quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Dave, a dealer told me that he intended to charge approximately $ 4,000 for the Archive Box

I can't believe that would include the Connery cut. I would call it a real bargain if it did.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Dave, a dealer told me that he intended to charge approximately $ 4,000 for the Archive Box

I can't believe that would include the Connery cut. I would call it a real bargain if it did.

That's not fair on a regular archive box buyer, price is higher and probably have to fight to get one.

Another missing card, Skyfall/Spectre double sided titles card.

quote:

Originally posted by WOMBLE: Whether you regard it as 'part of the set' seems like a similar situation as exclusive 'dealer promos'.

Where do you class the Letter D card from the 40th Anniversary set as only 40 were made? When they were redeemed were they returned to the redeemer. I have only seen one on sale and that was for £600+ some years ago.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by cheifbrody:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tommy C:
Dave, a dealer told me that he intended to charge approximately $ 4,000 for the Archive Box

I can't believe that would include the Connery cut. I would call it a real bargain if it did.

Yes, he was offering the Archive Box with the Connery card for $ 4,000. And already it has been scooped up by a customer, so it is gone before it has been released.

In my experience, on prior RA sets, I have seen dealers sell Archive Boxes in the $2,000 range

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

quote:

Originally posted by WOMBLE: Whether you regard it as 'part of the set' seems like a similar situation as exclusive 'dealer promos'.

Where do you class the Letter D card from the 40th Anniversary set as only 40 were made? When they were redeemed were they returned to the redeemer. I have only seen one on sale and that was for £600+ some years ago.

regards John

I think you have to classify that one as part of the set 'proper'; it is the last letter card in the set, it was put into the packs (so not a dealer exclusive) and is listed on the official RA checklist.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

Where do you class the Letter D card from the 40th Anniversary set as only 40 were made?

John

I made my own, i photocopied both sides of a real one and then laminated it. It was the closest i was ever going to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:

quote:

Originally posted by cheifbrody:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tommy C:
Dave, a dealer told me that he intended to charge approximately $ 4,000 for the Archive Box

I can't believe that would include the Connery cut. I would call it a real bargain if it did.

Yes, he was offering the Archive Box with the Connery card for $ 4,000. And already it has been scooped up by a customer, so it is gone before it has been released.

In my experience, on prior RA sets, I have seen dealers sell Archive Boxes in the $2,000 range

No, no, no. If that's correct, that dealer will regret it big time.

You have 4 Moores, a Craig, a Lazenby, a Berry, a Dench, a Yeoh, a Seymour, a Seydoux, and a few others in the $50 range. I don't know if the other incentives, Lee and Adams, are in it or not. That's only considering the signatures, not even mentioning the other cards. Archive boxes used to mean everything, but never having had one myself, I don't know if they have exclusions now.

Doesn't matter. The autograph list alone has enough higher and mid-range cards to support it.

Then you are going to include a cut that will go for thousands on its own, all for $4000.

Darn right it was snapped up. Let's see if the dealer delivers when he/she realizes what they did.

I believe that usually the Archive boxes do not include the "other" case incentives, namely the lesser ones that you have to buy 3, 6, 9 or whatever number of cases to get

quote:

Originally posted by cheifbrody:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Dave, a dealer told me that he intended to charge approximately $ 4,000 for the Archive Box

I can't believe that would include the Connery cut. I would call it a real bargain if it did.

That's not fair on a regular archive box buyer, price is higher and probably have to fight to get one.

The Archive boxes are not sold directly by RA, they are usually auctioned by distributors, so there is no set price.

@ Tommy:

It varies from series to series: Sometimes are both incentives (6-/9-case) in the Archive box, sometimes only the one or other.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by X:
Just because 99% of Bond card collectors won't be able to the Connery cut to their collections does not change that fact that card is very much a part of this set. What other set does it belong to?

As usual there are some cards I am very much looking forward to trying to get, but overall nothing is jumping out at me (except for Dench and Lee). Connery is this set's show-stopper but if it's so unobtainable, it's almost a moot point.

It is a moot point, so why conclude that the set is incomplete without that card, when in the next breathe its acknowledged that next to no one will have it? Why not just say that the cut exists on its own?

Why? Because a person's ability to obtain something does not eradicate it's existence or status as a part of a particular set/release. I say that as one of the majority who will not be able to add this card to their collection.
And at the risk of stating the obvious: it doesn't "exist on it's own" because the card is not being released on it's own.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
All modern trading cards are being made with artificial collectability built in. Rarity is created by the card manufacturers, that is a given, but some premium hits are more created than others.

Stickers autographs for instance result in cards that are more created than their on-card autograph counterparts. I say that because stickers can be used in any product, at any time, in any single or multiple combination. The on-card autograph at least has to be held as a card until it is released in something. There is more of a connection to the signer, who at the very least had to touch the card at some point.

Now with the cut signature, there really is zero connection with the signer. Indeed the best use of cut signatures is probably to acquire verifiable autographs of deceased persons. The signers, living or dead, never touch the card or any sticker for the card. They signed something totally different, who knows when, that requires some third-party authentication before it can be turned into a card that might just as well be released on its own worth.

This Connery card is bittersweet. It will be a cool card but also represents RA admitting defeat. That said, you can hardly fault them when they have no doubt been trying to get live signatures out the the curmudgeon for years.

I agree about the artificial 'feel' that cut and sticker sticker signatures can have. Connery has no "connection" to RA's stellar Bond auto project so as nice as the card will be, even if I could have it, it won't fit in with the other cards in the series and that would always sour me a bit towards it.
As a collector I dreamt we'd one day have all 6 Bond's on full-bleed cards, now the most we can hope for is 5 if they ever snag Dalton.
As a Bond fan I really enjoy Connery's films, but his unwillingness to sign cards is just one small thing that sadly reinforces all the negatives you hear about him (assuming he was indeed personally aware and declined the autograph requests).

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Isn't that what Razor did with cuts a few years ago? Just make a product that had cut signature cards of people with no relationship to each other? Certainly no one talks of completing something like that.

I'm not against cut signature cards as an idea, especially for deceased parties. I believe they have there place when used properly and its fun to have something unique in your collection. However my own opinion is that they are not part of any set. They may be released in association with a particular set, but unless they are produced in sufficient numbers and distributed in such a way that more than 1%ers can get their hands on them, why call them necessary cards for master sets?

I think no one talks of completing sets like those because they are so collector unfriendly. You'd still need every card released to have the entire set though. Just because the manufacturer has made it near enough impossible doesn't change the composition of the set, it just means the set (and more to the point, the manufacturer) suck.

As usual you make excellent points X and we really are in agreement on 95% of it, just not about the cut. I believe card collectors still make the calls in this hobby and if collectors voiced their objections and backed it up by not buying product that didn't suit them, card manufacturers would be more inclined to listen. Unfortunately collectors really want certain cards and it sometimes gets the better of their common sense, me included.

So if I prefer to think of the Connery cut as standing on its own, while fully acknowledging that it is released with the Final Edition product, I believe that's my perogitive.

It's all academic anyway, but I do see a difference between this cut and the recent RA Star Trek cuts. Those ST cuts were truly inserted in the product, the Connery cut is an incentive of the highest level. Buying 18 cases to get it and the Archive box is beyond even most dealers.

Now you could say the same thing for all autograph incentives, probably just requires fewer cases. Here again, I do draw a distinction however. Those other Bond incentives were produced to be signed on card and therefore have a stronger grasp on really being part of the set, even though few collectors will be able to get them. As I said in my earlier post, I regard the Connery cut as much more created out of thin air, with the signer never knowing that what he autographed was ever going to be sold in this manner. I'm pretty sure that Connery himself, if he had anything to say about it, wouldn't approve.

It's still all how you want to look at it.

I'm curious about your opinion on something you didn't mention. Whether you consider it part of the set or not, how much do you think the Connery cut will trade for? We don't know the number, so any range would be estimated, but I would not be surprised if a key number went for well over $10,000. Not saying it should, but if cut cards from minor Star Trek guest actors could sell for thousands, how could this one with its greater significance not be valued higher? Any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:


I'm curious about your opinion on something you didn't mention. Whether you consider it part of the set or not, how much do you think the Connery cut will trade for? We don't know the number, so any range would be estimated, but I would not be surprised if a key number went for well over $10,000. Not saying it should, but if cut cards from minor Star Trek guest actors could sell for thousands, how could this one with its greater significance not be valued higher? Any thoughts?

I am considering buying an archive box and was offered it as well for 4000 so estimating the other autos at 2000 which might be high as there is an ebay listing right now offering all autos except the 2 incentives for 1200 i would put the cut by itself for 2000-2500,in fact raven give you first chance at 2500 and you can flip it for huge dollers

Have Rittenhouse actually prepared a card for Connery to sign as I wonder what image they would have chosen.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
Have Rittenhouse actually prepared a card for Connery to sign as I wonder what image they would have chosen.

regards

John

I've been thinking the same thing about a full bleed cigar girl for years.

quote:

Originally posted by 007bondcards:
I am considering buying an archive box and was offered it as well for 4000 so estimating the other autos at 2000 which might be high as there is an ebay listing right now offering all autos except the 2 incentives for 1200 i would put the cut by itself for 2000-2500,in fact raven give you first chance at 2500 and you can flip it for huge dollers

Thanks for your offer, but I shall have to pass. It's not that I lack conviction in my estimation of the cut's value, but that I lack $2,500 and a ready buyer.

Seriously, you need access to someone who can spend money at this level for something that is on-the-face of it illogical. The war cry of any collectibles' market is that anything is worth only what someone will pay. That cuts both ways. Some great things are overlooked and some foolish things get traded at insane prices. However, purely from a business standpoint, you get the most you can now and its not your problem later.

So good luck selling the Connery cut, if you decide to get it. I do believe $4,000 for the cut and Archive box is a bargain, but I have no desire to try my hand as a flipper and I am not enough of a Bond fan to think it worth the price for myself.

I do hope that dealers/sellers will report sale prices when it is released. We really have no production information about it at all right now and it will be fun to see if it breaks the Trek cut highs. Logical I think it should, but we are not in a logical hobby to begin with, so who knows? Time will tell.

One dealer offering the Connery card also lists these:

1 Archive Box exclusive Yvonne Shima Women of Bond card

1 Archive Box printing plate set of 4 cards used to make a Die Another Day base card


What are these ? i don't see them on the checklist

I see someone listing the Whislaw auto as A283

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Two things about the checklist.

Ben Whislaw can not be autograph A284 as listed. That number belongs to Daniela Bianchi in Bond Archive 2016. He could be A294, as I still have that number as being opened.

The other thing is that I don't see the Connery cut signature card mentioned on the checklist or on the buy page right now. It was never on the first product page as far as I saw. So is it coming out or not?

So now it seems that even if you don't pursue the Connery cut auto, and don't consider it part of the set, you're still in trouble

Because the Shima Women of Bond auto and the Die Another Day plates are ALSO exclusive to the 1 per 18 case Archive Box !

I hope that this is not true, but apparently it is