quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by Juelle Lou:
What does this mean for dealers like Miss Lizzy and Ed from Scifi cards? They are the only dealers I have dealt with preorders before, does this mean they won't be allowed to stock or sell Cryptozoic products anymore?

They order direct from CZE?0

No, I order from a distributor. I will no longer be able to order Crypto product through them.

quote:

Originally posted by jadams:
Streamlining distribution saves money.

How? I'm sure that the dealers/distributors who ordered product from Cryptozoic in the past paid their share of shipping and handling costs to get the product sent to them. And if the quantities were small, they probably paid more per box/case, too.

The only benefit I see for CZE with limiting distribution is that they can guarantee that the new dealer network will have to place large, minimum orders of product, thereby ensuring CZE a certain profit. Which is great in the short term but bad in the long run if they end up p*$$ing off their collector base.

quote:

Originally posted by dcole:

quote:

Originally posted by jadams:
Streamlining distribution saves money.

How?

Restructuring is 'business speak' for reducing costs by firing people. By letting their distributors handle all of the orders, big and small, rather than doing some direct sales they can probably eliminate a few members of staff from the payroll which reduces their overheads and keeps the shareholders happy...in the short term. This sort of thing is never done to benefit customers or end users, especially since it usually has the opposite effect, but is frequently given as the explanation. Such is the reality of modern business practices

Well it didn't take very long for the company who was making cards for the card collector to "restructure" without worrying too much about those collectors . And you know what, I don't care. I really don't.

I'm not going to knock Crypto's titles or product. They have opened up on some great non-sport titles and the sets have been well done. I have bought more than a few boxes and I have even bought when prices got marked up. However I did not like their formula for autograph cards, in particular the way ALL the main cast signers were 1 or 2 per case in BBT and VD, and how their products were so heavily allocated that I could not get as much as I wanted before mark up.

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

Now here's why I don't care. RA and Breygent are putting out enough new, good titles, with better consistant value in their boxes/packs than anything Crypto ever made. I was worried that I couldn't spread my budget far enough to cover all the products I wanted to get this year. Now the problem is solved and I just crossed off anything Crypto from my list because I know where I get my cards won't be able to bring them in.

I'll just be happy with RA and Breygent and maybe a couple of Topps titles. It really works out great for me.

Hmmmm,
So there's a middle man. Most shops buy from the middle man, because they don't have enough customers to order full cases.

CZE, limiting their customers will allow them to cut back on employees, but most of all, all the headaches of dealing with all the shipping and whining.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

This CZE following UD doesn't surprise me at all. In the past 12-18 months I've come to the conclusion that they are only one notch above UD. I was hoping they might improved, but have gone to reinforce my opinion of them.

I don't understand the paragraph above. "Force"? These distributors already order from CZE. They get allocated. They order all the titles, hot or not. They don't sell at MSRP. Honestly, these statements I'm reading today don't make sense. If you have never ordered from these distributors or you're not a dealer, quit making yourself look foolish making statements that you do not know anything about.

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:
Hmmmm,
So there's a middle man. Most shops buy from the middle man, because they don't have enough customers to order full cases.

There is always a middleman with small shops, they use a distributor. Usually its the same one for all their products. Now that distributor will not be authorized by Crypto, so either it doesn't carry the line at all or it has to buy at close to retail from the authorized distributor. Now there are TWO middlemen in the mix and the end price is higher for the shop, which makes it even higher for the customers of the shop.

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

This CZE following UD doesn't surprise me at all. In the past 12-18 months I've come to the conclusion that they are only one notch above UD. I was hoping they might improved, but have gone to reinforce my opinion of them.

I don't understand the paragraph above. "Force"? These distributors already order from CZE. They get allocated. They order all the titles, hot or not. They don't sell at MSRP. Honestly, these statements I'm reading today don't make sense. If you have never ordered from these distributors or you're not a dealer, quit making yourself look foolish making statements that you do not know anything about.

Why so hostile? You state you don't like the policy, yet you jump at me for foolish statements. If you don't like what I said because you have first hand experience by all means correct me in a civil manner. I think this is a bad thing for collectors because they will be paying more. If you disagree that's fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:
Hmmmm,
So there's a middle man. Most shops buy from the middle man, because they don't have enough customers to order full cases.

There is always a middleman with small shops, they use a distributor. Usually its the same one for all their products. Now that distributor will not be authorized by Crypto, so either it doesn't carry the line at all or it has to buy at close to retail from the authorized distributor. Now there are TWO middlemen in the mix and the end price is higher for the shop, which makes it even higher for the customers of the shop.

Why do you guys keep saying close to retail?

I've bought direct from manufacturers and from Diamond and from GTS. Yeah, the dealer is going to pay more, but NOT close to retail.

Those distributors that are out, may be able to work something out with CZE. The dealers missing out could order from chosen distributors.

If dealers switch distributors, is shouldn't affect the customers price, unless said dealer is using it as an excuse to raise their prices.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Now they come with this distribution system, which is straight out of UD's playbook. Some one said the idea was too force those chosen distributors to buy all their products in order to get the hot titles, I believe that is the idea also. In the meantime dealers who made their early products popular are shut out and collectors have to pay higher prices because they have to buy from price fixed authorized distributors that need to mark up to make up for all the stuff they don't want, but have to buy from Crypto.

This CZE following UD doesn't surprise me at all. In the past 12-18 months I've come to the conclusion that they are only one notch above UD. I was hoping they might improved, but have gone to reinforce my opinion of them.

I don't understand the paragraph above. "Force"? These distributors already order from CZE. They get allocated. They order all the titles, hot or not. They don't sell at MSRP. Honestly, these statements I'm reading today don't make sense. If you have never ordered from these distributors or you're not a dealer, quit making yourself look foolish making statements that you do not know anything about.

Why so hostile? You state you don't like the policy, yet you jump at me for foolish statements. If you don't like what I said because you have first hand experience by all means correct me in a civil manner. I think this is a bad thing for collectors because they will be paying more. If you disagree that's fine.

Why so hostile? I'm getting fed up with the hobby as a dealer and as a collector. I'm tired of reading statements here that hold little to no truth. They just confuse most people. And I doubt prices will go up directly from CZE. It will be from those that have to go, or choose to go through an extra middle man or those trying to make an extra buck using CZE new policy as an excuse.

I didn't single you out, just quoted you. And I'll just leave it at that.

Okay, let's not quote prices on any product, but answer this someone.

What's the dollar difference between MSRP and the price you paid per box on recent or upcoming purchases?

On one particular item, I see about $30 difference between manufacturer price and MSRP. And that both GTS and Diamond marked it up $6.

I know that's vague, yet IMO, giving too much inside info to the average collector.

So I've probably ended up pissing off manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and collectors. But yeah, the truth is better than all this confusion of misinformation going around IMO.

I have been paying about $635 per case through an Illinois distributor who will no longer be able to supply me with product.

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
I have been paying about $635 per case through an Illinois distributor who will no longer be able to supply me with product.

Depending on the product, I guess you were saving $55 a case. That would add up quite a bit after awhile.

Not knowing the product, and not knowing what the manufacturer is asking wholesale, it's tough to see exactly how much manufacturers and dealers are really marking up their product.

BTW, Diamond would be out for most card people, unless they've changed their business practices.....which I highly doubt. The expect a minimum $ amount order every month, but don't offer many cards each month.

Typically, each step adds at least a 10% margin on pre-sale, so direct cost should be about $578/case and cost from a non-greedy shop more like $710.

Not that many people pay MSRP from the get-go, but it is $1,008/case (CZ's website lists MSRP at $3.50/pack)

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
I have been paying about $635 per case through an Illinois distributor who will no longer be able to supply me with product.

Depending on the product, I guess you were saving $55 a case. That would add up quite a bit after awhile.

Not knowing the product, and not knowing what the manufacturer is asking wholesale, it's tough to see exactly how much manufacturers and dealers are really marking up their product.

BTW, Diamond would be out for most card people, unless they've changed their business practices.....which I highly doubt. The expect a minimum $ amount order every month, but don't offer many cards each month.

Diamond has changed their minimum order per month and they have been having all the major companies products in their catalog for preorder. SO, you can get the boxes from your comic shops but the cost to you will be pretty close to full retail price!

So we reckon CZE products will be more expensive, for the average collector?

That's how I see it, and tougher to get.

I think it's going to depend on the product.Popular products that sold out under the old system like The Walking Dead and BBT will cost more but it might be that other less popular releases may end up cheaper if you wait a couple of months after release.

Of the three companies mentioned I have only ever dealt with Dave and Adams Card World.They often heavily discount boxes/cases if it does not sell within reasonable time periods simply to clear space for new stock.Just look at the price of Alphas cases now compared to at release.

It's all just guesswork at the moment.Nobody can be certain what the result of this strategy will be until it's actually put into practice.

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
Typically, each step adds at least a 10% margin on pre-sale, so direct cost should be about $578/case and cost from a non-greedy shop more like $710.

Not that many people pay MSRP from the get-go, but it is $1,008/case (CZ's website lists MSRP at $3.50/pack)

You'd be looking at around $690 from GTS, and $605-705 with Diamond, depending on what discount bracket you fall in (if they still do that).

quote:

Originally posted by barobehere:

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
I have been paying about $635 per case through an Illinois distributor who will no longer be able to supply me with product.

Depending on the product, I guess you were saving $55 a case. That would add up quite a bit after awhile.

Not knowing the product, and not knowing what the manufacturer is asking wholesale, it's tough to see exactly how much manufacturers and dealers are really marking up their product.

BTW, Diamond would be out for most card people, unless they've changed their business practices.....which I highly doubt. The expect a minimum $ amount order every month, but don't offer many cards each month.

Diamond has changed their minimum order per month and they have been having all the major companies products in their catalog for preorder. SO, you can get the boxes from your comic shops but the cost to you will be pretty close to full retail price!

Yeah, they always seemed to have all the major companies available. Price and allocations kept me from ordering from them back in the day. What is their minimum order now days? Problem is, if you're only ordering cards, there are times when there's little to nothing being offered on any given month.