quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:

Are you saying I'm not caring and generous? Tom gave me exclusive convention promos. I worked my *** of handing these out so flippers wouldn't get their hands on them. Posted in several locations here and other forums where to get them, which included some artist tables at the show. I offered them her, if I recall. I've traded some off. I threw some in as extras when trading. Tom told me I could do what I want with them. I could have sold ever last one on ebay, and no one would have been the wiser. Again, it's not Tom's fault. It's equally divided between Applecards and us collectors.

I get the chance to meet the guy that plays Nick in September. If Monroe gets announce for the show, I absolutely will need one before then for signing.

I wasn't talking about you Tattoox.
I know plenty of dealers that got Tom's promos were very happy to give them out free of charge.
You, Cubby (Mike Goldblatt) and Scifi (Ed Webb). Cubby even offered them on Card Talk not too long ago.

I was more making a reference to Applecards without mentioning them directly. I shouldn't have done that as I see how it might have made others look bad when it isn't the case. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:


Are you saying I'm not caring and generous? Tom gave me exclusive convention promos. I worked my *** of handing these out so flippers wouldn't get their hands on them. Posted in several locations here and other forums where to get them, which included some artist tables at the show. I offered them her, if I recall. I've traded some off. I threw some in as extras when trading. Tom told me I could do what I want with them. I could have sold ever last one on ebay, and no one would have been the wiser. Again, it's not Tom's fault. It's equally divided between Applecards and us collectors.

I get the chance to meet the guy that plays Nick in September. If Monroe gets announce for the show, I absolutely will need one before then for signing.

Tattoox- Which convention promos were you given to hand out? Just want to make sure I have it/them.

I do have the Rittenhouse SDCC promos. My dealer was able to get them for me. I don't think he goes to the show, so he must have gotten them some other way.

quote:

Originally posted by dobo98985:

quote:

Originally posted by Tattoox:


Are you saying I'm not caring and generous? Tom gave me exclusive convention promos. I worked my *** of handing these out so flippers wouldn't get their hands on them. Posted in several locations here and other forums where to get them, which included some artist tables at the show. I offered them her, if I recall. I've traded some off. I threw some in as extras when trading. Tom told me I could do what I want with them. I could have sold ever last one on ebay, and no one would have been the wiser. Again, it's not Tom's fault. It's equally divided between Applecards and us collectors.

I get the chance to meet the guy that plays Nick in September. If Monroe gets announce for the show, I absolutely will need one before then for signing.

Tattoox- Which convention promos were you given to hand out? Just want to make sure I have it/them.

I do have the Rittenhouse SDCC promos. My dealer was able to get them for me. I don't think he goes to the show, so he must have gotten them some other way.

Please see my trade list I just posted. Also, I may have an ECCC X-Men Archives available.

quote:

but I had extra space on the printing form and used it up figuring I would make some collectors and dealers very happy.

tom

Tom...That space could have been used for a single case topper card...that would at least make single case purchasers of your products happy...Not an incentive starting at three cases !

Possible for future releases maybe !

The sad part of the whole promo/incentive issue is that Tom tries so hard to do the right thing for all of us collectors and even the dealers and no matter what he does, there seems to be someone that he can't please. And I am sure Tom respects that. We should all be thankful for what we get and not for what we can't get. When a dealer like Apple Cards spends that kind of money with Breygent, we should respect the fact that it now becomes their business what they do with the cards. Tom is doing his best to keep this hobby alive and I think we should all try to understand that his intent is not to upset the apple cart (no pun intended) but to strengthen the collectibility of all the titles that he tries to create for us to collect. Bottom line is we really don't have the right to judge his business decisions when it comes to what he does to make a deal with a client. And for those who decide not to collect a title because of the production numbers of a promo or incentive actually hurts 2 entities: first, the title itself is hurt because of lack of sales (hopefully it was a good title to begin with) and the other is the collector. I think it is sad to not buy a set of cards because you can't have all of the promos or incentives. It's like letting every kid play sports whether they are good or not. Some get to play and some won't. It is part of the way things are. I have been collecting for over 35 years and I consider myself a completist and it does bother me that I miss a few cards, but I still can afford the set and a binder of a title I really like. I would hate not to buy a set because I want to be spiteful and protest the fact that Breygent or any other company made a limited production card that I couldn't get. That's my problem, not Tom's. Please consider all of these factors before judging Tom or any other manufacturer for that matter. It's funny, so many are quick to judge Tom for what he does but I don't see anyone judging the other manufacturers for what they don't do for this hobby. Just my thoughts.

This sort of reminds me of that controversy from 10 or so years back, when Topps did the X-Men movie cards. There were 3-4 autos that never made it into the packs, but were later, well after the fact, sent to Diamond's retailers and were used as incentives in subsequent, unrelated Marvel sets.

That upset alot of fans, as these autos were so difficult to obtain.

Not quite the same, but the incident came to mind.

Isn't anyone considering the fact that Tom could turn around tomorrow and stop making all of these promos/incentives that we love so much and only make one or two promos? He would save a ton of money and not have to try to satisfy everyone at the same time? But I will bet people will then start to complain that he doesn't make enough. Be careful what you ask for people...You just may get it.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
Isn't anyone considering the fact that Tom could turn around tomorrow and stop making all of these promos/incentives that we love so much and only make one or two promos? He would save a ton of money and not have to try to satisfy everyone at the same time? But I will bet people will then start to complain that he doesn't make enough. Be careful what you ask for people...You just may get it.

I would be up for this.
The set itself is the reason people collect the cards.
The promos are extra.
If there were less of them, and they were avail to everyone on an equal/level playing field, I would consider that a win.
Tom- is this something you would consider?
It would save you money, create less anamosity and really not make a difference in the final saleability of the set- after all, who really cares if there are 2 or 15 promos for a set- all we care about is the ability to obtain them all.

I agree. Do what Rittenouse does for most releases. 3-4 promos per set. P1 sent to dealers (easy to get), P2 in NSU, P3 in the binder. Occasionally a P4 at shows

15 promos plus for the new American Horror Story is killing us !

I am sure that if Breygent agreed to this, a lot of people would be very, very disappointed.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
I am sure that if Breygent agreed to this, a lot of people would be very, very disappointed.

I think the only people who would disappointed are the people who get exclusive promos that they sell for big dollars to off-set their cost of cases.

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
I am sure that if Breygent agreed to this, a lot of people would be very, very disappointed.

I don't know how to do it, but maybe someone should set up a thread where people can vote.
It would be interesting to see what people think on the matter.

I honestly think people would prefer LESS promos

Look up above under the News section, about the people complaining about too many promos on American Horror Story, saying how they won't buy the product as a result. You can't just dismiss them as a few lone wolves who are in the minority. I can definitely see their point of view.

Actually only a few people complained about AHS but Tom admitted he went a bit overboard making too many promos. But I personally disagree with you. There is no doubt that the majority will go nuts if he cuts production. Just ask those who go to the Philly show and the SDCC & NYCC. As for doing a poll, I agree. That would be interesting to see what others feel about this. I guess we can ask Harris to see about setting a poll up for this topic. I'll look into this...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: beamer,

quote:

Originally posted by beamer:
Actually only a few people complained about AHS but Tom admitted he went a bit overboard making too many promos. But I personally disagree with you. There is no doubt that the majority will go nuts if he cuts production. Just ask those who go to the Philly show and the SDCC & NYCC. As for doing a poll, I agree. That would be interesting to see what others feel about this. I guess we can ask Harris to see about setting a poll up for this topic. I'll look into this...

Thanks Beamer.
If you can get the poll set-up that would be great. It will be very interesting to see what people think.
One question about show promos- why does it have to be a different promo? Like Tommy C mentioned- you can have a P1, P2 and P3 with a P4 for shows. It can be the same P4 for all the shows. That way, if you can't make the Philly show, you can get the promo at the SDCC, or Chicago. I suspect the people who would complain are the promoters of the shows- they would not have an exclusive promo to entice attendance. So the overall reason behind all the different promos is for financial reasons for the people receiving the promos- not the final collector of the promos- us the general public spending the money on the cards.

It was just too many promos at once for AHS, and what I felt was an unneeded preview set.

There have been a quite few promos in other sets by Breygent in the past, but they were spaced out.

For instance Grimm, it has taken over a year for it to get to the number of promos it is at.

None of what I have ever said has been to criticize Breygent, or Tom by any means. They put out some, if not the best sets in all of the trading card industry. I might be going out on a limb here, but I would expect he wants our feedback on what they are producing.

There are more reasons than just the amount of promos for AHS that I am not going to collect the set. If I don't for some reason manage to obtain the Applecards exclusives for Grimm, or the new Dawn set, I will still collect those. Plus I need to finish up some other sets like the Tudors, and Marilyn Monroe.

Those are just my opinions.

Doc,
I am sure that all feedback submitted is very helpful to Tom and his staff of very talented workers. I know him on a personal level, and I believe he makes all of the promos to satisfy as many collectors as possible but never intends to push away collectors for producing too much. Even I can never have enough! But first and foremost, he wants to supply the non-sport collectors the best of the best. This not only includes titles, but the quality of the cards themselves. I would bet he takes it personally to hear that a collector will pass on a set because they are a true completist and if they can't have it all, then why do it? But the truth is he realizes there are different people out there collecting and each has their own way of collecting. I would think he respects that fact but then has to try to cover all bases. I think that he realizes it is very hard to please everyone. It seems that he tries his best to find a happy median that allows all collectors to get something that he produces. If you knew Tom on a personal level like I do, you would see that he is extremely generous when it comes to not only giving out promos, but the way in which he tries to satify all of the people who collect his cards. Bottom line is that sometimes it is not what is said, but how it is said. I am sure we are all understanding of that.

I keep coming back to my assertion that it is the collector who is to blame for any problems with these promos.
Manufacturers like Tom at Breygent and Jason at Cult - Stuff ( to name just two ) go out of their way to produce all these cards and get them out to as many people as they can in order to make the hobby a much more enjoyable place to be.
It is no good blaming them for producing the cards or the dealers for selling the cards, there is only one part of the chain that is to blame for promo cards being $50 each and out of the range of most of us and that is the people driving the prices up on ebay and i'm afraid that means you Mr (I must have it all right now no matter what the cost) collector.

Well said Wolfie. This is so true because we are inevitably the ones to set the prices on the cards as they come out into the market.

I don't think the manufacturer is to blame for the promo problem. But if, as you said, the goal is to get as many of these out to the public as possible, to make the hobby a much more enjoyable place, then demanding that a customer buy 3-4 boxes of the product in order to get 1 of the promos, is not a way to achieve that goal.

On the other hand, other dealers who make their exclusive promo available for a SASE or for a few bucks, or who throw the promo in with a purchase of a small product, ARE making the hobby a more enjoyable place, to use your words.