quote:

Originally posted by David R:

dealers who make their exclusive promo available for a SASE or for a few bucks, or who throw the promo in with a purchase of a small product, ARE making the hobby a more enjoyable place, to use your words.

You are correct.

It’s the nature of Human’s to complain not mater what the circumstances. If you print 100 different promos or one, someone will complain. Print what you want, distribute them anyway you want and everyone ones opinion be dam, including mine. I was never here.

David,
I believe you are missing the point here. You collect promos. Tom makes trading cards for collectors to purchase. You depend on Tom and other manufacturers to supply your hobby with promos to collect whether they are common or limited. If Apple is selling a product and giving away a promo as an incentive, then there is nothing wrong with that. The reason you find fault with it is because you do not support the manufacturers by purchasing their products. You collect, trade and buy promos that the manufacturers give away. They do not make money when you buy promos. Only the possessor of the promos makes money. It is not the same thing.

I personally own every Breygent promo to date. I’ve enjoyed the subject matter and quality of the cards produced by this company. I personally want to thank Breygent for producing a fine product and hope to be adding Breygent Promos to my collection for years to come. Big thanks to Tom for putting in the time and effort, it’s made my collection that much better, John

Applesause!

I don't think anyone is doubting Tom's contribution to the hobby, his innovation or the quality of his sets. These are all first class.

I would not question that Applecards desire incentives for buying large amounts of Breygent product and supporting their lines.

They are free of course to offer these incentives as they like.

The only problem here is they are exclusive incentives and they are the only supplier of these promo cards. They have an unfair advantage over every other seller. This can not be good for other sellers as they will realistically be looking at losing business because of it, out of no fault of their own.

These are different to show distributed promos that are either available from multiples sellers or available "free" / for a small purchase.

Isn’t that called business, Bigger companies have a advantage over smaller companies in every area of business, weather you sell cards or cars. That’s a fact of life. I’m tired of reading people crying over a 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 piece of paper like a bunch of children. with what's going on in the world today you'd think people would have bigger things to worry about. That's my last comment on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by John Oder:
Isn’t that called business, Bigger companies have a advantage over smaller companies in every area of business, weather you sell cards or cars. That’s a fact of life. I’m tired of reading people crying over a 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 piece of paper like a bunch of children. with what's going on in the world today you'd think people would have bigger things to worry about. That's my last comment on this subject.

You are 100% correct.
Tom has every right in the world to do what he pleases with his company.
If he wishes to reward a good buyer with something that no one else gets, so be it for him to do so.
He owes no one any explanation or compasion.

On the flip side, it is also fair to say that other customers of Breygent have the right to be upset that someone else was given something to help them either sell product or make extra money that they didn't get. They can then, in turn, decide to either not purchase from Breygent or continue to do so knowing that they are not as important as certain other customers of Breygent and will most likely fall into this unlevel playing field several times again in the future. If they do decide to continue buying from Breygent, they will also have to deal with the possibility that their customers will no longer purchase from them in favor of buying from the dealer that is given the special incentive.
It's a thin line to walk- Breygent wanting to reward a good customer but maybe hurting their relationship with their other customers or not caving to the wishes of a large customer in order to keep a level playing field and maybe pissing off that large customer and losing him.
Where is the middle ground? I do not know.
They keep having sell outs, so I assume people are still happy enough to buy- or maybe it is that large dealer taking 50-60% of the product which would make a sell out pretty easy.
All I know is that for me, I am not happy about exclusive promos given to ONE person who does not answer e-mails and does not seem to be willing to help collectors obtain the card unless they willing to buy 3 boxes from them or bid on an Ebay auction of theirs.
I might be in the minority on this, but it doesn't sit right with me and I can spend my hard earned dollars on the items I want to spend it on. Any title that has a card given to ONE person will not be a title I spend money on.

Will Dexter 5&6 have a card given to ONE person? If it does, I might as well double up on Trek TNG Heroes & Villains.

There seems to be an underlying issue here. This is not about one promo. I see this with the last comment dobo made in his last post:

"Will Dexter 5&6 have a card given to ONE person? If it does, I might as well double up on Trek TNG Heroes & Villains."

Was that really necessary? All this because you didn't get one single promo... yet?
]
Would you feel bad if tomorrow you picked one up and all this was for nothing? I am really surprised that there is this much controversy over one card. Apple got 500 Grimm promos. Don't you think if you have some patience they will start to show up and you will all eventually get one? Tom makes thousands of promos every year and I do not see people going out of their way to praise him for that. What if Tom stopped making promos? Compared to the 50 or more that he makes every year to the 5 or 6 that the other companies make, there would be a lot less to collect whether you are a non-sport card collector or a promo card collector.

Breygent owes nobody an explanation. This was simply a business decision. He didn't do anything wrong. You might have to pay to get one just like you would pay for an incentive or autograph. Yes, one entity has control of the Grimm promos and no Tom did not envision them selling like this. I am sure Tom has seen what everyone has said and how they feel. Only a handful of collectors seem to have issue with this so far. Your voice has been heard and you have a choice to buy or not to buy. Because he made this deal with Apple, you are killing him without thinking of all the good things done in the past. This topic has gone past the point of no return. It seems to be just a complaint driven board bashing a manufacturer who does a lot for this hobby. Let's move on and see what happens in the future.

For those of you who are completists, I can understand your frustration. I waited 19 years (yes, I said years)to find the AMP America's Major Players Desert Storm promos. I didn't complain and I never quit. That was a great day for me. I kept up the hunt and finally was rewarded with one of only 2 sets known to exist on the planet. That what collecting is all about, the chase to find cards you need to complete your set. The fun in searching out and finding elusive cards promos or chase, autos or props whether you trade for them or make a purchase. Give it some time. The cards will show up and everyone who wants one will eventually get one. It would be a sad day if Breygent turned around and never made another promo again. Now, do you stop buying all of their products because they don't make promos anymore? That would make no sense at all. With all of the controversy over this, I can see Breygent simply saying, being we can't please everyone, let's not make any more promos.


In all my years as a card collector, the promo card has very rarely swayed my decision in collecting a specific title. And actually, neither has the content of the release. I am realistic in knowing that will be some cards that I will never be able to own. That's OK. I have many card sets in my collection that are missing promos and chase or even single cards but I don't get upset about it. I am not dead yet so I keep on searching and eventually all comes to those who wait patiently. That is what makes this hobby fun. I am leaving you all with this last thought and then I am done with this topic.

You get more with honey than you do with vinegar. Peace out...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: beamer,

Agree with Beamer on this - we have another thread praising Breygent. It is only a promo, if there are 500 of them they will start appearing for less later. I am sure Tom has expressed his displeasure to Applecards but everyone get real it is only a card. There are plenty of cards I would like but haven't got and this might be another

Don't you think we've said just about everything there is to say on this? I appreciate that no one has made this personal but it's starting to get a bit out of hand now, in my opinion. Maybe we ought to celebrate the holiday today and show our independence from this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by H_Toser:
Don't you think we've said just about everything there is to say on this? I appreciate that no one has made this personal but it's starting to get a bit out of hand now, in my opinion. Maybe we ought to celebrate the holiday today and show our independence from this thread.

Harris, hope you don't mind, but I needed to say a few words. I have been following this thread for days now and have my emotional ups and downs with the postings, but could not properly respond on CT because of my crazy schedule.

Bottom line in my mind is that there are 500 of each of these cards. THE PRICE WILL COME DOWN. It might take a year or 2, but it will. With 500 cards of each title available, it will be a $5 or less card at some point, especially if the topic matter does not remain popular.

Tom Breyer is doing what he thinks collectors want. Once he gives the cards to a venue such as Philly show, Chicago, or to dealers such as Applecards, etc, he has very little input to what happens with the cards. It is not his fault Apple is doing what it is doing, nor that the cards are selling for so much. Cards with a lot less quantity made are not even selling for that. Look at the Red Robin promos from Philly. 99 printed, and only in the 40's distributed. Using $50 for 500 quantity, these Red Robin promos should be selling for hundreds each. In reality they are not.

Tom has been very supportive of the collecting and dealer community. Sure, he makes mistakes, and one can only hope that he learns from those mistakes and changes things the next time. Tom is running a business and one of his very good customers wanted some exclusive promos, and Tom obliged him. Good business.

Thank you Tom for your generosity and for continuing to support the community. Keep making promos please. I am afraid you will throw in the towel on making them if these postings continue!

Happy 4th of July everyone, and sorry for not obliging Harris's wish on no more postings on this matter.

Mike.

I too am sorry Harris, but I must say something.

I have had plenty of issues with Card Talk in the past and have vowed never to post again. I don't even read the posts that often.

After reading this thread though, I must say something now though.

I have been in the sports and non-sports trading card business and have known Tom, Tom Jr, Mike and Warren for over 25 years now. I consider them family. And like it is with family, we agrue and have disagreements at times- but we always end up figuring it out.

I have supported Breygent to the best of my ability since its inception. And for whatever I was able to purchase, Tom has always been appreciative and supportive with anything he could. Not that I got one person exclusives, but he has been more than fair to me in every way. For that, I thank him.

If he found it business wise/necessary/what ever to provide this dealer with exclusive promos, then it is his every right to do so. Just as it is this dealers every right to do whatever they want with the cards.

I think what the issue here is, is that the person who got the cards is not quite willing to help collectors get them for what many would consider a "reasonable" amount. To make people from the US buy from him in the UK and spend more money on shipping- or to buy them from auctions that are usually ending in the $50-$100 range- is not possible for many who have already promised their regular US dealer an order or who cannot shell out $50-$100 for a card that everyone agrees will finally wind up in the $5-$10 range at some point in the future- there are always variables with this though- like if the person just sits on them or they are lost or damaged some how.

I think we need to thank Tom and everyone at Breygent for what they have done for the hobby and for giving us many wonderful cards.

We will all eventually get the cards we want, we just have to wait a bit. Even one dealer exclusives given to maybe not the best and friendliest of people will eventually be avail at reasonable prices- after all, there are 500 of them.

Thanks Tom, Tom Jr, Mike and Warren. We do appreciate you.

Mike.

Yeah, like a few people said, this is like beating a dead horse. I've not even bothered ready any of the long one that have been posted since yesterday afternoon and not going to. Today is my dads 90th birthday. Too many important things to do today. But I do want to take the time to say what was on my mind about this thread yesterday.

How did we go from complaining about the price of a promo card and blaming the dealer that is selling it in addition to it being an incentive to blaming Tom, to blaming card manufacturers in general, to a debate of to little or to many promos.

AGAIN, THE BOTTOM LINE, THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT IS THE PRICE. AND THE BIDDERS/COLLECTORS/US ARE TO BLAME. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BID/COLLECT. DON'T GRIPE ABOUT IT. IF YOU REALLY, TRULY WANT THE CARD IT'S OUT THERE. I'M NOT WILLING TO SACRIFICE MY HARD EARNED MONEY FOR IT. OTHERS AREN'T WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEIR LOYALTY TO THEIR DEALER. AND THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOBBY OR TOM.

I've stopped before and the world and my life didn't end.

Strange things a happening......

Hot thread dead for 4 days...
No Applecards on ebay...
A US seller with them for a week or so...

Hate to speculate on all of this, but we might have cut our own throats with all the greed and crying.

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:
Strange things a happening......

Hot thread dead for 4 days...
No Applecards on ebay...
A US seller with them for a week or so...

Hate to speculate on all of this, but we might have cut our own throats with all the greed and crying.

I assume no one posted in response to what Harris said.
Who is the US dealer with the Applecards promos?

quote:

Originally posted by dobo98985:
I assume no one posted in response to what Harris said.

Yes, I was hoping that too.

Please, let's not have this spiral out of control. Is there really more that can be added here? Also, I'm not looking for an answer on that.

Sorry I just spent the evening with John!

quote:

Originally posted by dobo98985:

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:
Strange things a happening......

Hot thread dead for 4 days...
No Applecards on ebay...
A US seller with them for a week or so...

Hate to speculate on all of this, but we might have cut our own throats with all the greed and crying.

I assume no one posted in response to what Harris said.
Who is the US dealer with the Applecards promos?

Check closed auctions. His listings seem a little odd to me. He did not get them from Tom.