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Release date - December 18th

3 packs per box
20 boxes per case
350 cases

3 base cards per pack (100 card set)
1 autograph per pack
1 "Bridge Crew" autograph per box
1 "Movie" autograph per box

Dual/booklet autographs:
William Shatner & Avery Brooks
Benedict Cumberbatch & Ricardo Montalban
George Takei & Grace Lee Whitney

50th Anniversary Autographs:
Leonard Nimoy
Jeri Ryan
Brent Spiner
Nichelle Nichols
Colm Meaney
Marina Sirtis
Jonathan Frakes
Gates McFadden
Terry Farrell
Alexander Siddig
Grace Lee Whitney
Armin Shimerman

Movie Autographs:
Patrick Steward
Benedict Cumberbatch
LeVar Burton
Whoopi Goldberg
Gates McFadden
Ethan Phillips
David Warner
Nicholas Meyer
Christoper Plummer
Malcolm McDowell

Bonus Autographs (i.e. left overs):
Jolene Blalock (auto costume)
Linda Park (auto costume)
Alexander Siddig (Quotable DS9)
Jason Alexander (Quotable Voyager)

Sketches by Kevin Graham
5-costume card (Kirk/Piccard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer)

10-case incentive is a parallel base set

Plus the usual 27 different sub sets, etc.

...and $3200 a case on their site. Really? This is becoming the new normal now apparently.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:
...and $3200 a case on their site. Really? This is becoming the new normal now apparently.

Yeah, if it sells thru to actual collectors and the distributors/dealers make money. The sky's the limit until something fails.

In this case I think any Star Trek card collector who really wanted them already has certified autograph cards for every one of those signers listed. So what exactly is the incentive here?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
In this case I think any Star Trek card collector who really wanted them already has certified autograph cards for every one of those signers listed. So what exactly is the incentive here?

Except probably Benedict Cumberbatch, who's only previous autograph was a nine case incentive, and Christopher Plummer, who I believe is a new signer.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
and Christopher Plummer, who I believe is a new signer.

He signed once before in the Star Trek Movies in Motion set from 2008.

$3200 for a case and you can only get 1 base set from a case.

At these prices a base set is going to cost a set collector roughly $900 ridiculous.
These case and box prices will stop set collectors, then what happens.
Dose our hobby fall over or do we adjust,but what do we adjust too.
There will not be the autographs or chase cards in this set to justify the price.
So it looks like everyone will be a loser.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
and Christopher Plummer, who I believe is a new signer.

He signed once before in the Star Trek Movies in Motion set from 2008.

Ah yes, so he did, but very rare, and on by far the ugliest Trek autograph card design so far, so barely counts

If I were a dealer, I'd want more than a parallel base set as an incentive when I dropped $32,000 for 10 cases.

I'm not sure how well the Outlander CZX set compares, but those boxes are extremely expensive with a few base cards in a box and you can buy a set for like $50.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I'm not sure how well the Outlander CZX set compares, but those boxes are extremely expensive with a few base cards in a box and you can buy a set for like $50.

Despite the way the math seems to work, there is no way anyone tries to sell complete Inflexions or Outlander base sets at that $900 or $600 or whatever it comes to when you calculate it to the case price. Why? Because no one will buy them. Dealers and breakers will take the most they can get, but if that's $50 or $100 that's it.

The logic that an ultra premium set will produce ultra premium base set prices has already been disproven by the premium and ultra premium products that have been released. Sure they are worth more than the old $5 base sets, but $1,000 more, never going to happen.

Some card collectors are also shaking their heads at the parallel set cards, which are supposed to be worth multiple times more than the base version. Many collectors say on the forums that they aren't even actively interested in parallels anymore, especially not when the only difference is a border color and a number.

So dealers and flippers are busting these premium and ultra premium products for the big hits, same as always, and base and parallel cards will still be dumped for the best offer. They will have fewer of them to dump and they won't be desperate to do it unless they really flame out on the hits. But if they have a shortfall on the hits they will be competing for the highest bottom soon enough, which is how we got to $5 base sets to begin with.

The interesting thing looking at Outlander CZX is that despite the boxes being a couple hundred dollars the base cards are a about buck each if you buy a set of them.

The fact that all base cards have basically the same value is an interesting challenge for non-sport cards. . . it's not like a sports card set where a superstar's base card might still bring a fair bit, all the base cards are equally low value.

Yes this is all good ,but from what I understand from these conversations there are no real hits in this set.
Only 2 and there is conflicting information wether these are first time signers .
If this is so and you buy a case and strike it lucky and pull both of them that would be a bonus . But a miss will leave you out of pocket big time .
Regardless what the other Inserts Etc can bring a flipper.
Also regarding these cards in the Box/Case price breakdown will they be able to command a $1000 to $1500 price tag , It might be asked but I think not, so it is still left to the base and other insert cards to make up the shortfall to make a reasonable profit for the flipper.
Dosent selling inventory under cost put you out of buisness.
Only people here making money will be Rittenhouse.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
The interesting thing looking at Outlander CZX is that despite the boxes being a couple hundred dollars the base cards are a about buck each if you buy a set of them.

The fact that all base cards have basically the same value is an interesting challenge for non-sport cards. . . it's not like a sports card set where a superstar's base card might still bring a fair bit, all the base cards are equally low value.

Exactly, no rookie cards, all base cards the same value, all parallel cards the same value, all insert cards the same value, no team changes, no daily performance stats, no HOF.

When card makers seek to adapt the same principles to produce non-sport cards that have proven successful with sports cards they show a lack of understanding of the two separate markets. When people think that what works for sports card collectors will work for non-sport collectors, and vice versa, they haven't lived in both worlds.

The fundamentals between sport card and non-sport card collecting on the basic level is very different and shows up in the way base cards are received and in the way each type of collector chooses to frame the focus of their collection.

The only thing that works for everyone is the high value sport or non-sport premium hits, mainly autographs, relics and sketches. But other than that, it's like comparing apples and oranges because they are both fruit.

quote:

Originally posted by piko:
I think not, so it is still left to the base and other insert cards to make up the shortfall to make a reasonable profit for the flipper.
Dosent selling inventory under cost put you out of buisness.
Only people here making money will be Rittenhouse.

It really is a strange business.

The distribution model is just broken. There literally isn't a single physical store I know of where I can reasonably buy Rittenhouse hobby products. Maybe Blowout's Fantastic store, but that's a bunch of states away from me -- so not reasonable for me.

I really don't understand why RA and other manufacturers don't just sell direct to the customer at what are currently their wholesale prices. Obviously you'd need to sell by the case, but it can't be that difficult to manage the sales and distribution of just 350 cases or product.

It's just so strange that people consider the profit/loss of a flipper.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I really don't understand why RA and other manufacturers don't just sell direct to the customer at what are currently their wholesale prices.

Simple, because there are hits and there are dogs.

If a product is a hit and demand is high, card makers are up to their neck in potential customers. But they have other titles that may not be so well received and those same customers will stay away if they have no reason to support the maker on other products that don't interest them. That's why makers need a consistent distribution system of big distributors or larger dealers that buy at least something from the entire line. That way they know they can sell out of the product, even if they have to build up dealer incentives to do it.

Makers need middlemen to know they have regular outlets established, to take some of the risk of the project away and to do the work of retail selling. And for that those regular wholesale buyers, who are usually in the business themselves, share in the success when the product makes money.

Selling direct to the public would keep those middlemen from making money on the best products and the public will not be around for the dogs. Neither will the middlemen because they won't like being cut out of the loop when things are good. They all need a distribution system, even if it doesn't work so well.

Well, I'm not buying cases, or collecting master sets, or in need of every base set going... I'm the more excited for this than any set in long time. Honestly this forum is getting more like Blowout of late: analysis of cost vs. profit and little to no mention of what actual cards people are excited about.

I love the movie version of the classic TOS autos (my favourite Trek auto design) and was excited when Steve started using this design for the Kelvin timeline actors. Cumberbatch is obviously a great name to see again but I'm hoping Peter Weller is in this one.

Have been waiting for the movie version of Whoopi ever since RA showed a video of her signing the different versions of her autos all those years ago.

Also been looking for a Plummer for ages as but not prepared to pay the daft prices seen of late, so another chance to get him is appreciated.

Nicholas Meyer is a great addition too. Such an important name in Trek.

But most of all I have been looking forward to FINALLY getting what I hope are decent TNG movie images of Patrick Stewart, Gates McFadden and LeVar Burton. I have been waiting 10+ years for Rittenhouse to give us these after the previous versions released with these actors in their 'silly sailor' uniforms.

Just a few great cards that this Trek fan is looking forward to.

Considerations of price aside, this set looks to have something for everyone across all of Trek (bar Discovery).

I am not a Trek collector, but am thinking about buying this release because there are so many great autographs.

At some point I'll probably pick up one of the Whoopi autos. I wish Tom Hardy would sign again.

+1 on another Tom Hardy (on the movie style autos).

Steve at RA teased they had got a 'big' Hollywood name to sign a while back but I don't recall them revealing who. I had my fingers crossed it may be Hardy.

I did enjoy Nemesis.

It's pricey, but I appreciate a chance to pull one of the five signers that I don't have an autograph card for yet.

I wonder if releasing it close to Cryptozoic's Super Heroes and Super Villains (another pricey product) will affect sales.