quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

Is the "YOU" a retailer who is acting as a merchant or a regular customer?

Merchants have to pay fees according to their authorization agreements, regular customers do not. If regular customers leave an existing balance they will have to pay interest on it, not fees. They may get a fee if they do something else, like bounce a check. I can't recall ever paying a fee for using a credit card any place.

It gets complicated trying to explain it because there are different rules and different terms based on where that "YOU" falls in the transaction.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

Is the "YOU" a retailer who is acting as a merchant or a regular customer?

Merchants have to pay fees according to their authorization agreements, regular customers do not. If regular customers leave an existing balance they will have to pay interest on it, not fees. They may get a fee if they do something else, like bounce a check. I can't recall ever paying a fee for using a credit card any place.

It gets complicated trying to explain it because there are different rules and different terms based on where that "YOU" falls in the transaction.

I Literally GIVE up

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

Is the "YOU" a retailer who is acting as a merchant or a regular customer?

Merchants have to pay fees according to their authorization agreements, regular customers do not. If regular customers leave an existing balance they will have to pay interest on it, not fees. They may get a fee if they do something else, like bounce a check. I can't recall ever paying a fee for using a credit card any place.

It gets complicated trying to explain it because there are different rules and different terms based on where that "YOU" falls in the transaction.

I Literally GIVE up

Don't be confused. I think Raven is talking about the consumer end of the transaction, which wasn't at all what was being discussed before.

If you are paying a company to process credit card transactions you are paying a fee on the entire transaction -- even sales tax. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

Is the "YOU" a retailer who is acting as a merchant or a regular customer?

Merchants have to pay fees according to their authorization agreements, regular customers do not. If regular customers leave an existing balance they will have to pay interest on it, not fees. They may get a fee if they do something else, like bounce a check. I can't recall ever paying a fee for using a credit card any place.

It gets complicated trying to explain it because there are different rules and different terms based on where that "YOU" falls in the transaction.

I Literally GIVE up

Don't be confused. I think Raven is talking about the consumer end of the transaction, which wasn't at all what was being discussed before.

If you are paying a company to process credit card transactions you are paying a fee on the entire transaction -- even sales tax. Period.

I'm not confused - why do some of you think the rest of us are stupid and don't understand anything??

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

That is how credit card processing works. The processor (Paypal in this case) doesn't differentiate anything about the charge, they just process the charge and subtract their fee from it. This is the same anywhere you use a credit card.

Is the "YOU" a retailer who is acting as a merchant or a regular customer?

Merchants have to pay fees according to their authorization agreements, regular customers do not. If regular customers leave an existing balance they will have to pay interest on it, not fees. They may get a fee if they do something else, like bounce a check. I can't recall ever paying a fee for using a credit card any place.

It gets complicated trying to explain it because there are different rules and different terms based on where that "YOU" falls in the transaction.

I Literally GIVE up

Don't be confused. I think Raven is talking about the consumer end of the transaction, which wasn't at all what was being discussed before.

If you are paying a company to process credit card transactions you are paying a fee on the entire transaction -- even sales tax. Period.

I'm not confused - why do some of you think the rest of us are stupid and don't understand anything??

I apologize if I said anything to make you feel that way. Certainly was not my intention. I was just responding to the initial comment referring to paypal as thieves.

Can i just say i am stupid and i don't understand anything, thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
Can i just say i am stupid and i don't understand anything, thank you.

I laughed, you're welcome.

E Bay disguising extra shipping and handling charges as Import Duty
I recently purchased an item through E Bay as the seller used E Bays Global Shipping Programe
and it was what I thought was cheap shipping i did my first purchase through this service
The Item cost
$US16.99
Shipping to New Zealand via the G S P $US12.19
Duty $US8.82 I paid
Then realised what was the %50 duty charge for
I enquired about it asking for a breakdown E Bay came back with the same figures now the duty had been changed to Import Duty
My reply Not Happy explain more
E Bay reply
Benefit of GSP collect all shipping and import fees up front to help make sure that you pay nothing upon delivery
Fees are paid to Pitney Bowes our shipping partner who handles international aspects for sellers that may not ship internationally,any import fees are not only the import fees charged by you country for wich certain items may be exempt (NZ dose not have import fees on items under $1.000)they also include taxes and brokerage fees that are incurred for filing the proper paperwork and handling of the parcel (Isnt that what the $12 19 shipping costs are for)
The fees are not recoverable
I then got onto NZ Customs who referred me too the NZ Tax dept as they never handled anything under a $1.000
No luck there back to customs after getting a customer support officer this was the reply I received from him
E Bay is collecting a shipping cost from you wich will cover the domestic movement of the goods from the seller to Pitney Bowes warehouse and the international movement of the goods to New Zealand it may not cover the customs clearance requirements in the USA and in NZ a portion of the $8.82 wich is GST and the remainder is explained by E Bay brokerage fees that are incurred for filing proper paperwork and handling of parcel.
You have not paid Import Duty at all you will have paid GST %15 = $4.58 US on value of contents and shipping .
E Bay should be able to give you a receipt showing ammount of GST collected.
So far E Bay have been reluctant to do this .
To me these fees should be shown in the shipping costs that are shown by the seller not disguised as extra costs as duty
The cost charged is at least %50 of the cost of the article wich I think is exorbitant Imagine if my item cost $100.00 what would it be then and who would get the money.
I was under the impression that when you mail a parcel pay for Stamps tracking insurance etc your parcel is delivered to your mailbox or door the Post Office dont come back with brokerage and handling charges.
another E Bay extra charges rip off

You lost me when you said Global Shipping Programe, possibly the biggest rip off associated with ebay purchases ever and gauranteed to kill stone dead any sales from America to the UK, certainly as far as i am concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
You lost me when you said Global Shipping Programe, possibly the biggest rip off associated with ebay purchases ever and gauranteed to kill stone dead any sales from America to the UK, certainly as far as i am concerned.

Same here. If I see the Global Rip-Off Shipping Prog I don't even bother looking at the listing and scroll on by. No item is worth paying into that twisted daylight robbery scheme. They also seem to charge duty on items that wouldn't even get a normal Customs charge. No thanks!

I honestly don't think that a lot of the fees lost in international purchases has to do with shipping charges, customs rates or taxes. That's what its called. It may even be where it goes, but not because its necessary, just because that's the system.

With eBay you are dealing with buyer protection guarantees and sellers that don't want to take chances on getting ripped off by those guarantees. So everyone stays within the channels offered and you can't blame them. Blame eBay for setting up blanket rules and no case by case reviews, even though they claim to be responsive to both sellers and buyers.

This past Xmas I bought something from Amazon that was only available in the UK store. It cost $28.46. Shipping was $8.64 and tax, I assume the NY sales tax, was $3.30. The total cost was $40.40. Now that is close to anything I could purchase as a domestic transaction. True, its going in the other direction, but why wasn't it anymore? Doesn't UK customs or something also apply for entering into the US? If Amazon UK is reasonable enough, why can't eBay do it? Well I wasn't using Amazon pay, so I had no third-party protection and I think that's the primary reason. I could be wrong about that, but that's my impression. If someone knows any better, I'd like to know too.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Raven

As I understand it the 20% VAT tax we pay in the UK should not be applied to goods going to the USA.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
Raven

As I understand it the 20% VAT tax we pay in the UK should not be applied to goods going to the USA.

regards

John

So that takes care of that part, but its not fair to you. I image the excuse is to encourage people to keep buying within their national economy. There has been occasional talk of creating a VAT tax here too. Yet they want to sing the praises of global trade on the larger scale and even universal currency. See how the Euro is working out for that one. Don't get me started, we are all pawns. Thanks for the info.

I am still going to go head to toe with E Bay
They describe it all in their smallprint but not on the sales , so when there is a complaint they roll out the smallprint and get big boots to kick you with,
As the fees were described as Duty or Import Duty i was not notified that it also covered brokerage fees I should of been notified that ,but I only was told that it was tax wich was not correct .
Even though the ammount is small i am still going to file for a refund it is the principle
of the matter.Also it seems that I am also liable for the shipping costs from the seller to Pitney Bowes so dose the seller get free shipping of course not, ,
surely this is double dipping
Sneaky E Bay hiding behind small print dont mind ripping off customers but when they think you are dealing outside of E Bay and ripping them off the boot is on the other foot

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
Raven

As I understand it the 20% VAT tax we pay in the UK should not be applied to goods going to the USA.

regards

John

So that takes care of that part, but its not fair to you. I image the excuse is to encourage people to keep buying within their national economy. There has been occasional talk of creating a VAT tax here too. Yet they want to sing the praises of global trade on the larger scale and even universal currency. See how the Euro is working out for that one. Don't get me started, we are all pawns. Thanks for the info.

Raven

In principle it is not unfair as you have a State Sales Tax albeit at a smaller percentage whereas we don't.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
In principle it is not unfair as you have a State Sales Tax albeit at a smaller percentage whereas we don't.
John

True, but I say its unfair to you not just because a 20% VAT is higher than my State sales tax and local taxes that are slightly under 9% total, but also because it particularly targets your ability to make an international purchase.

Not talking about different shipping charges, whether I bought a domestic item or went to an international seller, my sales tax would be calculated the same way. So the existence of a State sales tax isn't a consideration for my making or not making an international purchase. I pay just as much either way.

In the UK, if I understand how you explained it, domestic purchases would not incur a tax. So the 20% VAT would certainly be a factor in whether or not you decided that an international buy was worth it to you. That why I said it encourages your national economy, but at the expense of freely using a larger market that will cost you more. Is that not right?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
In principle it is not unfair as you have a State Sales Tax albeit at a smaller percentage whereas we don't.
John

True, but I say its unfair to you not just because a 20% VAT is higher than my State sales tax and local taxes that are slightly under 9% total, but also because it particularly targets your ability to make an international purchase.

Not talking about different shipping charges, whether I bought a domestic item or went to an international seller, my sales tax would be calculated the same way. So the existence of a State sales tax isn't a consideration for my making or not making an international purchase. I pay just as much either way.

In the UK, if I understand how you explained it, domestic purchases would not incur a tax. So the 20% VAT would certainly be a factor in whether or not you decided that an international buy was worth it to you. That why I said it encourages your national economy, but at the expense of freely using a larger market that will cost you more. Is that not right?

20% VAT is on most items bought here within the UK and paid on items by all UK residents. Some shopping receipts will show a breakdown of the cost and what the VAT is, but all items are usually priced with it added anyway.
The only way we would have to pay VAT to shop internationally is if it got caught in Customs. And those rates can vary depending on the type of item, then plus a handling fee.
So 20% VAT doesn't really put off buying from outside the UK. In fact, if you know a friendly seller(away from ebay) who will fill in the Customs form in an even 'friendlier' manner to go through Customs with no fee(under £18), at risk of being hung, drawn and quartered, then we would pay no tax anywhere, except the shipping cost.
So it is the shipping cost and whether the rip off GSP is used that would determine most of our international purchases and have nothing to do with UK VAT.
There are a few categories that have VAT variations. And that has led to age long debates about whether Jaffa cakes are cakes or biscuits...one is charged VAT the other category isn't. But the way the world is right now I guess the quibbling of tax over cakes or trading cards, pales in comparison.

Then I misunderstood VAT, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Then I misunderstood VAT, thanks.

I would say 99% of people in the UK are the same , mainly because it's hidden inside the price rather than shown as a tax amount on top .

One thing it took me a while to get used to when on holiday in the USA is the price displayed in a shop is not the price you pay at the till.