I think that we have seen the last central scenes for some characters who have separated from the main groups, "riding off into the sequels" or possible-sequels: Arya/Hound, and Tormund/Ghost. The first pair seems set up the most for a sequel adaptation, which might mean that Hound isn't the little-brother valonqar and they will be diverted before they reach King's Landing after meeting up with Jaime on the road. Jon may end up stuck in the North inside Ghost, since Cersei's prophecy says she'll be replaced by a woman, and Jon's been getting more wimpy after he was resurrected as a fire wight. Also note that Ghost has the same scar on the right cheek as Jon does. I also think it's a bit late (and with no real hints) for Bran to be shown to be evil or the Lord of Light, instead of just a guy tortured by viewing the future. (He's just not a fan favorite.) "The Last of the Starks" indeed. In Episode 5 I think that Dany will live up to the nickname "Auntie Maim", overcaffeinated by her takeout from the Winterfell Starbucks. I still don't know why Missandei didn't push Cersei off the wall.

I didn't understand the whole Ghost thing,so anything's possible. They may make a sequel out of Arya and the Hound yet. I heard they prepared 5 and green lighted 3. Besides the one that is supposed to be thousands of years before GoT, I haven't heard what the other 2 are.

But I would be very surprised if Arya and the Hound are disappearing yet. She's still going to kill somebody at King's Landing, I don't think it will be Cersei, but lots of people do. And it will be a huge let down if we don't get that fight between The Hound and The Mountain. It might take both of them to beat The Mountain, but I would be shocked and disappointed if we don't get it. I'm pretty sure we will.

You're probably right, since you used that third eye of yours. Lots of possibilities have been set up. I figured that Jon's "purpose" in being brought back from the dead was to unite the North, but now I'm not sure that's all. Maybe Bran will resurrect Jon's dragon. Or "The Eagles are Coming, The Eagles are Coming".

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

From a practical standpoint and having no military background at all myself, there are some huge holes in this military operation in this episode. The tactical mistakes Dany and Jon made here bothered me more than the shaky battle strategy of episode 3. For one thing it seemed to me that Dany, with her one dragon, should still have been able to easily burn up those ships.

Yeah had some problems with the SUPER arrows. Range of motion is certainly a problem. All the dragon had to do was go directly above. Also I am not fully understanding what is making them so powerful. Reloading them can't be a quick process. Basically just a really cool idea that falls apart quick when you stop to think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Brienne and Jaime. I liked this couple all series and I kind of wish that they had stayed the way they were. Now she will probably get her heart broken like a bunch of others when she was her own woman. I don't think Jaime can survive, he did do all those bad things and redemption in GoT means death.

At least my Jamie or Brienne kills Cersei theory is still alive.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Sansa and Tyrion, I wish they would bring it on. There is no reason I can think of why Cersei didn't kill Tyrion there and then, so that's another practical mistake done to keep him alive.

All Hail King Tyrion!!

Yeah, we have all written different endings in our heads. So we have two episodes to go and I'll say this now. There are many unfound and speculative spoilers making the rounds now claiming inside info. They had better not be true or we will ALL be breathing fire like Dany's dragons.

I'm more and more falling prey to the premonition that Sansa will be sitting on the Iron Throne. She's got to start heading south to give Brienne an excuse to go, anyway.

I am so mad today that I wish I had a dragon. I wouldn't burn down a city, but the writers and producers of GoT would be wise to look up. This is just my own opinion and if you don't want spoilers for this past episode and possibly the next one, stop reading now.

I HATED IT. There was only 1 good thing and 3 almost good things in episode 5.

The one good thing was that Qyburn turned out to be the only character that I thought got the fate he deserved. His own monster killed him, although it was too fast.

The 3 almost good things:

Arya and the Hound shared a nice moment. Then she took his advice and ran away, presumably forgetting that Cersei was on her list. I didn't think she would be the one to kill Cersei because she bagged the Night King, but I had foolishly thought that she might actually help the Hound finally kill his brother. Nope.

The fight between the Hound and the Mountain was all that you wanted, only the Hound can't kill him without killing himself too. I had foolishly thought that the Hound would survive only a little worse for the wear and that Arya might have backed him up. Nope.

The fight between Jaime and Euron was all that you wanted, but I didn't want it. Someone else should have killed Euron. Maybe Jon, who hasn't been doing much of anything. Maybe Grey Worm, who had a better reason to kill Euron than everyone else he slaughtered. Why Jaime? They were on the same side. They would all die together if caught. Fight over Cersei when they get out, not now. But nope.

So now for the parts I hated and it was everything else for every character. In my order of importance:

The Battle for King's Landing - Completely one sided. Guess one dragon really is all you need. Who burns down the house you want to move in to?

Dany - There is one thing that this episode seems to really prove. A woman goes nuts when she loses her hairdresser. I had thought the idea that Dany would become like the Mad King was a red herring. She could always kill people, but so did everyone else and she seemed to be the best choice for the Iron Throne. Now she's off the rails and not coming back. Why did we watch her evolve into a ruler for all this time when it will end up that Jon kills her. Yes, that a prediction, but he has too or she will wipe out him and what's left of the Starks and their allies. So bye-bye Dany.

Cersei - The biggest villain on the show who's death we have been anticipating for over eight years gets killed by the ceiling. None of her enemies even gets the satisfaction of seeing it. And we as the audience get no satisfaction either. She is a scared woman who has lost everything, with child no less, dying with her lifelong lover. And the prophecy we were all making out guesses on? Forget it. I thought Bran would have something to do it with. Nope.

Jaime - Been covered. He should have died in battle against the Night King. They paired him up with Brienne. Why? He died with the love of his life, even though she sent an assassin to kill him. I thought he would die a hero, but nope, he died a fool.

Jon - He's a lump on a log. He's done nothing but back the wrong horse and been incapable of keeping a secret. My prediction is that he will kill Dany next week and then either wander off to the North country or die himself.

Tyrion - Another smart guy who's gotten dumb and now has nowhere to go. Dany will either kill him or try to as soon as she finds out he set Jaime free. The Starks won't take him because he was in the end a loyal Lannister. He was not loyal to his Queen, but he couldn't stop her either. If Tyrion survives, maybe he wanders off with Bronn who is not getting his land. That would probably be his best result, but I would not be surprised if Dany kills him. I hope Sansa does something for him, but at this rate I doubt it.

Varys - The man was right, no one backed him. He deserved better.

Ayra - Don't know where she goes now, back home I guess.

Sansa and Bran - MIA. What was Bran's purpose anyway. If he could see all this mess, you would think he might have told someone. Nope.

Davos - Might go up in smoke too. Or he might leave with Tyrion, should they both survive.

The Iron Throne - I predict it will be burned to a crisp and nobody sits there. Of course there will still be a Kingdom and someone will still want to be King, so really if everybody walks away or dies we have no ending at all.

Drogon - Well there are no dragons, so he goes with Dany. And that's all folks.

I hope none of my predictions for the final episode are true because it will mean I have watched this series for nothing. I think judging by the previous posts that we all could write better endings for these characters. They are fictional, someone should be happy. If everyone dies or is left miserable, why did we watch it. Having taken the story down this path, I don't know how it turns for the better in 80 or so minutes. Just my opinion.

Well Napoleon was killed by his wallpaper so Cersei having death by rubble/ceiling isn't quite so wishy washy.

I 'get' a lot of the issues with this episode also. I had most of them myself, but after a second viewing some parts were clearer.

Dany hasn't JUST gone mad. It's been coming for a while. She's always had advisers to tone down her reaction to things. Now she has no advisers she really trusts and the madness has come through on the back of paranoia and finding out the northern boy she's been sleeping with is her nephew who has a better claim than she does AND the people love him. I don't think she has a clue what to do with her life as it's always been about taking the Iron Throne, which she was always told was hers by right.

On second viewing I realized that the Hound basically freed Arya from her path of vengeance. He snapped her out of it...she realized she didn't need it. Where she goes now, I don't know, we'll find out next episode, hopefully.

Yeah, Jon was boring and thick as two short planks most of the episode. But that might be an inner suspicion that his aunt HAS lost her marbles, not wanting to believe it, and he's now having his suspicion confirmed. I can't see how those two won't be trying to kill each other in the finale. Drogon can't be used though, as they're both Targaryen.

Cersei and Jaime deserved a better ending. That was definitely not what was expected or needed. It makes the whole Brienne thing look like a cheap happy trip designed to set up a bad ending, because that's soooo GoT.

I always assumed the Hound would die; I didn't want him to, but that was his life quest, getting even with his brother. Ending in fire was a sort of justice. It would have been nice for Arya to have popped up and helped...she's good at killing dead things.

Tyrion has definitely got a bit more dumb this season. Could be a number of reasons: from truly wanting to believe Dany's destiny, to being a little in love with her, to not wanting to believe Cersei is quite so bad as she is. I hope Dany doesn't kill him, he definitely deserves better. I think he realizes now that he backed the wrong horse.

I've no certain idea for the finale. I'm sure Sansa and Bran will be involved somewhere, unless the latter wants to take up his post as being a tree.

I think all of S8 can be reviewed better(for better or worse) once we've seen the finale. What has always been clear is that not everyone is going to be happy with whatever they give us. And there will be hundreds of reasons for each argument.

I actually enjoyed the episode, and was surprised to hear so many people were so angry about it.

There were things I wish were different -- i.e. wish The Hound survived, and the fact that Euron just showed up where Jamie was seemed a bit too convenient. Cersei and Jamie's deaths could have been more satisfying.

The biggest issue I have with this season -- and last season for that matter is just how compressed it all is, which is especially frustrating due to some really slow seasons early on.

In early seasons it seemed like traveling from one place in Westeros to another would take days -- multiple episodes even. Now they are going from one end of the continent to another in the span of an episode.

While I like Dany's character, and she an incredible story, but if I think about it -- she is effectively showing up on a new continent with a massive army attempting to take over the continent. She never had more than a couple of allies in Westeros.

Well, "TECHNICALLY" Jamie killed Cersei so as Obi Wan says...."from a certain point of view" I called that one.

I think that Daenerys blowing a gasket made for an interesting and intensely visual episode but it didn't make much sense. No betrayal she went through justifies her Targaryen temper tantrum.

It also created a divide that would need a whole season to properly explore and they are going to do it in one episode.

This was my concern with the 6 episode announcement in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

There were things I wish were different -- i.e. wish The Hound survived, and the fact that Euron just showed up where Jamie was seemed a bit too convenient. Cersei and Jamie's deaths could have been more satisfying.

I was ok with the Hound ending he was a tormented soul, doubt anything would have made him happy.

I did kind of hope that the reality of Cersei being knocked up by Euron (through her own admission) would have enraged Jamie enough to kill her proper. I really thought that was where it was going when Euron told Jamie.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I was ok with the Hound ending he was a tormented soul, doubt anything would have made him happy.

True. His death makes sense to the story. . .

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I did kind of hope that the reality of Cersei being knocked up by Euron (through her own admission) would have enraged Jamie enough to kill her proper. I really thought that was where it was going when Euron told Jamie.

Do you think Jamie believed him? I don't see Euron as being very credible.

What makes you think it was Euron's baby?

She told Jaime it was his first, remember last season. She told the King all three of her children were his. Without DNA testing available, Cersei doesn't have a good track record on the subject of fathers.

The dragon queen's anger all makes sense now!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...vcAj0nLk9HmQB7zroJNg

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
What makes you think it was Euron's baby?

She told Jaime it was his first, remember last season. She told the King all three of her children were his. Without DNA testing available, Cersei doesn't have a good track record on the subject of fathers.

Ha! forgot about that last season. Still would have been a much better death scene if Jamie killed her in a jealous rage.

So the final episode has not yet aired and we have a petition already signed by some 370,000 people to remake Season 8. I predict that after the big finale that number of signers is going to go through the roof.

Of course nobody is remaking anything and we are going to be stuck wherever we wind up, which looks incredibly bad no matter what any fans were theorizing.

The sad part is that it's not that they ran out of ideas or options. The writers were set up a number of different ways that would have stayed true to the story and characters that they had. They just changed course and had characters do things that were contrary to everything they established before. And none of it made those characters better. On the technical side, they made a bunch of mistakes, not just from the point of a misplaced coffee cup, but also a terrific battle in the dark and blaming it on film transfer.

I expect to be holding my head on Monday. We shall see.

I still don't understand why so many people are angry.

I am not seeing things happening that are out of character. . .

Jon is boring. . . he's almost always been boring unless pressed into something.

Dany is violent against her 'enemies' and doing whatever it takes to 'break the wheel' . . . we've seen that a bunch.

Jamie left Brienne . . . he had an affair and went back to the mother of his children, not surprising.

Tyrion is getting outwitted . . . It happens. He's been very smart, but war is different than politics.

Ser Davos, Grey Worm, The Hound, Varys, Sansa and Arya are doing about what we expect them to do.

Who knows what is going on the Sam and Gilly and Bran.

I am not looking forward to the series ending, but I am curious to how it ends.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I still don't understand why so many people are angry.

I am not seeing things happening that are out of character. . .

Jon is boring. . . he's almost always been boring unless pressed into something.

Dany is violent against her 'enemies' and doing whatever it takes to 'break the wheel' . . . we've seen that a bunch.

Jamie left Brienne . . . he had an affair and went back to the mother of his children, not surprising.

Tyrion is getting outwitted . . . It happens. He's been very smart, but war is different than politics.

Ser Davos, Grey Worm, The Hound, Varys, Sansa and Aria are doing about what we expect them to do.

Who knows what is going on the Sam and Gilly and Bran.

I am not looking forward to the series ending, but I am curious to how it ends.

I wish I saw more measured views like these.

At the end of it all, if there's bad writing for the end then it lies at the door of GRRM. When he signed up with HBO he had said he'd hoped the book series would have been finished(2 books) before the final season of the show. We've been 8 years since the last book.
The ending is the ending GRRM had in mind. Because the old windbag couldn't get his backside in gear and finish the things, meant that any character growth/development is non-existent, the writers only knew how it ended and had to get there in some way...guided by GRRM. It wouldn't matter if we had 10 episodes for both 7 & 8, he still wouldn't have finished the books.

We've had lots of seasons showing characters travelling around Westeros and Essos, we know how long it takes, so I don't mind the fast pace and getting to the action. There's only so many stops with Hotpie for ale and cake a person can see!

None of us is going to be happy no matter how it ends because we all have our favourite characters and our own ideas. I still wish they could have included the resurrected Catelyn Stark from the books, returning as the creepy Lady Stoneheart, but that didn't happen, and the sun still rose the next day. I'm interested in the ending, whatever it is, I'm just not going to stamp my feet, and chuck my toys out of my pram if I don't get the ending I want.

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:
At the end of it all, if there's bad writing for the end then it lies at the door of GRRM.

I have to disagree with you here my friend. Yes, GRRM let success go to his head, didn't want to work anymore and claimed stress, blocked, writer's cramp or whatever else he could think of. The fact is we may never get his final books, so the producers and writers of GoT had no obligation to stick to anything he was planning once they left the end of his last published book. They probably had no obligation ever, as you yourself has said they changed the story from the books written.

I put this squarely on the producers and writers of the series, if it all goes south. I'm not going to do another recap, I broke down my problems with the last episode already. I think the way Cersei and Jaime's exits transpired caused the most popular uproar. As what happens with Dany and Jon will probably be the next most focused upon issue.

Don't worry, I'm not throwing away my cards. But I will tell you what will happen if they ruin the ending for as many people as are upset now. They can take the sequels and prequels and go begging. You can forget a bad beginning, but everybody remembers the end.

Watch the finale, love it, hate it, either way it will provoke a response in all of us.

All I can say is don't get into the Wheel of Time series that Amazon are going to start filming later this year. At least that 15-book series was completed beyond the author's death with all his notes on where he wanted things to end. That too has a lame ending, though, proving that authors/writers very often have no idea how to end something, no matter how good the journey is.
None of us are in a position to change that no matter how loud we bleat.