In a couple of threads we have talked about proofs, which in the trading card world are often pre-production versions that show what the finished product can look like allowing creators to make changes before the final version.

Sometimes, "proof" is used interchangeably with "promo" or "prototype" as with some of the cards by Unstoppable. Proofs are generally not officially released to the public. They often get thrown away but sometimes an employee keeps one and it ends up years later on Ebay.

Anyway, here's an example of a finished card - in this case a promo (Krome Productions, 1994) for Lady Death: Between Heaven and Hell and a proof from when the card was beyond the idea stage and had reached the point of being a physical item already looking like what it ended up being.

The promo is standard size but the proof is slightly larger at 2 5/8 x 3 5/8 inches and is just the chromium layer without a card stock backing. When you hold the proof, it's rather fragile like a section of filmstrip bending a bit if you don't hold it flat. The back is reflective like silver foil.

The symbol near the lower right corner is silver in the proof but more of a copper color in the promo.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In a couple of threads we have talked about proofs, which in the trading card world are often pre-production versions that show what the finished product can look like allowing creators to make changes before the final version.

Sometimes, "proof" is used interchangeably with "promo" or "prototype" as with some of the cards by Unstoppable. Proofs are generally not officially released to the public. They often get thrown away but sometimes an employee keeps one and it ends up years later on Ebay.

Hey Jess. I noticed that the card example you use is from 1994 Lady Death. So are you talking about only the older versions of proof cards? Like a lot of things in this hobby, newer products have twisted old ideas. They are making pre-production proofs and seeding them in new product.

Specifically, I have seen that Leaf is putting pre-production proofs in Pop Century as 1/1 cards for a while now. They are not on cardboard, more like plastic. They appear to be released as inserts or hits and probably made for every card. So far they don't seem to be worth much to collectors, usually less than $15 on eBay for most. Maybe they will catch on in another 30 years too. What do you think?

Did not Topps release proof cards from their vault a while back?

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
Did not Topps release proof cards from their vault a while back?

Sorry, I forgot about this thread because I thought someone else would answer. Guess there aren't too many people interested in proof cards and I only see them by accident myself.

The Topps Vault has released a bunch of them over the years from both their sports and non-sport products. They come with certificates from the Vault, which should always be included in sales from third parties to verify that it's the original source. I think, but I'm not positive, that all Topps Proof cards should have blank backs.

Now you can find numerous Topps Vault Proof cards on eBay, with fairly good asking prices on some. Many of the cards are from older Topps products, but Star Wars and Stranger Things are there too, so they must be keeping it up.

As far as what other manufacturers call Proofs, or Pre-Production, or Samples, well that's a subject for itself. I think much of it is just to make a cheap variant and claim some legitimate rarity. Perhaps any real Proof cards collectors out there could weigh in on that.

But that does seem to be the case for me with all of these 1/1 Leaf Pop Century Pre-Production Proofs, which I have seen in person. They are made of flimsy plastic and have blank shiny prism backs. They are in a separate holder inside the boxes and average 2 per pack. They are very cheaply priced on eBay, so it doesn't look like there is much demand for them, which I can understand after you see them.

I have about 20 cigarette card proofs with the oldest from the 1890's. I cannot put a date to it although the original set it is a proof of was issued in 1898. The most proofs I have were probably issued in the 1950's and they total over 100 but I also have some from more recent issues. I don't include "Dealer Proofs" issued by Unstoppable because the are merely a form of chase card that is purposely short printed to enable a dealer to get a high price for them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JOHN LEVITT,

Hey Raven,

Yeah, I'm mostly talking about the older definition of proofs which only some collectors would be interested in. Although, as you noted in today's post, there's not a whole lot of interest in what are called proofs today. As John said, they are now just another card type the manufacturer wants to sell.

You really needed to get in on stuff when the Topps Vault was first open because the resellers want way too much. Yeah, some Star Wars ones are going to sell but not everything. For a lot of that other stuff, a rather small mark-up (30-50%) could have brought a quick sale, but no, let's try to more than triple the money and then wait. Those sellers ended up waiting and waiting and are still waiting.

If you think less interest in proofs (prooves?) is going to stop me from showing more examples, you are quite mistaken.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In a couple of threads we have talked about proofs, which in the trading card world are often pre-production versions that show what the finished product can look like allowing creators to make changes before the final version.

Sometimes, "proof" is used interchangeably with "promo" or "prototype" as with some of the cards by Unstoppable. Proofs are generally not officially released to the public. They often get thrown away but sometimes an employee keeps one and it ends up years later on Ebay.

Hey Jess. I noticed that the card example you use is from 1994 Lady Death. So are you talking about only the older versions of proof cards? Like a lot of things in this hobby, newer products have twisted old ideas. They are making pre-production proofs and seeding them in new product.

Specifically, I have seen that Leaf is putting pre-production proofs in Pop Century as 1/1 cards for a while now. They are not on cardboard, more like plastic. They appear to be released as inserts or hits and probably made for every card. So far they don't seem to be worth much to collectors, usually less than $15 on eBay for most. Maybe they will catch on in another 30 years too. What do you think?

Here's a card that is stamped as an "OFFICIAL PROOF" on the front. It promotes the 1987 movie, "Born in East L.A." and is said to have been given out in theaters when the movie came out. It is blank-backed like old school proofs.

Just for the sake of accounting for the range of definitions of "proof" as it applies to trading cards, here's one of those Unstoppable black-and-white proofs (though it doesn't say so on the card) along with the color promo.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Just for the sake of accounting for the range of definitions of "proof" as it applies to trading cards, here's one of those Unstoppable black-and-white proofs (though it doesn't say so on the card) along with the color promo.

So for the sake of definition and as someone who really doesn't collect promos or proofs, I didn't think they were the same. That Unstoppable card is clearly labeled as a Dealer Promo. I know Dealer Promos do get made for favorite sons now and again for extra benefit, but it is still for promotion of the product.

The Proof card as I always understood it, is more in line with a Sample or a Prototype that had something to do with the manufacturing. Before they started making all these exclusive Dealer promos, promos in general were not a limited card as they were handed out for free. However, the Proof or the Prototype was seen as very limited, even though I'm sure they were made with the intention of sale too.

So am I wrong in thinking that something called a promo right on the card, cannot also be considered a proof card? Besides the color difference, I'm not seeing which version is a proof and which is a promo, as they both say promo.

In the case of the unstoppable card i think if i was going to call it a proof it should have proof stamped on the back of it and be numbered 1/?.

otherwise it is just a black & white variant of the color promo.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
In the case of the unstoppable card i think if i was going to call it a proof it should have proof stamped on the back of it and be numbered 1/?.

otherwise it is just a black & white variant of the color promo.

Yes, that's how I'd call it too. Especially since just about every Proof card I've ever seen has a blank back.

But I'm not that familiar with Unstoppable products or the terminology they may have used.