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Originally posted by tangent:

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Originally posted by Raven:

The theory has been expressed that if you make more product it has to be watered down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would only be true if a manufacturer tried to increase production late in the game. You can't change 3000 boxes into 4000 boxes overnight if you only have enough autos, sketches or whatever hits for the 3000 originally planned. But if you're planning to produce the 4000 then you would have enough to meet whatever the number of hits guaranteed per box. The product would require a bigger investment, but you would take in even more money in line with the expected profit margin when it sells out, as it still should do when the demand is there.

Say you are doing 2 autos per box. If you change from planned 3000 boxes to 4000, that means an extra 2000 autos. Given the rarity of main cast autos now, I am assuming that the most likely people to sign those additional autos are the minor guest stars. Similarly, if it's a sketch oriented product, the 10 artists who have the spare time to do an additional 100 sketches each are not going to be the fan favourite ones. Hence my comment that increasing production runs is likely to reduce quality.

I understand your logic, but that's why I said the investment would have to be bigger to match what would be a higher volume of sales and thus more profit. Star autographs and sketches by major artists are always going to be limited in any product. There are other things manufacturers can do to maintain the quality because the ratios for pulling those big hits are generally low anyway.

You are saying that making more boxes will reduce that ratio even further, but I am saying that the signer list can be expanded and more quality artists can contribute because more money will be put into it in line with the increased number made. Who knows, maybe even some of those original big stars and artists might do twice as many cards if they were paid twice as much.

Plus let's remember that we are talking about this because of product that is limited, sold out and marked up fast. You can forget about hitting any ratios when you can't find boxes or can't afford them when you do.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

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Originally posted by Raven:
You are saying that making more boxes will reduce that ratio even further, but I am saying that the signer list can be expanded and more quality artists can contribute because more money will be put into it in line with the increased number made. Who knows, maybe even some of those original big stars and artists might do twice as many cards if they were paid twice as much.

The quantity of autographs and sketches produced by the big stars and artists isn't just a matter of money, especially not for the artists who get paid peanuts for their time and effort. If you follow any of the chatter on Scoundrel and Facebook, you would see that a lot of artists are already being pressed to do more work than they actually have time for. They can't give all of their time and effort to producing high quality sketches for official card sets. Most would be literally starving, homeless artists if they did. At $3-$5 per sketch, they hardly cover the cost of the pens, ink, paint, brushes and whatever never mind paying for luxuries like food and accommodation. Before being asked to do twice as many cards at the same rate, I suspect they'd prefer to be offered double the rate they're currently getting to make the existing work viable. Artists are people not robots

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Originally posted by Kevin F:

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Originally posted by Raven:
You are saying that making more boxes will reduce that ratio even further, but I am saying that the signer list can be expanded and more quality artists can contribute because more money will be put into it in line with the increased number made. Who knows, maybe even some of those original big stars and artists might do twice as many cards if they were paid twice as much.

The quantity of autographs and sketches produced by the big stars and artists isn't just a matter of money, especially not for the artists who get paid peanuts for their time and effort. If you follow any of the chatter on Scoundrel and Facebook, you would see that a lot of artists are already being pressed to do more work than they actually have time for. They can't give all of their time and effort to producing high quality sketches for official card sets. Most would be literally starving, homeless artists if they did. At $3-$5 per sketch, they hardly cover the cost of the pens, ink, paint, brushes and whatever never mind paying for luxuries like food and accommodation. Before being asked to do twice as many cards at the same rate, I suspect they'd prefer to be offered double the rate they're currently getting to make the existing work viable. Artists are people not robots

Also that does cover all of the Sketch cards rejected by the studio. I heard Robert kirkland put the kibosh on a ton of sketches because they were to realistic and not in the comic style of the comic book. Leaving Crypto short on a ton of sketches for the comic book release. ( I think the real reason for the large number of allocations).

Also Raven not all of the actors get paid to sign cards. Especially the bigger names. They sign as part of their contract to support the licence but when this happens the number of signatures they sign tend to be limited. (most actors on bigger shows tend to have a deal in their contracts where they got a small small cut of the licence fees.) Not the case back with SMG and Buffy, hence why SMG was so upset all the time (she wasn't getting any of the Buffy merchandising money)

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Originally posted by MrBlueofnyc:

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Originally posted by Kevin F:
At $3-$5 per sketch, they hardly cover the cost of the pens, ink, paint, brushes and whatever never mind paying for luxuries like food and accommodation. Before being asked to do twice as many cards at the same rate, I suspect they'd prefer to be offered double the rate they're currently getting to make the existing work viable. Artists are people not robots

Also that does cover all of the Sketch cards rejected by the studio. I heard Robert kirkland put the kibosh on a ton of sketches because they were to realistic and not in the comic style of the comic book. Leaving Crypto short on a ton of sketches for the comic book release. ( I think the real reason for the large number of allocations).

I have great respect for artists, mostly because I can't draw a lick.

Great stuff, Mr. Blue, I hope you sold all those Hiddleston autographs on Facebook and at SDCC. I know I got mine.

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Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
I know I cried about my 13% allocation on the Walking Dead Comic Series, but that one was an exceptional case.

It's not just CZE as some would like to think. In the last year I've been allocated on Famous Fabrics, Benchwarmer, Topps, Rittenhouse, and CZE. And going back I'm not sure there is a single manufacturer that hasn't allocated me at one time or another. Wait, no allocations from Breygent.

It's just the nature of the business. And it's become a bigger deal lately because of high-profile sets, and yes maybe a little whining from dealers like me.

Pokemon was the ultimate allocater when they were at the height of popularity. They always made just enough to keep people wanting more. That way, every release was a news story in the industry. Good marketing really.

Ed

Wow Ed! I'm really shocked.

I don't order like I use to, but I've only had issues with CZE. Them and UD keep coming up time and time again in threads and talks of negative issues. Refusing customers, allocations, promotions, collation, etc.

And I don't read every thread/post and keep up with products I'm not interested in. Yet, I've rarely have heard complaints about RA.