Orginally posted by pandemonium: "I don't know which is the rarest.

But what is the MOST VALUABLE promo card on that list"

I think pandemonium hit it right on the nose in his post. As with most things, I believe it is not so much the rarity ie; the number of a certain promo card that still exists but rather, what is a collector willing to pay for it.
For example, there may only be a handful of the Desert Storm promo sets Beamer discusses in his post(a set I do not even own 1 card from) but how many collectors are willing to pay $125.00 per card as each is listed for in PCE. I know I wouldn't eventhough I consider myself an advanced promo card collector not because the set isn't ultra rare but rather because the topic itself is not something that I would die for.(pun intended)
On the other hand I would be willing to spend several hundred dollars for ONE Superman SW1 (this is not an offer to buy or sell said card in violation of this board's rules) although there are reportedly 1,500 of them out there or 15 times as many as were produced of the Desert Storm promos. Why?? I love super heroes and I believe it to be rare since I haven't been able to find it since it came out in 1994.
Thus, there is an enormous difference between rarity and ultimate value. Nevertheless, there are, as was pointed out in this thread's poll, a number of promo cards which are very valuable. Most people are not fools and therefore follow prices of the cards they want to purchase before buying. .In my opinion, any promo card for which collectors, be they exclusive promo collectors or set completists, are willing to pay over $100.00 for, is both a rare AND valuable promo card.. I have noticed over the last couple of years that many promo cards which were not necessarily considered rare or previously valuable have sold for some hefty sums. The one that comes to mind immediately is the Simpsons Series II Diamond P4 promo which recently sold for over $350.00.
One last comment which may create much debate. Other than the infamous Yoda P3 promo, I haven't heard of any other previously dubbed "rare" promo card having been found by the hundreds and being dumped for "pennies". There was a few years ago, for a short while, an individual who turned out to be the Bankruptcy Trustee for IMPEL who sold a few of the famous Little Mermaid pop-out promo on Ebay for less than $100.00. Within a couple of weeks following his first appearance, his entire remaining stock of 94 copies of that promo was purchased by one collector.
Now, are there now more than the couple dozen of those originally rumored to have survived? Obviously! But if only 125 or 150 exist in total, I would assert that it still makes that card very rare!! To underscore the point, how many of those pop-out cards have been offered for sale by anyone, anywhere since then?
I take exception with those who allege that some people are sitting on tons of "rare" and "Super-rare" promos without any backup to support their allegations. If there ever was a time when these alleged "hoarded" rare cards should have shown up, it would have been in the last year and a half when the economies of most Western countries, which is where all the card manufacturers and dealers live, have been in shamble. So many individuals are selling all types of valuables just to stay afloat and last I heard, there weren't many millionaire dealers, manufacturers or collectors in the non-sports arena who can just "sit" on their stash. finally, with Inkworks having gone out of business and with their stock having been purchased by a couple of people, how many regular sized Godzilla P1's have surfaced in the last 9 months for example???? If there were soooo many out there, they would have been touted on the internet and liquidated in the way many non-promo Inkworks autographed cards, even previously undistributed signed cards, have been.
Now, to answer the question, I am still missing form the top 10 the folowing cards:
Superman SW1
Desert Storm set
Speed Racer P3
And you?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: promoking,

does anyone have a picture of the SUPERMAN SW1 promo card?
I have never seen it before

To be honest, I never knew it existed until I came to this board

quote:

Originally posted by PaNdeM0niuM:
does anyone have a picture of the SUPERMAN SW1 promo card?
I have never seen it before

To be honest, I never knew it existed until I came to this board

The front is actually the same image as one of the base cards, Superman and WW kissing, if that helps

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
There was a few years ago, for a short while, an individual who turned out to be the Bankruptcy Trustee for IMPEL who sold a few of the famous Little Mermaid pop-out promo on Ebay for less than $100.00. Within a couple of weeks following his first appearance, his entire remaining stock of 94 copies of that promo was purchased by one collector.
Now, are there now more than the couple dozen of those originally rumored to have survived? Obviously! But if only 125 or 150 exist in total, I would assert that it still makes that card very rare!! To underscore the point, how many of those pop-out cards have been offered for sale by anyone, anywhere since then?

Wow! This is one of my "holy grail" cards and I didn't know any of this. Thanks for the information.

I agree that rarity and value aren't necessarily synonymous. I am lucky enough to own the Lion King SB1 and even luckier to have paid a lot less than what I would have expected (or been willing) to pay.

I am just glad that I was able to purchase my Little Mermaid Pop Up promo from that individual for under $5 I believe before that horrible collector snapped up the rest of them!

Albert, why is the Disney Classic Collectible Cel card #135 not on your most valuable promo list? Is your list just for standard sized cards? As you know, 13 of these are known to be in circulation. I am sure more were printed, but I think more would have turned up as you suggested during this horrible economy if more had not been destroyed.

Just curious.

Mike.

Well Mike, there actually is a reason. In my opinion the card is not OLD enough to have been thru the TEST. That card is no more than 5 years old and all of the cards I listed I believe came out 10 or more years ago. That is long enough for the tree to have been shaken and any loose fruit to have dislodged if you get my drift. I have the card and I would classify it as very rare BUT I can't throw caution to the wind just yet . I hope I answered your question my friend.

Another which may end up on this list is the Galactica P2 with the P1 back being discussed at the moment. Early days yet as you say but these are not showing up.

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
Well Mike, there actually is a reason. In my opinion the card is not OLD enough to have been thru the TEST. That card is no more than 5 years old and all of the cards I listed I believe came out 10 or more years ago. That is long enough for the tree to have been shaken and any loose fruit to have dislodged if you get my drift. I have the card and I would classify it as very rare BUT I can't throw caution to the wind just yet . I hope I answered your question my friend.

Albert,

They are more than 5 years old. I got the initial ones before my major health issue and that was nearly 6 1/2 years ago. I got mine 2 or 3 years before Michael Beam found the others at a Philly show. But in general, I agree with most of your comments, the #135 is not as old as most of the ones on the list... And only time will tell for sure as you stated.

I think at some point we will have to include The Munsters Special promo with only half text on the back as well. These were printed in 1997 and I do not think many of those have popped up either besides ones from me being the source and I do not have many left.

Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
Another which may end up on this list is the Galactica P2 with the P1 back being discussed at the moment. Early days yet as you say but these are not showing up.

Wolfie,

They are out there, just not in large quantities. Some were inserted in NSU. I bet most people that do not read the forum did not even recognize the error. If I remember the details, around a 1000 of these should exist. How many are sitting in unsold issues, or sent back to NSU is a different story. These might pop up over a longer time frame because of the distribution method.

Mike.

Yes time will tell on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
I think what we are all missing is which card has the smallest production numbers and how many of that specific card do we actually know of. ... It would be a good idea if we could keep track of who owns what so we know the actual numbers.

I agree 100% with Mike if someone were willing to take on the effort. The more objective knowledge the better for making an informed decision before buying.

Throughout this thread I have been reading two different concepts "How many?" and "Which is worth more?". A price guide can usually answer the latter and might include information concerning the former. So a thread like this can be very beneficial for resetting prices in a price guide as collectors become more knowledgeable and a cards true "scarcity" becomes known which in turn will impact price. Note I used the term "scarcity" not "rarity".

Any good Thesaurus would probably suggest that you could interchange the words "rare" and "scarce" however...

Here are some dictionary definitions:

Rare, Rarer, Rarest
1. coming or occurring far apart in time; unusual; uncommon
2. thinly distributed over an area; few and widely separated:

Scarce, Scarcer, Scarcest
1. insufficient to satisfy the need or demand; not abundant:
2. seldom met with; rare

This Thesaurus http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/rare shows the two terms as synonyms but it includes a note which warns of improper interchangeability:
"rare means not widely known or recurring only at long intervals or not widely distributed; scarce means not enough or deficient in quantity or number compared with the demand"

When it comes to "rare", I want to know:
How many were produced?
How many were distributed?
What was the disposition of the difference (the excess)?

I think that posters are doing a great job here in supplying that information but it is not being codified, as Mike suggested.

When it comes to "scarce" I want to know
How rare is it? (supply)
How were they distributed? (supply)
To whom were they distributed? (supply)
Is demand high/low? (demand)
How frequent is one up for sale? (supply)
How often does one sell? (demand)
What are the current selling prices? (current measure of perceived scarcity)
...a ton more questions before I spend my money

I'm not saying all this just to bloviate. Rarity is just one component of a card's scarcity. I can see that most people on this forum agree with what I am saying. I'm just suggesting that we be consistent in terminology.

Quiz: So are the Inkworks Ghost Whisperer P-3 promos a victim of "rarity", "scarcity" or "both"? Might there be a perceived contradiction based upon one's best guess of "rarity"? How would you classify the Galactica P1/P2 promo?

Ironically, most of the posts in this forum were focused on "rarity" as I meantioned but the results of the poll answered the question, 'Which promos are perceived to be scarcest'?: Lion King SB1 & Superman SW1. Both of which are still on my Want list as well.

quote:

Originally posted by miket999:
I am just glad that I was able to purchase my Little Mermaid Pop Up promo from that individual for under $5 I believe before that horrible collector snapped up the rest of them!

Nice pick up Mike!

So someone is out there with nearly 100 of the same promo?!? I wonder, how does that situation fits into the whole rare/scarce discussion?

Albert,
Try to be realistic. You take exception to what? The truth? You know as well as I do that certain people over time have hoarded certain cards and are controlling their release and prices. Do I have to go any further?
PS: The AMP set is always for sale...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: beamer,

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
Albert,
Try to be realistic. You take exception to what? The truth? You know as well as I do that certain people over time have hoarded certain cards and are controlling their release and prices...

Michael,
You and I have been around this industry for a very long time and perhaps I may not be as in tune with its beat as you are. However, without mentioning specific names, unless you insist, tell me about all of the other instances you are aware of where people are or were hoarding specific rare promo cards, and I am only referring to promo cards, in order to manipulate the market for those cards.
I trust you agree that you weren't manipulating the market when you got your hands on the 8 Superman SW1s. Again, 10 may seem like a lot but frankly in the scheme of things it is a drop in the proverbial bucket when you analyze how few have surfaced for sale since then?
Does the fact that someone has found even a few dozen cards of a previoulsy annointed rare promo card and is slowly selling them so as not to give the false impression that he or she is sitting on the mother lode automatically categorize that individual as a manipulator?
I believe the proper inquiry is whether this discovery was a fluke or whether it is the tip of the iceberg. Unless this find is part of a much greater lot knowingly hidden somewhere with malice aforethought, the fact that a few more cards have surfaced doesn't negate the rarity of that card nor does it make the person who found them a manipulator.
Now, if someone is sitting on 500 or 1,000 of a previously dubbed rare card and is slowly releasing them then I would categorize his actions as manipulation. The existence of an additional 500 or 1,000 of that card would undoubtedly have a negative impact on its value and more likely on its ultimate categorization as a rare card. However, I personally don't know of any instances where this methodical and caculated deceit has occurred in the promo card community, other than possibly with the Yoda P3 and the Coke Signs of Good Taste card.


Several years ago I was the victim of pure manipulation when I purchased a set of the 24 oversized Star Trek in Motion promos. Rittenhouse had been giving away 1 card per household thru its website and because of the novelty and popularity of the product, many, many people were availing themselves of the offer. Knowing that according to the manufacturer only 500 sets were possible, and realizing how many individual cards were being distributed thru the internet thereby reducing the odds of completing a set, I deduced that it would be next to impossible to make a complete set. Hence, when a major regional distributor offered a full set for sale thru an ad, I bought it thinking that $800.00 was a very reasonable price.
Disgracefully, what that distributor had failed to mention was that as an incentive from the manufacturer for purchasing a certain amount of the regular product, he was given 50 complete promo sets. This info was only revealed after much inquiry and arguing on my part. Now in my opinion, that was deception pure and simple because he knew that this was a new product and people would do the math. However, Being lucky enough to find and then slowly sell, so as not to dilute the well deserved price of a small stash of an established rare promo is not underhanded or manipulative.

I would love the Speed Racer P3 promo to finish my SR master set.

It was a mail in offer, so how can it be "rare". I know there were problems, I tried to mail it in back then.

So, I would assume in this case, the company has a box in the warehouse full of these promos that were never distributed for one reason or another, but every time I try to email them, I never got a response.

Has anybody had any luck?

David

Extremely interesting reading of this thread.
Is there any chance that any of you in here could post some pictures of these rare Promo Cards? It would make for better understanding to those of us that have never actually seen any of these cards.
Emily

FYI -- There was a gallery of these in PCE -- not the last book but the one before. Shows about 60 cards including Lois & Clark, Speed Racer, Lion King, Superman The Man of Steel, Thomas The Tank Engine, Godzilla, etc.

Thank you H_Toser,
I think I just had that one in my hands last evening too, I will have to borrow it back and take another look. Some nice color pictures of the fronts and backs sure would be a lot of understanding help though
Emily