quote:

Originally posted by Bassam Abdul-Baki:
I have a 2024 Fleer Ultra Matriarchs of Marvel MAT-23 sketch card (assigned to Ed Blias) drawn and signed by Bete Rodrigues (assigned MAT-9). That is my favorite UER because it appears to be a one-off since it's a sketch card.

Thats an interesting concept, an error Sketch card. There aren’t many ways that can happen but your example here would be one way. Here are ways a sketch can be an error, let me know if I’m missing any:

- The artist does not match that artist ID template (your example)

- The character drawn does not match the template specified character (a few sketch sets have that- 2013 Marvel Fleer Retro comes to mind)

-Mistake on the actual template

-Sketch is drawn upside down in relation to the stock. Hard to see the front template here but here’s an example (2020 Marvel Masterpieces sketch by Glebe twins, hes upside down on the stock):



- An error in the drawn content of the sketch. I think we should be careful here because artists have a lot of creative license to make what art they want and it isn’t necessarily “wrong”, but some things are irrefutably wrong, like how Psylocke is misspelled on this sketch (2008 Marvel Masterpieces sketch by Joyce). I’m sure you can imagine other ways a sketch can be ‘drawn wrong’. Does an error like this really matter? In my opinion…no.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:

Oh it’s definitely gonna be some semantics and definitional variety within the hobby for sure

I can tell you prefer the term error to be used only when the card is actually corrected.

That,s a great point CER’s can have more the one replaced version (It’s true this will generally be lumped into Variant for me, including the Billy Ripken FF).

I may not have been clear on the Variant thing. I totally agree the term variant in general has all kinds of meanings in the card hobby, including like you said different types of relics or even just parallels are sometimes called variants. I think in my definitions Variant and Corrected error have very similar meanings, I’m just separating them because of the nature of whats being corrected.

As for misprints, I can tell we are gonna be somewhat at odds on that because you consider it damage and I don’t . . .

Oh boy, I think we may be at risk of actually understanding each other.

As to the question of an error sketch card, I have never had occasion to discuss that issue, but I think the bigger problem might be in proving the official provenance of the sketch if it's a case where the sketch artist doesn't match the artist ID on the template. Now the template would be the back of the official cardstock, and the front is basically the blank frame.

Blank cardstock moves around between the set maker and the authorized artists. It comes back to the maker after the sketches are submitted as complete jobs. Some may then be rejected outright or returned as artist compensation. Are all blank cardstock accounted for at the end? Very unlikely that anyone is accurately tracking it. Who knows how many are even held in reserve. So to me, the control of blanks that are official cardstock ready for a sketch to be done is a big gray area.

The card makers don't help much after release because you can find only limited data of who drew what in a set. Maybe a few sketches get photographed as promotion. Most are just seen when they turn up on eBay.

It is an absolute no-no for an artist to recolor or alter or sketch over another artist's work, but can it happen? Of course, it's easy to do. Can official blank cardstock get handed around? Why not. Artists are not supposed to use them, but would a card maker find out? Not if it were only a few.

I'm not suggesting that's what happened, I'm just saying that there is an aftermarket for sketches and it screws up the provenance unless you have contact with the actual artist who drew it or the one named on the back. Dealing with officially licensed sketch cards can get hairy, more so even a few years back when there was a lot of commission work being done. You really need to be an expert if you want to buy expensive licensed sketches and don't get to pack pull them yourself.

Ensuring authenticity is the first priority in sketch collecting. I wouldn't know where to begin if you threw in an error sketch.

@John Levitt - I have a full set of correct cards plus one of the four error cards. They are in a binder downstairs and I didn't want to go down there, dig them out, put them in the scanner, scan them, upload them, and then put the cards back, so I grabbed a couple off the interenet.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
@John Levitt - I have a full set of correct cards plus one of the four error cards. They are in a binder downstairs and I didn't want to go down there, dig them out, put them in the scanner, scan them, upload them, and then put the cards back, so I grabbed a couple off the internet.

Bill

Many thanks, I only wish I had even one original card and I do apologies for my tone in my earlier comment. As I mentioned in my earlier post since their original issue various trade companies have issued some or all of them since and in 1989 one of the larger UK dealers reprinted the entire 50 card set which I do have which alas is not the same as owning the originals. You have collected very wisely.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:
I may not have been clear on the Variant thing. I totally agree the term variant in general has all kinds of meanings in the card hobby, including like you said different types of relics or even just parallels are sometimes called variants. Instead I’m just using that word in a very specific, technical sense here to create a new category: cards that had designed changed during production but not a change to “correct something thats wrong”. Because after all, it doesnt make sense to call either of those Sauron’s an error because there is nothing “wrong” with either way hes facing. Fleer making a different version is really just creating a variant in a way. Here would be another example I’d call a Variant from Marvel- Impel’s 1990 Marvel Universe Hologram MH5, comes in 2 variants. Neither of these is technically ‘wrong’ since the front hologram is horizontal and so neither back is really “upside down”.





(The top variant actually is quite a bit rarer but not totally scarce…it maybe goes for up to a few tens of dollars). I think in my definitions Variant and Corrected error have very similar meanings, I’m just separating them because of the nature of whats being corrected.

As for misprints, I can tell we are gonna be somewhat at odds on that because you consider it damage and I don’t…but that’s part of the fun of subjective definition Heck I get lazy a lot and just lump a lot of this- misprints, variants, corrected errors, etc just under a general umbrella “Error”. Sort of helps with eBay listing titles as well to just use the term Error, since most of the hobby just calls it that- like that Blade/Deadpool above with the inverted wrong foil, a huge chunk of the hobby would just call that an error I think.

There's actually a third variant with the smoke above the hand.