etc.

They need xbox live achievements in trading cards LOL

~Gotta Get 'em All Trophy: Collect all prism foils~

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nicnac,

So the thing is now, how do we get 8-13yr olds and older interested right?
We have cards geared towards, the younger children from what I've read, Dr Who, Harry Potter etc.

But I think the card companies have to start thinking about where these kids spend most of their time. And I think Nicnac is going down the right track.

Back in the old days kids bought comics, so it naturally went to collecting trading cards involving their favourite characters whether it be DC or Marvel.
These days kids are obsessed with video games, whether it be PC, Xbox or PS3. Alot of the most popular games are multi-platform, all I have to do is ask my brother who is a total hard core PC nut. He loves Call of Duty, Company of Heroes, Medal of Honor, Assassin's Creed, Portal, Bioshock, Crysis, Left4Dead, Uncharted the list goes on. They are all online multi-player games that he plays with his 'Clan' and he is always going on about all the young kids who play that "cry like babies" when things don't go their way(they have microphone chat, so he hears everything everyone says) and he tells me from what he reads on his forums the Xbox and PS3 online gaming is mainly all little kids playing.

So I think card companies have to start thinking outside the box and about doing sets for those sort of games, no Costume cards, Sketches or Autos just different levels of chase like back in the old days.
But if you look at some of those games and the people who voice the characters, there is an amazing line up of stars that we would recognize.
Heck I know for a fact if someone did a Bioshock card set, my brother who doesn't collect cards at all anymore would do what ever he could to get his hands on them, he's so obsessed with that game.

And if they stocked these in the gaming shops where the kids buy their games(I know you're going to say 'but they download their games these days' my brother doesn't and he refuses to do so) I think it would open up card collecting to a whole new group of people that didn't even know trading card existed.

So all in all, I think card companies have to start thinking about who they are catering to in the releases that they currently have, most of the licenses that are released at the moment are definitely for the adult collector that has the money to buy boxes or cases, but I seriously think they should consider licensing games to bring in a whole new age group.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Juelle Lou,

The days of children collecting non-sport cards is long gone. The fees that a manufacturer has to pay for a license makes it cost prohibitive to make just a card set with nothing in it. It can cost anywhere from $25,000 to $250,000 and maybe even more for a license. There is no way to make the money back on just a set. So the manufacturers are forced to load up the boxes or premium packs with as much as it takes to get an adult collector interested, or make 20 issues of the same title. This is sad but unfortunately true. Plus, with promo card collectors going to the shows just to get free promos and not supporting the maufacturers and the hobby, it is obvious that the hobby is in trouble. And please don't defend them. I was at Philly handing out promos for a manufacturer and almost every person that came to get the cards didn't even say hello. Just "I'm here for the promos" or are you the one giving out free promos? No bags in hand filled with sets and wax, just a small plastic box to put the cards in and their want list. This is why the hobby is doomed. And yes, I wrote about this in NSU and yes you can all hate me for the truth, but I didn't even get thank you's from most of the people lined up for the promos. I also blame the manufacturers. We don't need promos to "advertise" a set. There is enough talk about new releases on the internet and Card Talk. It is time to force collectors back to reality so they understand what is happening. But no one wants to admit this. I have been involved with non-sport cards, either colecting, selling, buying or manufacturing for 35 years and I am seeing the hobby slowly slip away. Until we all agree to do something to save this hobby as a group, there is little hope for a strong future. Yes, people will continue to colect what is out there, but at some point, manufacturers will have to throw in the towel.
There is no way they can continue to pay huge licensing fees, manufacturing costs and do the research that goes along with making a card set and expect to turn a profit. So if we want to outlive this hobby, it is time to fix it. We all have to chip in.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
"It is time to force collectors back to reality...."

That sounds a little fascistic to me. Who is going to force ME into this "reality?"

I took a little offense to your rant because I was one of those people that were hunting promos and putting them in an acrylic box. I know you don't even know who I am, but rest assured...I ALWAYS say "thank you", especially when I get something for free. Maybe you should have said, "your welcome" {sarcastically} whenever somebody didn't say thank you ? I do it all the time, because some people are just plain rude.

I also had to take several trips out to my car, to empty the merchandise I bought, throughout BOTH days at the show. So seeing people without bags would probably not be indicative of anything dubious.

I won't say how much I spent because it's all relative to each individual, but I will tell you this...I drove 7 hours to get there. Had the expense of all that gas, hotel, meals, admission, purchasing sketch cards, old common sets, old chase sets, inserts, and yes...even PURCHASING old promo cards. I'm not a rich man by any means. Heck, I've been unemployed for well over a year now {without taking any government hand-outs either}, so if I've done all that for a couple of pieces of free paper...then maybe I am the fool.

I got back into this hobby about a year ago after a 15 year hiatus. Things have gotten very expensive and things have changed from the 'good old days'. I CAN NOT afford boxes of trading cards that costs hundreds of dollars. And I won't buy premium packs either. $25 to $35 for a pack of trading cards is just to rich for my blood. Some people can...more power to them.

As for manufactures handing out free promos...it's their call if they want to do it or not. I hope they continue to do it. It was one of the big draws to this Philly Show....the promos. For months prior, on the forums, everyone was talking about the amount of promos that were going to be given out. Everyone from the top on down. That's what they are there for. It's a comp, a draw-in, a PROMOTIONAL item! Manufacturers understand this {or at least they should}. It part of their advertising. Like the old saying goes, "you have to spend money to make it."

Myself, I personally witnessed a dealer, go over to the RA table and take an entire STACK of cards, not just from one set, but from each available set. So I don't feel to bad if I asked, POLITELY, for an extra card or two.

Also, on late Sunday afternoon, I saw manufacturers giving out stacks to dealers. Even to the dealer that I saw grab those stacks of cards earlier. I don't have a problem with it. That's what they are there for... getting them circulated out to the public. It's cheaper for manufacturers to give them away and let others trade, sell, or give them away, and disperse them throughout the community. Who wants to pay all that postage? I wouldn't.

I just think this hobby is in trouble from a multitude of reasons. And IF giving out free promos, at shows, is one of those problems {which I highly doubt} it's very low on that list, my friend.

Peace and long life,
Fred

I think the big 'miss' for promos is that they aren't given out at big comic conventions anymore.

And I'm not talking about having to ask a dealer for 'em. . .

People who are out collecting promos already know about the hobby, and certainly they can have a purpose in marketing to current collectors. . .

But why don't we see promo packs, or even promos given out to *every* attendee at big shows like Wizard World / C2E2 (I can't speak for other cons as I haven't been recently).

This is a captive audience that is already interested in the culture, and likely a collector.

Why wasn't Upper Deck giving out Thor promos at C2E2? Hemsworth was the guest of honor!?!

I can already see where this topic is going to veer off into an argument about the pros and cons of promo cards.

Why not start another thread? Its certainly an issue worth discussing, but the future of the hobby hardly depends on those few things that are free, and I am actually enjoying reading the ideas and opinions that are being expressed here.

I'll only say one thing about promos. The manufacturers who do make them must think they work, or they would go the way of Upper Deck and Topps and not make any promos for the majority of the sets they make. There, done.

My observations are from the Motor City Comic Con two weeks ago, the same weekend as Allentown. It's a completly different vibe because not everyone in the door collects cards. But it does expose a whole group of people interested in comics and media guests to what is out there if you try to get the word out.

Some Observations:

1) Price is not the barrier we think it is. Kids and teens were more than willing to pay $4 a pack for Pokemon, YuGiOh, and Magic cards.

2) Packs of cards do sell well. I sold 2 boxes of Wacky Packages by the pack as well as a LOT of Hello Kitty and Star Wars Clone Wars packs. Note, all of these are retail releases the kids had seen at other places (probably Target) and they knew what they were wanting.

3) People do buy base sets. At card shows, most of the collectors already have the base set, so they don't sell. At a comic con, people are finding Dexter, Star Wars, and Marvel cards they had never seen before. Best sellers: Marvel sets, Simpsons sets, and Family Guy sets. Go figure.

So the challenge is to keep the hobby relevent and accessable. Target does a good job with retail offerings. They have even started carrying more blasters and even boxes of non-sport cards. It's too bad we can't get next to the register at Wal-Marts, 7-11, or any convenience type store. That's one thing missing from the old days.

But the message I brought back from Detroit was that people were interested if you tell them about what you have. But most of them remain ignorant of the non-sport offerings. I'm sorry Beamer, but websites and Card Talk will only sell cards to people already in the hobby. We need to promote the hobby outside where it is now. And promos in the appropriate places are a good thing. Dang, I wasn't going to mention promos again.

Ed

[quote/]
Actually you are missing a number of sketch cards: Simpsons, Bone, Groo, Ken Kelly 1 are all early sets with sketch cards.

Of course Ultra Spider-Man '97 lead in to
Marvel Creator's Collection was followed up immediately with Marvel Silver Age -- another sketch base set. After that there was a lull in sketch cards for a couple of years, but that was not due to the popularity of sketch cards.[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected! However, although there were auto cards around in the early 90's they were in no way anything like as popular as they are today.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
I stand corrected! However, although there were auto cards around in the early 90's they were in no way anything like as popular as they are today.

Of course! But in the 1990s holograms were selling for what autographs sell for now. Regular holograms were $8-15, Skydisc holograms were $60-100+

While there weren't specifically autographs in every release, there was a more-or-less equivalently valued chase set when adjusted for the price of a box.

quote:

Originally posted by Sidewinder:

Are there any pre teens/teenagers interested in trading cards anymore? I know I only collected them when I was still in primary school, but grew out of it before I entered high school.

The way I see for kids today this would be an "uncool" hobby and anyone into it would be the geeky kid at school without any friends. I'd like to know in 10 -15 years time what the kids of today will be collecting or if they are collecting anything at all.

Yes there are. I am currently 18 and have been collecting for over five/six years now. My sister, currently 16, has been collecting for about three years or so.

I have always liked collecting things. Before my card hobby, I collected coins. I wasn't the die-hard collector I would have liked to be because I do come from a low-income family and some hobbies can be quite expensive. Which to this day is why I limit myself to which sets I collect. Well one day I was browsing through the net and found that my all-time favorite show Charmed had magazines published. I bought an issue and to my surprise came two promo cards with my order. My face absolutely lit up when I learned there were trading cards out there. I immediately researched the sets and soon I sold my coin collection to start my Charmed trading card collection. I come from a section of Boston and there aren't shops around here that sell non-sport cards so I was limited to ebay. A couple months later I found this site and as I started trading I started collecting more sets. I used to collect Buffy and Angel, but I didn't have the money to pursue collecting them all the way through. Now that I'm in college I am really tight on money an even thinking of giving up my Supernatural set because I am just so close to wrapping up my charmed sets.

I was just voicing my opinion and there is always someone who takes it personally. Freddy, if you read what I wrote, I didn't say everyone was rude, but most people were. You obviously were the exception to the rule. How can you take offense to what I write when I am telling you something that actually happened? I was there too. I watched many (not all) people going from dealer to dealer getting the promos. I would hope most people would respect my feelings, right or wrong, and not being chastised for being honest. Yes, It would have been nice if people would have tried to strike up a conversation with me and yes, a THANK YOU IS ALWAYS NICE. But I am sorry you took this to heart. It is a blog to voice your opinions and feelings. Simple. If you spoke to me and said thank you, I guarantee you 2 things, you definately got a response back, and maybe even got a couple of extra promos for being nice. Rest asssured, this was not directed to you specifically.
Thanks for listening.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
I was just voicing my opinion and there is always someone who takes it personally. Freddy, if you read what I wrote, I didn't say everyone was rude, but most people were. You obviously were the exception to the rule. How can you take offense to what I write when I am telling you something that actually happened? I was there too. I watched many (not all) people going from dealer to dealer getting the promos. I would hope most people would respect my feelings, right or wrong, and not being chastised for being honest. Yes, It would have been nice if people would have tried to strike up a conversation with me and yes, a THANK YOU IS ALWAYS NICE. But I am sorry you took this to heart. It is a blog to voice your opinions and feelings. Simple. If you spoke to me and said thank you, I guarantee you 2 things, you definately got a response back, and maybe even got a couple of extra promos for being nice. Rest asssured, this was not directed to you specifically.
Thanks for listening.

I have no problem with people voicing their opinions. I do it too...when the need arrives.

Fred

Really great thread here! All good points have been made. I was one with the unpopular opinion that multiple autographs and pricey chase cards in boxes was a bad thing. Always felt it promoted the "gotta have it all NOW" culture and gave little respect to the actually common card set. My question was "Are you a card collector or an autograph collector?" Boy, you wanna feel the hate, just keep sayin stuff like that! I like chase cards, just not pay up for guaranteed sure thing this many blingy cards. Now everyone's in retrospective analysis of "What happened?". While the high price of boxes/cases saddled with the crappy economy killed everything, those pricey boxes probably propped up the hobby for 5 years. But it was all gonna crash again anyway, like it did in the 1980's. History repeats itself again and again. Cards will never go away completely, and they'll get popular again. Just support all those card producers making new product now.