quote:

Originally posted by drofdarb:
I actually have the entire TOS autograph set in a folder somewhere, must be worth a few bob now.

Nice. I think pretty much all of the main cast has signed elsewhere since (I have most of them in my Twilight Zone set), but the TOS set from Skybox will always be the best. The pair of DeForest Kelley cards from that set are certainly the keys, since he never signed any other cards.

To me Star Trek TOS and Twilight Zone are the two best sets in non-sport. That's from the point of view of an autograph collector. I've thought many times about trying to put the full run of autographs from Star Trek TOS together (in the classic design only), but I've never been able to start digging in and really do it. And now the cut signature cards have really hurt my willingness to try. With my collecting OCD I consider them part of the autograph set, though I fully understand that most other collectors do not. And the price of some of those cuts would be too high for me, especially the Jeffrey Hunter card, which rarely comes up for sale to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
BTW, I think someone just bought the unsigned LLAP card for $500. Don't get me started on blank autograph cards, but congrats to Ted.

Actually sold for $250. Could I have gotten more? I really don't know. But that was a fantastic offer that at the moment I just couldn't pass up.

I am curious, though... is that the highest amount for a non-autographed Star Trek card? Maybe Promoking can get me in touch with the Guinness pople?

I bought a Yvonne Craig/ William Shatner Unreleased card from a seller that was signed by Yvonne Craig. He bought it at an estate sale after Yvonne passed away. I sold it for $300 or so. Afterwards , I found out that Yvonne hadn't sent the cards into RA so they won't ever get released.

If I'd know that, It would've been 3k.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
I am curious, though... is that the highest amount for a non-autographed Star Trek card?

Lots of room in that question for different views to hold merit. The simply answer would be yes, if you are just talking about basic cards, but should you count other non-autographed hits, like a sketch card? Then maybe not.

Do you count the LLAP card as a regular Star Trek issue when it was never released in a ST set? It's a licensed RA card, but it came from Nimoy directly, not RA.

And then it was made to be signed and this one was left blank. Many people would receive that and want to send it back as a mistake not worth the money spent on the tee shirt. Apparently some did send them back on the earlier pages of this thread. So it might be better to compare the price to other unsigned autograph cards that managed to make it out, by hook or by crook as they say. Known unsigned autograph cards like Halle Berry for Catwoman and X-Men might go for more. And then there are unredeemed redemption cards like Elizabeth Allen in Twilight Zone that did go for more.

I view unsigned autograph cards and expired redemption cards as being in their own non-traditional market. For some collectors it just has to do with the novelty of having something rare, even if it's really incomplete or simply not useable anymore. It's their logic and their money.

Astonishing to see how much these are going for 8 years later.
That said, I do think the one his granddaughter sold on her website is an anomaly that will temporarily skew the market upwards. Official RA Nimoy Trek autos are not exactly hard to come by and can be had for A LOT less, including these LLAP cards.

I’d imagine the buyer of that particular card, from that particular platform, was likely not familiar the non-sport Nimoy/Trek market or the normal ‘going rate’, or approx. quantities made of this card.

Still, I really do think the LLAP card is the best looking Trek card Nimoy signed and it was a great gesture that he made them available to his fans.

I had the fine blue sharpie version (which I moved long ago), but still have the black marker version. As a Trek fan I am not sure I could ever part with it given how integral Nimoy was the the legacy of the show.

quote:

Originally posted by Kryten67:

I bought a Yvonne Craig/ William Shatner Unreleased card from a seller that was signed by Yvonne Craig. He bought it at an estate sale after Yvonne passed away. I sold it for $300 or so. Afterwards , I found out that Yvonne hadn't sent the cards into RA so they won't ever get released.

If I'd know that, It would've been 3k.

There very well could be a box of 100 more of those sitting somewhere waiting to be discovered.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:

quote:

Originally posted by Kryten67:

I bought a Yvonne Craig/ William Shatner Unreleased card from a seller that was signed by Yvonne Craig. He bought it at an estate sale after Yvonne passed away. I sold it for $300 or so. Afterwards , I found out that Yvonne hadn't sent the cards into RA so they won't ever get released.

If I'd know that, It would've been 3k.

There very well could be a box of 100 more of those sitting somewhere waiting to be discovered.

Not only that, those cards are still probably the property of RA. Unlike the Nimoy LLAP card, which was given to him for his own use, that Craig/Shatner card was supposed to have been autographed and returned to RA, if the story is accurate. That means it belongs to them, signed or not, absent some specific agreement being made that was not mentioned.

If it showed up for sale in any sort of numbers or prices, RA has the copyright and might want an explanation from either the sellers or Craig's Estate as to why someone else is profiting off of their cards.

BTW for Star Trek card collectors, RA has released at least a few dual autographs numbered from DA1 - DA 37 in each of the sets starting with the 2011 Remastered TOS.

The only unreleased DA number missing from the sequence is DA4. I never read what happened to it or who was supposed to be on it.

I have never seen the Halle Berry card sell - just have seen it available for a couple of hundred bucks and go unsold.

Yeah, there are some oddball cards out there: unsigned autographs, unreleased autograph cards, expired redemptions, etc. Part of it is the novelty of wanting something rare but part of it is also thinking you've completed a favorite set (whether a master set or a set with all the hits you wanted) and finding out years later there's another card out there even if it's just a promo without a serial-number or an unreleased non-foil version of a chase card that had foil in the packs. Suddenly, you have something new to chase for that set.

I consider an unsigned autograph like an "unfinished prototype." It's a sample version usually not released, because as you said, it's incomplete, awaiting at least one more intended step before being ready for distribution. I can only assume that across the printing process there are always some leftovers or cards pulled and inspected along the way but they're almost always thrown away.

However, Skybox gave employees American Vintage Motorcycle Series 2 cards that had finished foil fronts but otherwise blank backs stamped "Unfinished Skybox Prototype." Comic Images sent out some unsigned autograph cards as samples to dealers.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
I am curious, though... is that the highest amount for a non-autographed Star Trek card?

Do you count the LLAP card as a regular Star Trek issue when it was never released in a ST set? It's a licensed RA card, but it came from Nimoy directly, not RA.

And then it was made to be signed and this one was left blank. Many people would receive that and want to send it back as a mistake not worth the money spent on the tee shirt. Apparently some did send them back on the earlier pages of this thread. So it might be better to compare the price to other unsigned autograph cards that managed to make it out, by hook or by crook as they say. Known unsigned autograph cards like Halle Berry for Catwoman and X-Men might go for more. And then there are unredeemed redemption cards like Elizabeth Allen in Twilight Zone that did go for more.

I view unsigned autograph cards and expired redemption cards as being in their own non-traditional market. For some collectors it just has to do with the novelty of having something rare, even if it's really incomplete or simply not useable anymore. It's their logic and their money.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I have never seen the Halle Berry card sell - just have seen it available for a couple of hundred bucks and go unsold.

I bought one many years ago. Less than $100, though.

Someone picked up a LLAP card on eBay last Night for $228.03. BIN may take time to move but Auctions are NOT the way to go on this Autograph card.

eBay item number:133326998049

P.s. It also helps if you know what you're selling.

it was listed as 2010 Star Trek Remastered Original Series Leonard Nimoy AUTO Autograph SPOCK

Nimoy's autograph card price has really tailed off since his death, which seems an opposite effect, but its because his signed cards keep on coming out. He has better cards to be sure, but if you are content with just finding any of his Star Trek autographs you can probably pick one up between $150 - $175.

Same thing has happened with Koenig, Takei and Nichols. They were never comparable to Nimoy and Shatner, but were up to $100 for most autograph cards at one point. Now their newer signed cards are going for well under $50, which is also undercutting prior higher valued cards.

One of the reasons why autograph cards in general were holding their values was because they were getting support from the whole checklist. By that I mean, collectors were trying to complete products, so there was a need for every signed card, even those that were commons. The rarity barometer meant something in relation to the checklist. Now commons are just bottoming out and most of the good middle range cards have also dropped.

Today there are very few products from major titles that can even be attempted as master sets. So common autographs are not needed and more collectors are picking and choosing their wanted single certified autograph cards based on best price, not best card. I have done that for years and years, but the hobby has now adapted it as best practice because there are so many options that there is a glut, even though all are individually made in smaller numbers.

So for something like this LLAP card, which was not produced as part of a set, it becomes tricky. The autograph is decreasing in value, so you are buying with the idea that the card is rare. But is this card better than a VL or EL from RA that you can now find for under $200? I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of the Nimoy autograph stockpile.

quote:

Originally posted by Kryten67:
Someone picked up a LLAP card on eBay last Night for $228.03. BIN may take time to move but Auctions are NOT the way to go on this Autograph card.

eBay item number:133326998049

P.s. It also helps if you know what you're selling.

it was listed as 2010 Star Trek Remastered Original Series Leonard Nimoy AUTO Autograph SPOCK

I've had little to no interest in mine since I listed it, but I don't mind keeping it if it never sells!

The only offers I've received are laughable (yes, sub-$100), or someone asking what's the lowest I'll go (I hate when people do that). "Make offer" means just that.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
I've had little to no interest in mine since I listed it, but I don't mind keeping it if it never sells!

The only offers I've received are laughable (yes, sub-$100), or someone asking what's the lowest I'll go (I hate when people do that). "Make offer" means just that.

I come from a long line of hagglers, but I myself never learned the art. I find it embarrassing to try and guess what price I should offer for something. I actually prefer it when prices are non-negotiable, because when someone is allowed to haggle, I am always going to wind up paying more than a low baller who will get the same thing.

I like BINS, but Not Best Offers. Often times its extremes that win. The seller either will not entertain even $10 off BIN, so I'm wasting my time and he/she doesn't even bother to answer me, or it goes off for an offer that I would have easily beaten had I known the seller would entertain it. I lose it or I pay too much, so I have stopped offering anything.

If you have put on Best Offer, what's wrong with telling a serious buyer what your minimum price would be, if you really want to get rid of it? Or else just leave at BIN and no inquiries have to be answered.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

If you have put on Best Offer, what's wrong with telling a serious buyer what your minimum price would be, if you really want to get rid of it? Or else just leave at BIN and no inquiries have to be answered.

In my experience a serious buyer doesn't ask what the minimum price would be -- they make a serious offer.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

If you have put on Best Offer, what's wrong with telling a serious buyer what your minimum price would be, if you really want to get rid of it? Or else just leave at BIN and no inquiries have to be answered.

In my experience a serious buyer doesn't ask what the minimum price would be -- they make a serious offer.

In my experience, a serious seller doesn't need Best Offer. They can take their chances with an auction or lay down a reasonable BIN.

Best Offers seem to appear on items that are intentionally overpriced, or when the seller doesn't know what he/she should be pricing it for, or when he/she doesn't really care if it sells, but will do it if they can hook a whale.

If sellers want to add Best Offers that's up to them, but then they should be willing to respond to each offer, not leaving the potential buyers just hanging, and be prepared to accept a reasonable offer that comes in lower than their expectation. If not, the seller is the one playing games.

I go for BINs that look good to me or the occasional auction, if its something that is hard to find or is just for fun and I don't mind losing. I don't make Best Offers anymore and when I see them on an item I generally dismiss that seller and look for another one.

I was just trying to answer your question, not step in to a debate.

As a buyer, I like Best Offers. In many cases the item is already in the range I think it should be so the Best Offer is an automatic discount off that. Why not ask for something in the range of 20% if the seller is willing to haggle? You can get resistance at asking 30%. I've done that, and one time, the seller said he couldn't do it and counter-offered at around 20%. I declined that, and a day later, the seller said he would give me the 30% off. It was an item that he'd had for sale for at least a year with no takers, and apparently no offers as good as mine.

That's a case of watching certain items that you've noticed haven't sold for a while. Yes, sometimes sellers are just seeing what they can get because they don't know the market and don't want to put in any time researching that. When you see an item that is clearly overpriced and has had a BIN and BO for months, that's when you might ask for 40% if you think that puts it in the realistic value range. Otherwise, a seller might take that as an insult.

The reason why sellers don't like to give you their minimum is because many buyers will then push for a price less than that once they get that number.

Hey Raven, I passed 1000 posts last week. What did I win?

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
I've had little to no interest in mine since I listed it, but I don't mind keeping it if it never sells!

The only offers I've received are laughable (yes, sub-$100), or someone asking what's the lowest I'll go (I hate when people do that). "Make offer" means just that.

I come from a long line of hagglers, but I myself never learned the art. I find it embarrassing to try and guess what price I should offer for something. I actually prefer it when prices are non-negotiable, because when someone is allowed to haggle, I am always going to wind up paying more than a low baller who will get the same thing.

I like BINS, but Not Best Offers. Often times its extremes that win. The seller either will not entertain even $10 off BIN, so I'm wasting my time and he/she doesn't even bother to answer me, or it goes off for an offer that I would have easily beaten had I known the seller would entertain it. I lose it or I pay too much, so I have stopped offering anything.

If you have put on Best Offer, what's wrong with telling a serious buyer what your minimum price would be, if you really want to get rid of it? Or else just leave at BIN and no inquiries have to be answered.

quote:

Originally posted by Kryten67:
Someone picked up a LLAP card on eBay last Night for $228.03. BIN may take time to move but Auctions are NOT the way to go on this Autograph card.

eBay item number:133326998049

P.s. It also helps if you know what you're selling.

it was listed as 2010 Star Trek Remastered Original Series Leonard Nimoy AUTO Autograph SPOCK

And it was not visible on some international sites (e.g. eBay UK).

Great buy for someone though. I think the LLAP is Nimoy’s best looking auto card.

I have always liked Best Offer as both a buyer and occasional seller.

As a buyer I only have a problem with it if you’re dealing with one of those sellers who will only take offers of $95+ for a $100 card. Just list the thing for $95.
Otherwise, if the seller is happy to work in the ‘reasonable’ 10-30% discount range to move their stock, it has incentivised me to make purchases.

I have also found best offers represent an easy start to conversations about discounting more for multiple purchases and heavier spending. When I sold a few on my decent Bond autos I no longer needed, an Australian collector came across my listings, was looking to plug some rare gaps and went on a bit of spree, so I was a bit looser in accepting his offers because he would buy more. The door swings both ways.

Also, we all know how prone to fluctuation selling prices are on eBay and it can be tricky to gauge ‘worth’ because it depends WHO is looking and WHEN. Best Offer can be a good middle ground.

Take this Nimoy LLAP auto, a $100-$200 card all day long when it came out. Crept up a bit over a couple of years and a few random sales in the $500-$700 range in the more recent past now they’ve dried up. Quite recently, Nimoy’s granddaughter sold her last one on her website for $1500 so now some sellers hover in the $1000 ballpark. So what’s it worth?

Personally, I think $1k is way too much for a card of which a few hundred were produced (300 approx?), particularly given Nimoy has so many other Trek auto cards. But if I were selling, I’d be a fool to ignore the potential demand from Nimoy/Trek fans given recent sales and I’d list it high too. It’s a great card with a great story behind it. Nimoy is/was Star Trek.

But if it sat for a good old while, or the buyers just weren’t there at that particular time, then why not take a couple hundred off via best offer? But because I would happily sell for ‘x’ on the lowest end doesn’t mean that’s the preferred amount every day of the week. A seller might be more/less motivated to sell on any given day for many reasons. A reasonable seller works with reasonable buyers but isn’t stupid enough to ‘leave money on the table.’

Some of the statements and presumptions about BIN listings, and the sellers who use them, voiced in this thread seem a bit shortsighted and incredibly narrow minded. Every buyer and seller is different.