quote:

Originally posted by richscards:

quote:

Originally posted by Nonsports:
My name is Keith Dennis ... I recently took a position with them to take the lead on the Cryptozoic distribution restructure to make sure that everything continues to run smoothly

Congrats Keith! I have dealt with Keith for more than 15 years. Total stand up dealer, and I'm sure he will do a great job with this transition! Looking forward to working with you Keith!

I tried contacting Keith today, but after being on the phone with the Disney collector card people for so long, I missed him. But I spoke with the head honcho at his location for a very long time.

We talked about my past issues with GTS and CZE. Discussed allocations. Talked about many manufacturers and products.

It was very good. It will help me decide which way to go in every aspect of my card purchases.

One thing not brought is other business our current distributor will lose by customers moving their entire accounts to GTS, one stop shopping. I for one will always be loyal to my guy who has gone the extra mile to find me boxes when I forgot to place orders.

Another insight,

"A company needs dist./dealers and collectors to survive as a company. The way Cryptozoic is now running there company.

It will be interesting to see if they survive with dist./dealers and collectors now saying they won’t handle their products.

There numbers for each product will decrease because of dist./dealers who no longer order there products.

Think about this how many dist./dealers were forced into taking:

Comic defense league
Tarzan
Fringe
Guild
Alphas
Superman
Batman
Dc
Vampire Diaries (quality issues)

Also selling binders to public at $30 delivered while they charge you $21 how can you compete as it costs $11 to ship a binder

Also cutting people on Walking Dead so they can sell retail on their site.

Just so they could be on board for the 2 hot titles. Believe me a lot of people are sitting on dead stock just so they could get those 2 titles. I know of 3 dist. and 2 dealers who have said they won’t carry their products anymore and add just those 5 people up what they ordered and you can see.

That the number of cases ordered will be less. A card company needs everyone and this company has now shown you they don’t care. It’s very simple

To Show them as I will not be SPENDING ONE DOLLAR ON THEIR PRODUCTS.

Remember without their hot 2 titles I don’t think they could have done this as those titles will also fade away and will you miss anything? I doubt the world will change with or without them.

My hard earned dollars are going to companies that care about me."

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:

quote:

Originally posted by snoopy351:
Very disappointing; I was direct with Crypto and used a distributor that no longer will get product. I supplied a lot of collectors with WD, Fringe, and Vampire Diaries cards. Now I will be lucky to get product and if I do, prices will be up.

Yep...you and other big case openers may not be opening as much which will make it that much harder for collectors to complete sets as well. It really is a shame.

Harder? You must be talking, "willing to spend a few dollars more" because this restructuring doesn't mention anything about making less of a product.

I honestly don't mind spending what it takes on sets I like. The problem here is that there will be less out there period because the big case breakers just won't be breaking as much. I also likely won't be breaking CZE stuff anymore. I got my stuff from cujobyte, and I believe this will hurt him getting good prices on the product. As I stated earlier I had already planned on cutting my case purchasing back substantially for the rest of the year, but this pretty much eliminates me from buying cases. Here is what I have busted from CZE

1 case The Walking Dead Season 1
1 case The Guild Seasons 1, 2 and 3
2 cases The Vampire Diaries Season 1
3 cases Smallville Seasons 7-10
3 cases Fringe Seasons 1 and 2
3 cases The Vampire Diaries Season 2
1 case of Castle Seasons 1 and 2
3 cases of Fringe Seasons 3 and 4

Obviously it's their company and they can do what they want, but this is a bad idea all around. This is pretty much what Upper Deck does, and we know the disaster of a company that it has become.

There's a lot of speculation going on but I think we need to see how this plays out it may work out just fine or it could have shortcomings but let's at least give it a chance I know people don't like change but it's going to happen and everyone may need to adapt but it's way too early to start saying it won't work.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Well it didn't take very long for the company who was making cards for the card collector to "restructure" without worrying too much about those collectors . And you know what, I don't care. I really don't.

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

Now here's why I don't care. RA and Breygent are putting out enough new, good titles, with better consistant value in their boxes/packs than anything Crypto ever made. I was worried that I couldn't spread my budget far enough to cover all the products I wanted to get this year. Now the problem is solved and I just crossed off anything Crypto from my list because I know where I get my cards won't be able to bring them in.

I'll just be happy with RA and Breygent and maybe a couple of Topps titles. It really works out great for me.

Very well said and I'm totally with you on this. NSU's interview with CZE's Scott Gaeta also confirms what you and I and many other were already thinking about this "restructering" move:

quote:

For the hottest product we will have more control in making sure it goes to the dealers that are supporting the entire line. We think this is a very good thing for collectors. This program is still evolving but to start we chose online storefronts that have a history of supporting our entire line.

Taking into consideration that the vast majority of CZE's titles was rather a miss and didn't sell too well and the only two hyped hits were TWD and BBT, CZE is now forcing those mentioned "authorized" distributors to buy all their products in order to get any hot titles.

Why on earth should I buy a product that I can't sell?! With respect to business/economic management that doesn't make any sense and if a company tries to force me to into loosing turnover in the long run just to be able to offer certain hot titles to customers, I simply quit buying ANY product from this company. The profit of one or two hot titles doesn't compensate the loss in turover you have with the many titles that just don't sell and take up your storage space.

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

[QUOTE]Why on earth should I buy a product that I can't sell?! With respect to business/economic management that doesn't make any sense and if a company tries to force me to into loosing turnover in the long run just to be able to offer certain hot titles to customers, I simply quit buying ANY product from this company. The profit of one or two hot titles doesn't compensate the loss in turover you have with the many titles that just don't sell and take up your storage space.

You definitely shouldn't order titles that you can't sell. But we believe that the dealers that carry more than just the hottest titles deserve our support. They are the ones who help us build this category and bring in new collectors.

We would never and have never forced dealers or distributors to order one title to get another.

Best,

Scott

Here's a list of info that I hope helps clears up some misconceptions from comments I've seen posted:

1. Prices: The Dealers who purchased direct from us always paid more than Distributors paid. Distributors have always had a mark-up to cover the services they provide and make a living when selling to dealers. That won't change. More "hot" boxes will get into the hands of more dealers at a reasonable price than in the past. In our mind these distributors are extensions of CZE.

2. We have never nor will we ever bundle titles to force dealers to take titles they don't want, to get hot stuff. I hate this with a passion.

3. We don't let dealers cherry pick us and take away boxes of the hottest titles from dealers who are regular customers.

4. We did have distributors that would do things like sell boxes on the secondary market instead of wholesaling them to dealer and stores, bundle titles, etc. That is not acceptable to us and we don't want to deal with that any more. It's contrary to our mission to grow the category and get cards to as many of our fans as possible.

5. Nobody at CZE lost their job over this change.

6. Gaming product has nothing to do with how much of an allocated non sport product anyone gets. Never has never will.

7. Allocations will still happen for titles that have more demand than supply. Even if we could, we think it would be really bad for collectors (and dealers) for us to make 15,000 hobby boxes of a single release. (yes, if we made boxes for all of our orders for a recent allocated title that's how many we would have to make to not allocate) We make as many as we can, within reason, while still maintaining the collectible nature of trading cards and working within the limitations of autos, wardrobe, and quality sketches.

I hope that helps.


Best,

Scott

With all due respect, points 2 and 3 seem to contradict one another a bit.

As the only people who generally buy from Diamond are comic shops, isn't having a single distributor in the known "card" industry

quote:

contrary to our mission to grow the category and get cards to as many of our fans as possible

?

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
With all due respect, points 2 and 3 seem to contradict one another a bit.

As the only people who generally buy from Diamond are comic shops, isn't having a single distributor in the known "card" industry

quote:

contrary to our mission to grow the category and get cards to as many of our fans as possible

?

I don't think so. He's saying they never forced people to talk ALL tittles, but they weren't letting cherry pickers get the best stuff either. It wouldn't be fair to their loyal customers.

Just me speculating on this subject...I'm sure cherry pickers could get product, but probably were allocated a little heavier.

If comic shops weren't ordering before now, why would they? CZE products have been offered through Previews. The only thing that might get them to order, is that, by the sounds of things, dealers and distributors will not be carrying the products, so they may think they can pick up some revenue. From what I've seen, not many comic shops carry cards like they did in the 90's. The shop closes to me carries very little. And I doubt they have carried any CZE, and I doubt they will. The owner always gripes to me about cards not selling, knowing I'm a card fan. People can't afford SRP anymore.

Now that I think about it again, I have a problem with point #1. It seems like the people I've seen selling boxes of CZE at low pre-order prices where direct with CZE. Not much above GTS prices. And I still have some of the SDCC TWD Comic 1 binders that I'm not bothering putting on ebay, because the lower priced ones are right at or a little below what I paid from GTS. I'm not willing to take a loss. I really doubt anyone else would too. So they are either clearing space, or got them much less than I did. Makes one wonder.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tattoox,

quote:

Originally posted by John Tirohn:
Another insight,

"A company needs dist./dealers and collectors to survive as a company. The way Cryptozoic is now running there company.

It will be interesting to see if they survive with dist./dealers and collectors now saying they won’t handle their products.

There numbers for each product will decrease because of dist./dealers who no longer order there products.

Think about this how many dist./dealers were forced into taking:

Comic defense league
Tarzan
Fringe
Guild
Alphas
Superman
Batman
Dc
Vampire Diaries (quality issues)

Also selling binders to public at $30 delivered while they charge you $21 how can you compete as it costs $11 to ship a binder

Also cutting people on Walking Dead so they can sell retail on their site.

Just so they could be on board for the 2 hot titles. Believe me a lot of people are sitting on dead stock just so they could get those 2 titles. I know of 3 dist. and 2 dealers who have said they won’t carry their products anymore and add just those 5 people up what they ordered and you can see.

That the number of cases ordered will be less. A card company needs everyone and this company has now shown you they don’t care. It’s very simple

To Show them as I will not be SPENDING ONE DOLLAR ON THEIR PRODUCTS.

Remember without their hot 2 titles I don’t think they could have done this as those titles will also fade away and will you miss anything? I doubt the world will change with or without them.

My hard earned dollars are going to companies that care about me."

I agree with most of what you said. Between GTS and CZE, I've taken some of my business elsewhere. And I did not buy for myself, or discussed with people I know that are DC fans of CZE product.

GTS has started to redeem themselves to me, since I've got a new rep that knows his stuff. But I need earlier notification of allocations. If I order lets say one case, thinking I'll get allocated to one half, and then I get one case, that's money I have to scramble to come up with. I only deal on an extremely small level due to several factors (family/health/low customers/no longer a convention dealer/economy/etc.). Most of my personal collection is now mini-master sets. Boxes are too expensive to make my own, because I am a collector and can't part with the big money cards (sketches and such) that other dealers make their money on.

GTS/CZE screw up with me on TWD S1 cost me customers and potential customers. UD's policy, low odds, and high prices have cost me some Marvel collectors that just totally gave up on Marvel products.

I've noticed that comic shops don't bother carrying superhero cards anymore. I can understand that CZE chose them for one of the distributors, but why only one true card distributor? One that caters greatly to gaming and sport shops.

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Well it didn't take very long for the company who was making cards for the card collector to "restructure" without worrying too much about those collectors . And you know what, I don't care. I really don't.

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

Now here's why I don't care. RA and Breygent are putting out enough new, good titles, with better consistant value in their boxes/packs than anything Crypto ever made. I was worried that I couldn't spread my budget far enough to cover all the products I wanted to get this year. Now the problem is solved and I just crossed off anything Crypto from my list because I know where I get my cards won't be able to bring them in.

I'll just be happy with RA and Breygent and maybe a couple of Topps titles. It really works out great for me.

Very well said and I'm totally with you on this. NSU's interview with CZE's Scott Gaeta also confirms what you and I and many other were already thinking about this "restructering" move:

quote:

For the hottest product we will have more control in making sure it goes to the dealers that are supporting the entire line. We think this is a very good thing for collectors. This program is still evolving but to start we chose online storefronts that have a history of supporting our entire line.

Taking into consideration that the vast majority of CZE's titles was rather a miss and didn't sell too well and the only two hyped hits were TWD and BBT, CZE is now forcing those mentioned "authorized" distributors to buy all their products in order to get any hot titles.

Why on earth should I buy a product that I can't sell?! With respect to business/economic management that doesn't make any sense and if a company tries to force me to into loosing turnover in the long run just to be able to offer certain hot titles to customers, I simply quit buying ANY product from this company. The profit of one or two hot titles doesn't compensate the loss in turover you have with the many titles that just don't sell and take up your storage space.

That's a very telling quote from Crypto that you found estephano and I think that it's really the core driver of this restructuring, although everyone involved hates to use the word "force". So let's just say its the new business model then, support the whole line and you get to sell the hot products. Take some dogs to get the diamonds.

Believe it or not I spoke to dealers in the early 90's that were going through the same thing with UD when it owned the sportscard market. There was no authorized dealer network at the time, but to buy direct from UD you had to take a certain amount of product you didn't want to get the product you did. That's exactly what supporting the whole line really means.

As for prices, you can crunch the numbers all you like, you have fewer distributors in a fixed network. Quite a few members who sell or have dabbled in Crypto products from the start have already posted that they will no longer be able to get product. If more middle men are brought in each stage needs to make a profit. And authorized sellers will have to make enough on those hot titles to make up for the bargain bin titles. You can argue about how much more this will cost the collector in the end, more or a lot more, but I don't see how you can think the cost won't go up.

I bought from GTS back in the 90's. And I've been back with them when Rittenhouse got the Marvel line.

I'll be the first to let you know if they CZE prices go up.

I have no proof that any other distributor or any one going direct with CZE got their CZE products for less. I do know that in most cases, dealers are paying more through Diamond/Previews.

I bought direct through Inkworks, because it was cheaper by the case than going through GTS.

Those are the facts that I have from my experiences with Diamond, GTS, and Inkworks.

I never bothered going direct with CZE, because as I stated before, I think they're only one notch above UD.

I base this feeling over my views and beliefs about their limited promos in IMO weird locations, allocations, and Miranda ceasing to communicate with me. I've heard she's got a promotion and I'm not the only one she dropped like a hot potato.

CZE packs are already $3.99 each at the only card/comic store around here. I really can't afford the hobby anymore if the price goes up much more. I am now paying almost $1 each for base cards, and things like Topps that have 100 different parallel sets make it even worse.

These are the things that make we glad I don't normally buy boxes/cases. I'll let others spend the $ and deal with the stress of all these changes and then I'll just buy the complete sets that I want.

I have 2 cases of Downton Abbey pre-ordered so I e-mailed the dealer I bought them from and they said I'll still get them no problem. They'll just have to use a different distributor. A big relief for me.