quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Martyr:
1/1 cut autograph cards are often made rare by virtue of having been made into a card meanwhile something like a signed 8x10 of said personality can sell for less than the card.

Fair point. If you had 3 identical signed items but one was cut up and made into a 1/1 card it would have a far greater value than even the other 2 whole items combined.

Supply and demand I suppose. If people want it badly enough they'll tear through packs until they go bust or hear through the grape vine that its been found elsewhere.

That's how I look at it TC00.

I recently picked up a Marilyn Eastman (Night of the Living Dead actress) 1/1 cut card in the Hooray For Hollywood series. Unbelievably, the autograph is on what I recognized as a 1988 Imagine Night of the Living Dead trading card. So in this case, the manufacturer cut up another trading card to make theirs and therefore: 1.) probably cannot authenticate it themselves directly and 2.) destroyed what is arguably a more valuable card due to its age and collectibility of that series.

I like Marilyn Eastman, very good actress. Congrats on the 1/1 pull.

But how weird - Never heard of that before? Letters, photos, old autograph pages, even checks but another trading card is an odd choice.

Not only, as you pointed out, lack of authentication but perhaps also a copyright issue there, if from another manufacturers set and not their own?

Thanks! While it's kind of a stupid card, it's my only example of the series so I'm quite happy with it. And I happen to already own a copy of the 1988 card from which it was cut!

I actually mentioned this card to the 1988 designer from Imagine and he didn't say anything about copyright but on a personal level I think he's a bit miffed.

By the way, I met Mrs. Eastman once and have corresponded via mail with her. She is very kind and has signed a few of my cards over the years!

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
But how weird - Never heard of that before? Letters, photos, old autograph pages, even checks but another trading card is an odd choice.

Not weird, has happened many times before. People have even been able to identify parts of the old Inkworks' seal in the corners of some cut signature cards. I don't know if there would be any way to make a copyright case out of any cut. I tend to doubt it when you have destroyed the original card/item.

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
But how weird - Never heard of that before? Letters, photos, old autograph pages, even checks but another trading card is an odd choice.

For me this ties right in with the cutting up historical documents thread. . .

The first instance I saw of this happening was when Rittenhouse chopped up Skybox Batman and Robin Arnold Arnold Schwarzenegger autographs to make their Conan cut signatures:



Here is a link to the Skybox card -- the scan is huge so I'm not posting it as an image:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g...cSxaYgWE/s-l1600.jpg

Hm, weren't the more recent multi-signature redemption 'cards' in the Hobbit sets made up from cut up autograph cards from earlier in the release ?

Rittenhouse has a habit of cutting up existing cards to make another one. They also did this with Jonathan Harris for Lost in Space. They cut up his auto card from The Twilight Zone set and slapped it in a Lost in Space card. I'm sure that's what they're planning with James Doohan's card for the upcoming Star Trek Captain's Collection set that's coming out. Honestly, I don't get the point? These types of cards hold no interest for me.

quote:

Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Honestly, I don't get the point? These types of cards hold no interest for me.

I'm with you 100%. . . Oddly (to me) that Conan Archive sold on eBay for over $600. The Skybox Mr. Freeze card that it was cut from has been selling for around half that.

I'm not sure if people don't know what they are buying, or don't care. . . For me though every time I look at that Conan card all I see is a mutilated Skybox card.

Sometimes, it's not just the autograph that's important but the set as well.
I have a Batman & Robin Arnie auto (or 2) but I'd much prefer one from Terminator, even if it's a cut auto. I'm just not willing to pay a lot for it anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Honestly, I don't get the point? These types of cards hold no interest for me.

I'm with you 100%. . . Oddly (to me) that Conan Archive sold on eBay for over $600. The Skybox Mr. Freeze card that it was cut from has been selling for around half that.

I'm not sure if people don't know what they are buying, or don't care. . . For me though every time I look at that Conan card all I see is a mutilated Skybox card.

Other recent examples would be the cut signatures from the latest T2 Anniversary cards done by Unstoppable. The 5 main cast members were all cuts and all but Arnie have very cheap certified autographs in sets like Psych, Smallville and Pop Century/Americana. So where do you think they found the source material for at least some of those cuts?

You can actually see the Inkworks' seal on one of the Morton cuts.

And as to your point, card collectors in general have jumped on to the cut signature bandwagon because its accepted as a limited, usually numbered card, specially made by the manufacturer and a certified hit that is better than a sticker (isn't everything?) and better than an on-card certified autograph (you're kidding me).

Some seem to have completely forgotten the one and only good reason for an artificially limited cut signature card. The signer is dead. That's it for me, the signer is dead and no new signatures can be obtained on anything. I can also accept the idea that a very few people will never be willing to give out an autograph, but there are only a handful that might qualify there.

Substituting a cut signature of Arnie for an expensive on-card of Arnie sounds good, except when you realize that the cut will cost as much or more than the cards you already can't afford.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:
But how weird - Never heard of that before?

Not weird, has happened many times before.

Well in nearly 20 years of collecting it was all news to me! I'll have to look online for examples now.

I don't know about copyright claims but if it's from defunct business like Inkworks there would be no one (and no money) with which to place a copyright claim anyway.

I can only imagine they could only use either their OWN old cards from previous sets (Like Topps branding their own vintage cards) or from manufacturers no longer in existence.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Martyr:
I actually mentioned this card to the 1988 designer from Imagine and he didn't say anything about copyright but on a personal level I think he's a bit miffed.

By the way, I met Mrs. Eastman once and have corresponded via mail with her. She is very kind and has signed a few of my cards over the years!

I can imagine he would be confused about it to say the least.

That's lovely, it's nice when actors give their time to fans, it can be such a small gesture but it means so much.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
For me this ties right in with the cutting up historical documents thread. . .

The first instance I saw of this happening was when Rittenhouse chopped up Skybox Batman and Robin Arnold Arnold Schwarzenegger autographs to make their Conan cut signatures

Wow. Thanks for the example photos and links Webjon!

Yes, I can see how it links to the cutting up historical documents for cards.

I wonder if such things make other cards more or less valuable?

For example if Rittenhouse chopped up a lot of remaining Skybox Arnie autos, would the originals become scarce and more valuable?

Especially as the original were hand signed and these are just cut autos?

quote:

Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Rittenhouse has a habit of cutting up existing cards to make another one... These types of cards hold no interest for me.

For me I automatically associate cut autos with 'deceased' people who aren't around to hand sign (or if alive, too old or ill to sign).

Of course is the 'next best' thing if a living signer WON'T sign, even if they can and a cut autos better than leaving them out of the set.

As for chopping up your own auto cards to 'add' into future sets? I think it's either to avoid having to re-approach (perhaps difficult?) former signers to ask them to sign AGAIN.

Or just using up old stock trying to bump up their sets value with 'look but X (popular signer) is included in this set' even if it's a cut auto card.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Honestly, I don't get the point? These types of cards hold no interest for me.

I'm with you 100%. . . Oddly (to me) that Conan Archive sold on eBay for over $600. The Skybox Mr. Freeze card that it was cut from has been selling for around half that.

This in part answers a question I asked before, above (in reply to webjon) but it is interesting the 'demand' for different autos (Even when it's the same one cut up).

The non-discerning collector who wants a single Arnie auto won't know or notice or probably care.

But I think the character popularity and related set had a lot do with in. For example Conan is perhaps 'Hey Day Arnie' even as a cut auto. But hand signed 'Mr Freeze' is more 'Hey Whatcha Doin? Arnie'. Not as popular. Even if 'more' authentic.

quote:

Originally posted by Raj:
Sometimes, it's not just the autograph that's important but the set as well.
I have a Batman & Robin Arnie auto (or 2) but I'd much prefer one from Terminator, even if it's a cut auto. I'm just not willing to pay a lot for it anymore.

Oh oops I basically said the same thing above , before reading this good point Raj.

Me personally if I just want a particularly persons autograph even if it (annoyingly) doesn't 'match' the set I'm collecting for, I'll always go with the cheapest option. Better than nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Honestly, I don't get the point? These types of cards hold no interest for me.

I'm with you 100%. . . Oddly (to me) that Conan Archive sold on eBay for over $600. The Skybox Mr. Freeze card that it was cut from has been selling for around half that.

I'm not sure if people don't know what they are buying, or don't care. . . For me though every time I look at that Conan card all I see is a mutilated Skybox card.

WOW, that's amazing! I agree, when I look at the Marilyn Eastman cut card, I just see the destroyed 1988 Imagine card. I paid about what I'd have paid for the Imagine card so I'm not unhappy with the buy as it adds an example of another series to my NotLD card collection but it's troublesome to see cards sell for more after being repurposed this way!

quote:

Originally posted by TC00:

quote:

Originally posted by Raj:
Sometimes, it's not just the autograph that's important but the set as well.
I have a Batman & Robin Arnie auto (or 2) but I'd much prefer one from Terminator, even if it's a cut auto. I'm just not willing to pay a lot for it anymore.

Oh oops I basically said the same thing above , before reading this good point Raj.

Me personally if I just want a particularly persons autograph even if it (annoyingly) doesn't 'match' the set I'm collecting for, I'll always go with the cheapest option. Better than nothing.

Cut signature cards are not cheap. They are not being made for the benefit of the collector, but for the benefit of having another high end card(s) in the product. The source material for the autograph may be something that was extremely cheap for the manufacturer to obtain and then third-party authenticate.

Arnie had something like eight T2 Anniversary cuts made. They will cost as much, if not more, than his on-card Batman signature.

So you can make the argument that you really want the card to be about Terminator, since that is the role he is better known for. It's fair to say you want another Arnie on a T2 card and you don't care that it's a cut, even though he is still alive and may sign again somewhere in the future. That's up to you.

But it's not because that cut will be cheaper. The demand for the limited nature of the cut signature card is supposed to be greater, thereby resulting in a higher price. And collectors, by in large, agree with that and don't realize that what they are really getting most of the time is an autograph from an item that they wouldn't buy themselves if they saw it in its complete, unauthenticated, raw form. That is the irony of it all.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

I can't speak for "Arnie" fans since I'm not one really but I imagine that what I'm about to say is a smilar perspective for Arnie and Terminator.

Being a fan and collector of Night of the Living Dead, I am fully aware of the types of items that I can reasonably find and buy that would be signed by a particular cast/crew member. I have numerous items signed by numerous members of the cast and crew. So I personally am not going be wowed by a cut autograph from a mainstream card series.

However, someone who is not a dedicated NotLD fan/collector but who just collects general autographs of celebs may find an appeal in the cut card which is perhaps more widely known.

Just like I don't collect Terminator so I don't have/know anything about Terminator cards but maybe I'll happen across or pull an Arnie cut auto card and am happy with that because I don't want/care about the entire dedicated card series.

Is this what you mean?