quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I think Raven has been waiting for a dissenting opinion regarding whether uncut sheets are somehow separate from "pulled cards" because they weren't inserted in packs. Uncut sheets are the sum of the cards - the original form from which the cards have been separated. To me, that's like saying a skeleton is separate from the component bones and teeth because it wouldn't fit in a smaller type of container in which any of the skeletal elements would fit.

I've never thought of my collection having an "organizational flow" because it's still somewhat unorganized.

Also, all cards could be considered "printing press relics."

Whether something is playable or pack-inserted does not always determine whether it's part of the set. The boomerang from the Simpsons Down Under set could be considered part of the set even if it comes in its own large custom frame (and it did) which is way too big to fit in a pack.

Is Raven laughing yet?

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
If that sample Bartarang card can go for $1800, what does that say about the rarity. At different times in the past, I heard someone say that about 100 of those sample sets were distributed. Another source thought around 200 existed. I'm beginning to think it's more like 100 or perhaps fewer based on how few have been for sale during the card's slow but rather steady increase in value over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by Billyd2:
Nice summary chesspieceface, very accurate. Just to be clear, I'm of the belief that ANY "sample" Bartarang cards origin began by it's removed from a sheet. I know of no other way to get one. Whether there are 50 or possibly 100 (as chesspieceface mentioned - 50 front and 50 back) I don't know. I always thought there were only 50 Samples total.

quote:

Originally posted by Billyd2:
I think I'm going to list it on eBay to see if any buzz will happen at a "Make me sell it" price.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I think Raven has been waiting for a dissenting opinion regarding whether uncut sheets are somehow separate from "pulled cards" because they weren't inserted in packs. Uncut sheets are the sum of the cards - the original form from which the cards have been separated. To me, that's like saying a skeleton is separate from the component bones and teeth because it wouldn't fit in a smaller type of container in which any of the skeletal elements would fit.

Is Raven laughing yet?

Rolling on the floor. Yes, I sit around, rubbing my hands and waiting to pounce on some poor soul with a "dissenting opinion". Or at least that's the mental image I get.

Actually, I do like to talk to knowledgeable card collectors who have opposite ideas from mine because that's how you learn things you don't know or see things from a different angle. The only time an opinion can really be deemed wrong is if it's based on something that is factually wrong or is extended beyond the point where the facts would reasonably apply. And that's just my opinion.

To this subject, I was never a master set builder. Not even back in the days when it could be done, but there was always the debate of exactly what a "master set" meant. To be totally accurate, I think you have to say everything. Everything on the checklist, everything in packs, everything not in packs, everything you could order or win that had an official licensed manufacturer's tie-in to the set. Sell sheets, promos, samples, uncut sheets if they were made available, binders, variant cards, error cards, corrected cards, insert cards, parallel cards, numbered cards, archive box exclusive cards, every hit of any type inserted or redeemable, the redemption card cancelled and expired, and if I missed anything just add it in.

Now of course how far master set collectors wanted to take this was up to them, their finances, and the sheer ability to find some very limited components. Some thought you also needed to keep a sealed box. Or an empty box and open pack wrapper. There was no end to what some thought they should keep until sketch card hits became common in various products and master set collectors went nuts trying to get one of every licensed artist. Eventually someone decided it was OK to have just one sketch from anyone on the checklist, but the dam had burst. The 1/1 cards were here.

The 1/1, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25 cards, they all effectively ended the master sets on mainstream popular titles. It was not just that average collectors couldn't afford them, they are too limited to find. You are always going to have those holes in your collection and master set collectors hated holes. They lost all purpose when they knew they couldn't get it all, no matter how long they looked. I personally knew several people who collected every set on certain big franchise titles for 10 years or more, not masters but close to it, and they just stopped when there was too much they couldn't complete because of short printed cards and all the exclusives.

So thanks for the opportunity to get that off my chest Jess. And thanks to chesspieceface for that detailed breakdown of a product that I did know about. Sounds like you do indeed have a master, maybe the only one to that extent.