This word keeps popping up on many of the new threads and I for one am already tired of it.

Certain card manufacturers, you know who they are, have finally put out new and popular titles. But instead of trying to meet demand, they are sitting on their products like a hen on her eggs. They are getting the pre-orders and are reducing the numbers requested or refusing some dealers outright because they don't meet some arbitrary set of rules.

Now no one wants overproduction as that destroys collector value, but underproduction of in-demand titles is just as bad. Since when are manufacturers so concerned about maintaining secondary market prices for collectors that they are stiffling sales? As a collector, would you rather be able to buy cards you like that may not rise in value, or have cards you like rising in value that you can't find or afford?

I can accept high end products for those that want to take the chance, but I won't accept average boxes starting at $100 because the manufacturer is handing them out like pearls. Its a business, make enough boxes/cases to meet demand and quit allocating.

Great post!

I think (hope) over the next couple sets, we'll see production numbers rise in a gradual fashion. 20% here then another 10% next, etc. There's nothing wrong with a company being cautious/conservative of production numbers as they solidify their place in the market. To me it just so happens that their initial releases (for the most part) have been huge successes and there isn't enough to go around.

If it were only that simple. . . product is allocated because orders exceed production, it isn't like manufacturers are just sitting on product.

Making more product sounds like a great idea, but then you have to fill that product with quality stuff otherwise you'll have a bomb on your hands, which is far more detrimental than having a product that skyrockets in price after release.

I actually applaud the companies that don't up their production numbers to make a quick buck. Now if the demand is sustained for set after set and more quality inserts are available then sure slowly increase the production run -- I think that is what is happening. . .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

I agree less is more sometimes! As they say, you can't have everything, where would you put it?

I know I cried about my 13% allocation on the Walking Dead Comic Series, but that one was an exceptional case.

It's not just CZE as some would like to think. In the last year I've been allocated on Famous Fabrics, Benchwarmer, Topps, Rittenhouse, and CZE. And going back I'm not sure there is a single manufacturer that hasn't allocated me at one time or another. Wait, no allocations from Breygent.

It's just the nature of the business. And it's become a bigger deal lately because of high-profile sets, and yes maybe a little whining from dealers like me.

Pokemon was the ultimate allocater when they were at the height of popularity. They always made just enough to keep people wanting more. That way, every release was a news story in the industry. Good marketing really.

Ed

yes, allocation is disappointing when it happens. However, not allocating has two consequences.

First, the alternative is to do lots of filler cards (eg high numbers of auto cards from guests with 3 lines, reduce sketch standards) or reduce the number of hits per box. Ultimately, parts of the product have a supply constraint.

Second, there is a risk that the product will fail. It is very hard to know in advance how much will sell. I would have bet that Warehouse 13 would take over the sales levels of Stargate - same audience and same popularity and more hits. However, Rittenhouse have been cutting the run size each season. If they could sell more, they would. A manufacturer will go broke if they have a couple of bad failures.

I think CZE got a lot of distributors turned off by allocations due to their extending order dates. If they had kept tighter control of when orders were due no one could falt allocations on late orders.

quote:

Originally posted by John Tirohn:
I think CZE got a lot of distributors turned off by allocations due to their extending order dates. If they had kept tighter control of when orders were due no one could falt allocations on late orders.

Problem is as a manufacturer in this industry you cannot just take the first orders that come in the door. One of the bigger, if not the biggest, orders comes from Diamond Comics and they have to get their orders in from stores before they can place their order. They are too big to say no to in the long run.

I don't like allocations, but I sure do understand how they are a necessary evil for a manufacturer.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by John Tirohn:
I think CZE got a lot of distributors turned off by allocations due to their extending order dates. If they had kept tighter control of when orders were due no one could falt allocations on late orders.

Actually, we do this to try and be as fair as we can to as many dealers as possible. For example, if we just went with first come first serve one large distributor would have gotten every box of more than one of our releases. We've also had other big dealers try to buy an entire print run on more than one occasion. Neither of these scenarios are what we, or we think our fans, want.

Currently we are blessed with having the rights to some incredibly hot shows. The upside is that a lot of new blood is taking an interest in trading cards. The downside is that there are limiting factors on how many hobby boxes we can produce. We are increasing production (when we can) on some sets slightly but we're not going to go crazy and compromise the quality.

Thanks.

Scott

A lot of the time,they just seem to sit on a product for while.then it goes dirt cheap??I don't get it!!

This hooby is a nightmare most of the time.I wait a few years after release before I get involved!!

same reason I stopped collecting comics.standing orders not being filled then a week later the same comics were for sale at X 4-10 cover price at the time(now always in the 50p bins)!people will just give up in the end!!!

I have a feeling cards will go the same way???

This message has been edited. Last edited by: simpsonscardman,

I ordered three boxes of The Walking Dead comic boxes from my local comic book store. They were allocated and received no boxes. Result - I am not collecting these.

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
I ordered three boxes of The Walking Dead comic boxes from my local comic book store. They were allocated and received no boxes. Result - I am not collecting these.

5 years down the line.no one will care and prices will go way down and tons of future customers are lost and feel left out!!

I'm just waiting this one out.its like Buffy,Angel,x-files,charmed and all others that come and go!!

Just want to point out something Scott said.

"We've also had other big dealers try to buy an entire print run on more than one occasion."

This is the very reason for allocations.

Also lets do the math. If 1000 boxes are being made but they get orders for 3000 boxes what should they do?

A) Give out the boxes to the first 1000 ordered
B) Spread it out and Allocate the boxes
C) Water down the product to fill the 3000 boxes ordered?

Also do you guys not think the dealers and comic book stores don't allocate you as well.

Say your a dealer you get and orders for 10 boxes from 10 different people and all you get is 4 boxes. Now the dealer has to Allocate as to who he wants to please and who he wants to upset or maybe he keeps them and ebays them instead.

I know a dealer who had to allocate orders for his customers to 1 box each to make sure everyone at least got a box when people ordered cases. He didn't want to do this but he wanted to be as fair as possible.

Point is I guess. Quality product will always be in high demand as long as people thing they can flip them and make a profit. ( Housing bubble anyone or shows call Flip this house ) Just like the housing market trading cards have their bubbles as well.

quote:

Originally posted by simpsonscardman:
5 years down the line.no one will care and prices will go way down and tons of future customers are lost and feel left out!!

I'm just waiting this one out.its like Buffy,Angel,x-files,charmed and all others that come and go!!

I don't understand your comment. If, in 5 years, prices go way down, why will future customers be lost and left out? If that's the case, they'll be happy to get the products on the cheap!

Not sure what exactly you're waiting out. All the products you mentioned still hold their value on the secondary market, meaning boxes aren't really selling for much less than when they came out. Especially stuff like Buffy and Angel - consider yourself lucky to find some of those for under $100!

I think Cryptozoic has a pretty good track record thus far of making quality products that collectors want, and they're not flooding the market which is keeping the value there. As far as the allocation thing goes, I can't speak on that because I'm not a dealer. But as a collector it sucks when you pre-order something only to find out right near release that your dealer/distributor won't be getting enough to fill their orders (been there with Galaxy 6), and if you want to get boxes from another dealer by that time the price is already up 20%.

I can't speak for other Cryptozoic sets, but a few months ago I saw master sets of Smallville on ebay (with all of the autos and costume cards) in the $1800-2000 range plus, and now I have seen some in the $1000-1200 range

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
I can't speak for other Cryptozoic sets, but a few months ago I saw master sets of Smallville on ebay (with all of the autos and costume cards) in the $1800-2000 range plus, and now I have seen some in the $1000-1200 range

I bought season 1 and 2 master sets for €350.if ya prepared to wait there are bargains to be had??

As for Buffy and Angel.only a few 'high end' autos and a couple of costume cards have retained their value.mostly everything else are cheap as chips

quote:

Originally posted by simpsonscardman:

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
I can't speak for other Cryptozoic sets, but a few months ago I saw master sets of Smallville on ebay (with all of the autos and costume cards) in the $1800-2000 range plus, and now I have seen some in the $1000-1200 range

I bought season 1 and 2 master sets for €350.if ya prepared to wait there are bargains to be had??

As for Buffy and Angel.only a few 'high end' autos and a couple of costume cards have retained their value.mostly everything else are cheap as chips

Season 1 and 2 of Smallville were not put out by Cryptozoic.

And your Buffy / Angel reasoning can be said about any set - popular cards within the set will usually remain popular - which means bargains will likely not be found on cards that are $100+, even if you wait a while. It's very rare for those to ever come down.

I think its great that we have manufacturers and dealers, as well as collectors, weighing in on this subject. There are many sides to every issue and its important to get different views out in the open. Sometimes it might even change a few people's minds.

It is absolutely true that card manufacturers have always allocated product for the very reasons stated. You can't have two or three large distributors cornering the market on a hot title while the rest of your network is left to go begging. I think everyone understands the wisdom of that, and that is not the kind of allocating I was talking about.

I am talking about having to allocate product because not enough was made from the get go and it is sold out even before release or shortly thereafter. While this may seem like a wonderful thing for a card manufacturer, and to be sure you want to be more conservative rather than get stuck with inventory that doesn't move, underproduction also results in lost revenue for the company and higher prices for the collector who is probably buying through a middleman that will be adjusting cost based on supply and demand.

The theory has been expressed that if you make more product it has to be watered down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would only be true if a manufacturer tried to increase production late in the game. You can't change 3000 boxes into 4000 boxes overnight if you only have enough autos, sketches or whatever hits for the 3000 originally planned. But if you're planning to produce the 4000 then you would have enough to meet whatever the number of hits guaranteed per box. The product would require a bigger investment, but you would take in even more money in line with the expected profit margin when it sells out, as it still should do when the demand is there.

I guess all I'm saying is that popular titles shouldn't be short printed to the point that box prices are marked up as soon as they come out and average collectors have to do a "Sophie's Choice" among old and new favorites.

It's a hot property, so there will be those who want to make a quick and easy buck.

I don't like it either, but the only way to counter it is to pass on the product. I'm not about to do that, and I'm sure there are lots of other collectors who won't either.

So we'll just have to cope with getting less than what we want of it, and perhaps in the process something else will suffer. In my case I am holding off on some other pieces of cardboard I wanted, and maybe not getting a new transmission just yet for my hot-rod.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

The theory has been expressed that if you make more product it has to be watered down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would only be true if a manufacturer tried to increase production late in the game. You can't change 3000 boxes into 4000 boxes overnight if you only have enough autos, sketches or whatever hits for the 3000 originally planned. But if you're planning to produce the 4000 then you would have enough to meet whatever the number of hits guaranteed per box. The product would require a bigger investment, but you would take in even more money in line with the expected profit margin when it sells out, as it still should do when the demand is there.

Say you are doing 2 autos per box. If you change from planned 3000 boxes to 4000, that means an extra 2000 autos. Given the rarity of main cast autos now, I am assuming that the most likely people to sign those additional autos are the minor guest stars. Similarly, if it's a sketch oriented product, the 10 artists who have the spare time to do an additional 100 sketches each are not going to be the fan favourite ones. Hence my comment that increasing production runs is likely to reduce quality.