quote:

Originally posted by piko:

Also US states tax is being added to my purchases it is getting out of hand, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Are you saying that the US State that your purchase is coming from adds sales tax to your purchase? Because that's not how it is supposed to work. Only the state in which the receiver lives can add tax (and you being from New Zealand, no US states should be adding tax to your purchases).

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by piko:

Also US states tax is being added to my purchases it is getting out of hand, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Are you saying that the US State that your purchase is coming from adds sales tax to your purchase? Because that's not how it is supposed to work. Only the state in which the receiver lives can add tax (and you being from New Zealand, no US states should be adding tax to your purchases).

Unless they are using a mail forwarding service.
Then they get charged for the tax based on where the cards are being shipped to.

That would be my guess.

Ed

The way I see it, is that the large Internet selling companies like Amazon and eBay are imposing the Internet sales tax on the seller rather than the buyer because they want to ensue that the authorities imposing the tax can be informed that they are imposing the tax and "we" are paying you it. It will then be upto the seller to obtain the tax from the buyer. What concerns me is that when the product comes from the manufacturer some form of sales tax must be charged and then when that buyer come seller sells on the product a sales tax is then applied again.

Yes Ed you are right I use a N Z post mail forwarding based in Oregon
I can wait until I have up to 10 parcels anything over 2 parcels is basically free shipping as by combining i am only charged for the shipping on 2 of them it used to be $8us per parcel $12 nz so anything over 2 parcels is free
I usually wait and arrange to have at least 5 parcels to get sent
But now there are all sorts of taxes from everywhere it has now gone up to $14.50 nz per parcel
I also try to get at least 5 or 6 cards from each seller
But with all these taxes I am going to drastically cut down on buying cards

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by piko:

Also US states tax is being added to my purchases it is getting out of hand, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Are you saying that the US State that your purchase is coming from adds sales tax to your purchase? Because that's not how it is supposed to work. Only the state in which the receiver lives can add tax (and you being from New Zealand, no US states should be adding tax to your purchases).

Then they will call it something different and hit them with it some other way. If we are all now stuck paying the additional State sales tax on everything we buy, do you think the tax experts will let international buyers slide? Not a chance!

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Then they will call it something different and hit them with it some other way. If we are all now stuck paying the additional State sales tax on everything we buy, do you think the tax experts will let international buyers slide? Not a chance!

That's just not how sales taxes work. . .

Honestly, I wish they'd do this for sales to the UK as well. We either have to keep everything below $19 in value, pay the stupidly high shipping costs their silly Global Shipping Programme thing, or wait until things arrive then fork over £8 per item to the postal service as a "handling fee", plus the tax. I'd rather just pay the tax.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Then they will call it something different and hit them with it some other way. If we are all now stuck paying the additional State sales tax on everything we buy, do you think the tax experts will let international buyers slide? Not a chance!

That's just not how sales taxes work. . .

And that's why it will be called something else.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
What concerns me is that when the product comes from the manufacturer some form of sales tax must be charged and then when that buyer come seller sells on the product a sales tax is then applied again.

Yes, it's double dipping on the same item, but that was really always the way. Each time an item changes hands it is another sale and probably another price, so to apply an applicable sales tax was always done.

The change for sites like eBay and Amazon was that the buyer got away with the sales tax if the seller was in another State. Only sales from same State buyers and sellers incurred the sales tax. Now it doesn't matter where the seller is, the State sales tax has to be collected from the buyer. So those sites are now programmed to grab sales tax on virtually all the transactions, except where certain types of items may not be applicable.

How all this effects international buyers is another issue that I guess you are finding out as transactions occur, but I'm sure the systems are covering themselves, as I think you seem to be saying. It's logical to assume that either the buyer or the seller is going to get hit with either paying more or getting less and in some cases it may be on both ends. If it's not cited as sales tax, it will be down under some other category or just be an increase in something that already existed. Buyers are just not getting the tax breaks on internet transactions in the US anymore.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

What concerns me is that when the product comes from the manufacturer some form of sales tax must be charged and then when that buyer come seller sells on the product a sales tax is then applied again.

People/Companies who are buying at wholesale are not charged sales tax.

In theory only the end user of a product should be paying sales tax. Some items -- like automobiles can have multiple end users so in those cases sales tax may occur multiple times.

In our hobby things often end up with multiple end users because of how frequently cards change hands. When the manufacturer sells to a dealer there should be no sales tax. When the dealer sells to a consumer there should be sales tax. . . If that consumer resells sales tax will typically be collected again as this is an end user to end user transaction (however there can be an exemption here if, for example, the end user sells to a dealer who is buying for resale).

It is complex. . .

And further complicated because sales tax is based on the buyer's location.

Some states don't have any sales tax at all.

If our are out of the country and having items shipped directly to you there should be no sales tax collected.

If you are getting it shipped within the US and forwarded you may still be able to get a sales tax exemption if you can prove the final destination is outside of the country (although I'm not sure how that works with eBay).

Out of the 50 States, only 5 currently have no State sales tax - Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon. All others have some sort of sales tax, but may or may not have exceptions on certain types of items. Clothing is often exempt and it may be up to certain dollar amounts. Localities may also be applying additional taxes to purchases.

Its all very complex and most people don't know what they are paying for or how much they should be paying. For example the State sales tax in New York is only 4%, but when I buy something in a store that is not exempt, such as clothing under $110, I really have to pay a sales tax of 8.875%. The additional 4.875% is for New York City, as other local and municipal taxes also get applied in the single recorded tax of 8.875%. The various tax agencies get to break it up amongst themselves when the seller has to turn the taxes over that they collected.

The buyer basically pays whatever comes out on the cash register receipt and its supposed to be right. Every now and then someone finds that some place was charging too much or applied tax on something they shouldn't, but that's rare.

If we have these issues figuring out sales tax when we are physically purchasing items, imagine how complicated it must get when it is done by website systems that are gathering monies based on the tax codes of 45 different States.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Each time an item changes hands it is another sale and probably another price, so to apply an applicable sales tax was always done.

No, no, no. If you sell things at retail, and have an account with your state to send them the taxes you collect at retail sales, then you have an exemption from paying sales tax when you buy. But you have to provide proof of that -- your tax number -- to the seller you are buying from, so they can justify not collecting sales tax on that purchase. See here.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Each time an item changes hands it is another sale and probably another price, so to apply an applicable sales tax was always done.

No, no, no. If you sell things at retail, and have an account with your state to send them the taxes you collect at retail sales, then you have an exemption from paying sales tax when you buy. But you have to provide proof of that -- your tax number -- to the seller you are buying from, so they can justify not collecting sales tax on that purchase. See here.

I was not speaking as a seller Bill. Not wholesale, not retail, not any sale. And not as a tax exempt buyer either. I am none of those things. I am a consumer and I get hit with sales tax on all applicable sales as the buyer. If the item is not applicable for sales tax it's not added, but if it comes with the purchase I, and everyone else who are not tax accountants, accept it and pay it when it appears as part of the transaction.

Yes there are exceptions, but the rules have changed and normal every-day buyers are paying more sales tax, as well as other types of taxes, because there are fewer exceptions. Can we at least agree on that, especially since people can see the increases on what they are buying?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

You said "double dipping" -- that if an item went from the manufacturer to an intermediate to the final customer, that sales taxes would be applied at two separate steps. They aren't, if the intermediate is a legitimate business. That's what I was responding to.

And sales taxes on mail order purchases aren't that new, at least here in Alabama. If I bought something 10 years ago on ebay, I was still responsible for paying the sales tax. There was a line on my state income tax form to report mail order purchases which had not had sales tax collected, and to add the appropriate tax. Ebay collecting it makes my life easier, since I don't have to include those purchases now when I do my taxes. And this applies to New York residents, too -- see line 59 on your tax form.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
And this applies to New York residents, too -- see line 59 on your tax form.

Well it's coming up again, so when I get to line 59 I'll think of you Bill.

I knew that a 'sales tax' free internet would not last forever. But I did think it would last at least another decade, and start at a lower rate and work it's way up.

Just seen this discussion so I had a look at my recent sales to the USA. The last three sales have been to buyers in Oregon , Virginia , and Alabama .

The Oregon purchase had no tax while the other two had tax amounts added to the amount I received and then the same amount deducted but crucially after Paypal has taken it's percentage of the higher amount..

Basically the only extra charge I am incurring as the seller is the higher paypal fee because of the increased amount sent by the buyer.

quote:

Originally posted by Triple-Frog:

Basically the only extra charge I am incurring as the seller is the higher paypal fee because of the increased amount sent by the buyer.

Unbelievable - Paypal is charging you for a fee you aren't even receiving. They are even bigger thieves than before

quote:

Originally posted by Triple-Frog:
Basically the only extra charge I am incurring as the seller is the higher paypal fee because of the increased amount sent by the buyer.

That is a very common abuse that largely goes unchallenged and may even be legal, but doesn't seem fair. I get it a lot when figuring out shipping charges. They make you calculate the sales tax and add it to the total before you go to the shipping chart. Then the sales tax pushes you into a higher bracket. It's the same concept and whether the increased cost falls on the buyer or seller, the idea is to up the price to add on higher fees.

On the plus side, and going to Bill's comment about State tax returns and line 59, since we in the US are paying more internet State sales tax straight off, there seems to be less unpaid sales tax that has to be claimed on the annual return for an average person. That's not tax advice, so don't quote me , I'm just saying that I had to pay applicable State sales taxes on virtually everything I ordered, so there is little unpaid money to declare without having some exception that applies.

For me as the seller the cost is very small ( I think it worked out at about an extra 5p on a £10 sale ) .

My main worry is that once buyers realise the extra cost it may put them off bidding.