quote:

Originally posted by allender:
With all the time spent on Arya sailing off to the west, I could hear Merry and Pippin crying.

Hahahaha, I completely anticipated the now formula RotK ending.

It was the only way they were going to tie everything up with the time left.

This ending was different from many epic finales in that you didn't have any couples going off into the sunset. Except perhaps for Sam and cipher-Gilly, the only enduring relationship we seem to have is a once-dead man and his direwolf. Maybe one theme is that Westeros is a bunch of isolated individuals alone in their destinies.

No unicorns until the prequel.

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:
I was mostly fine with the final episode.
Yeah I figured Jon probably told everyone he killed Dany in that honest, honourable habit he has.

This still bugs me . . .

Who could Jon have told that he killed Dany that wound up with him in jail rather than killed?

Gray Worm -- I can't see how Gray Worm and the unsullied/Dothraki armies don't attack/kill Jon.
Tyrion -- jailed.
Arya & Davos -- Unsullied and Dothraki don't care what they think.

It is unfortunate to me that they spent a lot of time on story lines that ultimately didn't go anywhere (i.e. Arya in King's Landing) and skipped over scenes vital to the plot/character in this time jump.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:
I was mostly fine with the final episode.
Yeah I figured Jon probably told everyone he killed Dany in that honest, honourable habit he has.

This still bugs me . . .

Who could Jon have told that he killed Dany that wound up with him in jail rather than killed?

Gray Worm -- I can't see how Gray Worm and the unsullied/Dothraki armies don't attack/kill Jon.
Tyrion -- jailed.
Arya & Davos -- Unsullied and Dothraki don't care what they think.

It is unfortunate to me that they spent a lot of time on story lines that ultimately didn't go anywhere (i.e. Arya in King's Landing) and skipped over scenes vital to the plot/character in this time jump.

And not forgetting the whole who Jon Snow actually is storyline. With Dany dead, there was no longer any good reason to keep his true parentage a secret from anyone. It would also have provided him with the authority to have carried out the execution in the first place. Having him remain plain Jon Snow and returning to Castle Black just made no sense.

Ah well, at least it is over and done with

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
And not forgetting the whole who Jon Snow actually is storyline. With Dany dead, there was no longer any good reason to keep his true parentage a secret from anyone. It would also have provided him with the authority to have carried out the execution in the first place. Having him remain plain Jon Snow and returning to Castle Black just made no sense.

Ah well, at least it is over and done with

Also totally true.

They could have done this in a way that made sense and still ended up with the same result . . .

For example Jon admits he killed Dany and is the true heir, but insists that he not become king and instead is going to go hang out with his wildling buddies and Ghost. At that point it can pick up with Tyrion giving his speech and the group deciding Bran is king. . . That at least makes sense and remains true to the character.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
And not forgetting the whole who Jon Snow actually is storyline. With Dany dead, there was no longer any good reason to keep his true parentage a secret from anyone. It would also have provided him with the authority to have carried out the execution in the first place. Having him remain plain Jon Snow and returning to Castle Black just made no sense.

Ah well, at least it is over and done with

Also totally true.

They could have done this in a way that made sense and still ended up with the same result . . .

For example Jon admits he killed Dany and is the true heir, but insists that he not become king and instead is going to go hang out with his wildling buddies and Ghost. At that point it can pick up with Tyrion giving his speech and the group deciding Bran is king. . . That at least makes sense and remains true to the character.

There is nothing that remains true to these characters. Bran was elected because he has the best story. What does that even mean? In this world, with these people, there is no way Bran is chosen. He is not a warrior and to be fair, he doesn't have any other qualifications as a ruler either. His powers certainly didn't do a lot to help anybody avoid the destruction and loss at King's Landing. He has been very selective about what he knows and doesn't know and what he tells people and doesn't tell them. You could even argue that Bran has actually not been present for the last three years of this series. He has been replaced by the Three Eyed Raven and he got what he wanted by clouding everyone's minds and manipulating them to put him on the throne.

I know that the writers' probably didn't intend it that way and wouldn't confirm or deny the theory, but it's either that or just admit that it was a rushed, idiotic solution which was picked because it was a surprise and they had to wrap it up.

Yes it is over and done and we were kind of all wrong, so if that's the measure of success, we are all in the same boat. But it would have been so easy to have stayed true to the character progression in the whole series and still arrive at a better, more logical, more satisfying ending for at least eight favorites. And we got none of it.

I see Jon winding up in jail as a plot hole.

The overall character arcs are what the writers wanted them to be, for better or for worse. A broken character becoming the hero is a fairly common trope.

I don't have a problem with any of the character arcs. . . Plot holes I find problematic.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I don't have a problem with any of the character arcs. . . Plot holes I find problematic.

Yup! That's the biggest problem with the whole thing. We were given a story told in a very specific way for 7 seasons and 5 episodes and then the idiots at HBO decided it was time to hurry it up.

I really don't understand what it would be that they would be losing to give the story a few more episodes?

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I don't have a problem with any of the character arcs. . . Plot holes I find problematic.

Yup! That's the biggest problem with the whole thing. We were given a story told in a very specific way for 7 seasons and 5 episodes and then the idiots at HBO decided it was time to hurry it up.

I really don't understand what it would be that they would be losing to give the story a few more episodes?

HBO had nothing to do with it. HBO wanted more episodes and even another season. They were willing to foot the money because they were making more money off of it.

It was the GoT show runners, producers and writers D.B. Weiss and David Benioff who refused all offers for more time or episodes. Both these guys are moving on to Star Wars and they were the ones who insisted that the last two seasons would be truncated like this and it would end when it did.

There are now online petitions to Disney from Game of Thrones fans to have them removed as producers and writers of the next Star Wars movie/trilogy. That won't happen either, but if anyone is really upset maybe they shouldn't go see it.

I was just using HBO as a generic catch all term to imply that whoever is running things dropped the ball. Although, I did not realize that Weiss and Benioff were separate entities.

Can't say I have followed too much in the shows creation.

I totally agree that no petition is going to remove them from Star Wars but it is a bit sad if these two are truly satisfied with what they did to the end of such an incredible journey.

Of course running a petition against them because they "might" ruin Star Wars is a ship that has long sailed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

Just heard today that the creators of Game of Thrones, David Benioff and D. D. Weiss, will not be making the next Star Wars trilogy scheduled to begin in 2022. This despite their having been brought into the project way back in 2018, while the final season of GoT had not even been filmed yet.

The reason for them not being able to write, produce, direct and whatever else they do for Star Wars is that they are just too darn busy with their Netflix projects. Yeah, right.

I think it's more like one of the following:

1. After all the fan dissatisfaction with the botched ending of GoT, Disney decided not to risk giving them all the authority over their next 3 Star Wars films.
2. After all the fan dissatisfaction with the botched ending of GoT, Bernioff and Weiss decided to not take on the larger and more vocal Star Wars fans.
3. Netflix gave them a 5 year $250 million dollar deal that looked better to them than Disney's offer for about 8 years of work, a bigger title not withstanding.

I think Star Wars fans should consider themselves lucky, although the way its going, whatever characters survive The Rise of Skywalker will probably be killed off by whoever writes the next trilogy anyway. I'm not watching anything Benioff and Weiss are attached to ever again, but I have found a way to deal with GoT. I will consider The Long Night to be the last episode, since very little good came after that, in my opinion anyhow.

I just got through re-watching The Long Night from the DVD, if you can call it re-watching. I thought that another viewing would help me to see some of the stuff that went by invisibly the first time around. It was worse.

I barely saw anything the first time and, whether it was the copy or the play back screen, it was even blacker than the first time. In retrospect, I don't know how any fans accepted the quality of this episode. There were complaints, but there should have been a revolt. This was the most pivotal episode in the series up to that point and it turned out to be what would have been the last good one, if anybody could see it.

Watching it again, I'm of a mind to think that Benioff and Weiss filmed one guy running around against a black screen with revolving torch lights, put in sound effects and ran away with the fight scene budget money. It's no wonder we wound up with the ending we did, but I always thought it was just bad judgement on their part. Now I'm thinking it was intentional bad judgement, because who could film such awe inspiring scenes and not notice that its impossible to see the effects or the actors faces or even some times tell who you were looking at unless they spoke. I thought they missed so many opportunities to do right by the characters' fates, but I see now that it was really way more than that. The final season tore down the show in every way possible.

And Benioff and Weiss have decided they are too busy for Star Wars after all. Star Wars fans, consider yourselves lucky.

The scences were darkened after filming, no idea why. Some fans have lightened them, you can view them on youtube, they look amazing when you can actually see what is going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Neilsy:
The scences were darkened after filming, no idea why. Some fans have lightened them, you can view them on youtube, they look amazing when you can actually see what is going on.

Yes, there are selected scenes lightened up on youtube and they are great. So why couldn't the producers do that for the whole episode once they saw it completed? And even if it was too late for the show, it could certainly have been corrected on the DVD, where they do lots of things not in the original production. I'm just bummed that I want to enjoy something I can't.

Makes you wonder if the producers ever watch the show back on a normal tv. I always have subtitles on these days and they pick up conversations in the background that you have no chance of hearing on a normal tv. Really adds to the atmosphere. I.e Soldiers giving orders to each other, wagon loaders have conversations.