quote:

Originally posted by BeckettBible24:
Wow! As usual, thank you for all the feedback. I always make sure to take everything into account when doing the price guide/database.

I'll try to be brief with my comments as I'm getting ready to start working on things at around 3:00 am CST. Our pricing is done through the sales data that our market gatherers compile for us. As you can imagine, with sales doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling in some genres throughout the pandemic, it is almost impossible to weed through everything. We also have to be careful because of shill bidding, BIN, graded cards, etc. It's a lot to go through for an entire team let alone one person.

Another major factor in making adjustments is time. Time is a valuable commodity in what we do and as crazy as it sounds, sometimes we just don't have enough time to get to certain sets. Combine the amount of vast pricing info and the amount of time it takes to get through it, sometimes things are just going to get overlooked. It's inevitable. I do the best I can to keep up with non-sports but I also have gaming which includes all the major properties in their own separate category: Magic, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc; MMA (UFC cards are hotter than they've ever been), Wrestling, Miscellaneous sports, Tennis, Boxing, Cricket, Rugby, Australian Rules Football, Vinyl (Funko, Kidrobot, Tokidoki, Loyal Subjects), Action Figures & Figurines (McFarlane, NECA, Starting Lineup, Imports Dragon, etc). Needless to say, there is a lot to do day-to-day.

That is where collectors and dealers can come into play. We encourage everyone to let us know trends that they are noticing in the market or reminders of things to check. I've already had several of you do so, so please keep those emails coming. I'm getting into the very thick of this almanac this week and I will be heavily focused on the last 20 years of autographs and Marvel stuff. So, if you notice anything that you want me to look at, email me at mbible@beckett.com. I'll be happy to check it out!

It sounds like you and the team don't have enough resources to do a thorough job.

There are a handful of threads on Card Talk that are already providing updates on many cards.

Good luck.

And let's say they had the resources to be very thorough and increase the page number to accommodate everything. What would the price of the guide have to be for Beckett to cover the expense and make enough money to be worthwhile? Would they have to make it $49.99 or maybe double it to $69.99? Would they be able to sell enough of them at those prices to do it again next year?

I have three editions of the Almanac from the past four years and have gone through them checking sets I know somewhat and those I know well. I've seen improvement edition-to-edition.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
And let's say they had the resources to be very thorough and increase the page number to accommodate everything. What would the price of the guide have to be for Beckett to cover the expense and make enough money to be worthwhile? Would they have to make it $49.99 or maybe double it to $69.99? Would they be able to sell enough of them at those prices to do it again next year?

I have three editions of the Almanac from the past four years and have gone through them checking sets I know somewhat and those I know well. I've seen improvement edition-to-edition.

All valid points.

Perhaps it would be better if pricing was avoided and resources were spent on other aspects of the guide.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
And let's say they had the resources to be very thorough and increase the page number to accommodate everything. What would the price of the guide have to be for Beckett to cover the expense and make enough money to be worthwhile? Would they have to make it $49.99 or maybe double it to $69.99? Would they be able to sell enough of them at those prices to do it again next year?

I have three editions of the Almanac from the past four years and have gone through them checking sets I know somewhat and those I know well. I've seen improvement edition-to-edition.

Sometimes the people who criticize a price guide or Almanac the most are the ones who never subscribe to it, never buy it.

I agree with you, the changes are there. I see them when I compare books. It will never satisfy everyone, for everything, but if all you want is a checklist, Allender's is free.

There does have to be a wholescale review of the pricing for the 2021 edition. I think some of the pricing got stale because certain big cards don't have many sales and because a lot of the focus of past Almanacs was on the format and design itself. What has happened in the card market over the past 18 months has created the tipping point, where some of the ranges have really gotten out of whack. Those have to be brought within an acceptable margin of error. As long as the recognition is there now that a hard review has to go to pricing this time around, I think we will get improvements on that end. I'm looking forward to the next Non-Sport Almanac.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
There are a handful of threads on Card Talk that are already providing updates on many cards.

Maybe a few of the “guests” can data mine through the threads and e-mail that stuff to Matt. I’m sure that he doesn’t have the extra time to search the various Card Talk threads for that info.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Perhaps it would be better if pricing was avoided and resources were spent on other aspects of the guide.

I’d like to see more Top 10 and 20 lists

I've been extremely busy doing adjustments the past three days. I've been sprinkling in the crucial with the mundane to have all my bases covered. Here's the short list so far: 24, The 4400, Adventure Time, Alias, American Horror Story, American Idol, Andromeda, The Apprentice, Arrested Development, Arrow, Batman, Dark Angel, Ghostbusters, Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Indiana Jones, Jericho, Looney Tunes Back in Action, Lord of the Rings/Hobbit, Osbournes, Outer Limits, Scooby Doo, Spider-Man, Superman Returns, Tomb Raider, Topps 75th Ann, Twilight Zone, Twin Peaks, Wild Wild West, and X-Men.

I know some of these selections sound strange but there is a method to my madness, trust me. Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, and Star Trek will be getting done midway through. Star Wars will be dead last (I'm still planning how to do this one because it's going to take everything in me to get it done). All in all, there will be considerable adjustments in the new almanac for mostly autographs and other minor things. I'm also going to be working on relics of certain properties like Harry Potter, James Bond, Outlander, and others where relics are hot. Stay tuned for future updates!

I don't think it's strange at all. If the Almanac just concentrates on the big, still-active franchises, that will get noticed by people into Andromeda, 24, the Osbournes, etc. They buy price guides for those and their Marvel, Star Wars, and Game of Thrones cards.

When you get a chance take a look at the Fringe sets. There are still fans for those because I noticed good bumps in the numbers for the autographs.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by BeckettBible24:
I've been extremely busy doing adjustments the past three days. I've been sprinkling in the crucial with the mundane to have all my bases covered. Here's the short list so far: 24, The 4400, Adventure Time, Alias, American Horror Story, American Idol, Andromeda, The Apprentice, Arrested Development, Arrow, Batman, Dark Angel, Ghostbusters, Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Indiana Jones, Jericho, Looney Tunes Back in Action, Lord of the Rings/Hobbit, Osbournes, Outer Limits, Scooby Doo, Spider-Man, Superman Returns, Tomb Raider, Topps 75th Ann, Twilight Zone, Twin Peaks, Wild Wild West, and X-Men.

I know some of these selections sound strange but there is a method to my madness, trust me. Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, and Star Trek will be getting done midway through. Star Wars will be dead last (I'm still planning how to do this one because it's going to take everything in me to get it done). All in all, there will be considerable adjustments in the new almanac for mostly autographs and other minor things. I'm also going to be working on relics of certain properties like Harry Potter, James Bond, Outlander, and others where relics are hot. Stay tuned for future updates!

If time allows, please add 2019 Flair Marvel Power Blast Exclusives. I believe they are in the OPG already.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I don't think show sales are valid for a price guide because most of the country doesn't have entertainment card shows. Most comic/sports card shows feature few, if any entertainment card dealers and across all shows how many dealers are going to have a specific card -- i.e. a Watson autograph for sale?

Those handful of non-sport card dealers and buyers at sport card/comic shows shouldn’t have their input considered because the venue is too small? If the dealer and/or buyer is a reliable source then I think the sale price should probably be at least considered.

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I don't think show sales are valid for a price guide because most of the country doesn't have entertainment card shows. Most comic/sports card shows feature few, if any entertainment card dealers and across all shows how many dealers are going to have a specific card -- i.e. a Watson autograph for sale?

Those handful of non-sport card dealers and buyers at sport card/comic shows shouldn’t have their input considered because the venue is too small? If the dealer and/or buyer is a reliable source then I think the sale price should probably be at least considered.

My sad reality is that outside of the Chicago Non-Sport show 5 or 6 years ago I cannot remember the last time I was at a convention where there were significant number of non-sport cards. At many of the local comic shows in the Chicago area there used to be 4-6 dealers with a significant selection of non-sport cards. Probably about 10 years ago the number of dealers started significantly dropping to the point where 5 years ago (the last year I was going to shows in the Chicago area) you'd be lucky if 1 or 2 non-sport dealers would attend the biggest shows, and there would barely be any entertainment cards at smaller shows at all.

The shows I have been attending for the last few years have a smattering of entertainment cards, but nothing even close to anything consistent -- I can't go to a show looking for literally anything specific.

It is an unfortunate reality right now, but for me I don't think there are consistent enough in person sales across a large enough geographic area to really be relevant to most people.

That is sad news. We all know that there are fewer collectors. It seems with every other issue of The Wrapper I read that another one of us has passed on - someone who grew up collecting cards and remember when packs were 10 cents or less. In my area (SF Bay Area) 20 years ago, there used to be several dealers selling cards at local collectibles shows, but by 10 years ago, there were maybe just two with a good selection. At the last show I attended, there was just one card dealer with a small table and he had only cards older than the 80's. It's hard to hear that even in one of the hubs of the collecting world, the Chicago area, there is a noticeable drop-off in dealers setting up at shows. That says that those that were going weren't making enough money to justify the show fee and the weekend devoted to being there.

However, those dealers are probably still buying cases for their regular customers who want someone to build sets for them with whatever chase they want. Their input would be valuable. They might even sell for less than what cards are going for on Ebay and get that all-important quick sale because they don't have to pay any fees and the collector probably drops by his place to pick up cards so there's no shipping hassle (no extra trip to the post office, no extra supplies to buy). I used to visit a local dealer once every week or every two weeks before he moved out-of-state. I bought singles, boxes, and the latest NSU from him.

One thing to consider is that there have been collectors buying not just a few boxes or a case but a few cases. They took out the middleman which was one of those show dealers in every area. An old friend would say that's the market becoming more efficient. It sounds like some of those collectors have cut back but only because the boxes have fewer cards and even a whole case might not have one of those hot hits to justify the purchase. Those cards became the multi-case incentives.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I don't think show sales are valid for a price guide because most of the country doesn't have entertainment card shows. Most comic/sports card shows feature few, if any entertainment card dealers and across all shows how many dealers are going to have a specific card -- i.e. a Watson autograph for sale?

Those handful of non-sport card dealers and buyers at sport card/comic shows shouldn’t have their input considered because the venue is too small? If the dealer and/or buyer is a reliable source then I think the sale price should probably be at least considered.

My sad reality is that outside of the Chicago Non-Sport show 5 or 6 years ago I cannot remember the last time I was at a convention where there were significant number of non-sport cards. At many of the local comic shows in the Chicago area there used to be 4-6 dealers with a significant selection of non-sport cards. Probably about 10 years ago the number of dealers started significantly dropping to the point where 5 years ago (the last year I was going to shows in the Chicago area) you'd be lucky if 1 or 2 non-sport dealers would attend the biggest shows, and there would barely be any entertainment cards at smaller shows at all.

The shows I have been attending for the last few years have a smattering of entertainment cards, but nothing even close to anything consistent -- I can't go to a show looking for literally anything specific.

It is an unfortunate reality right now, but for me I don't think there are consistent enough in person sales across a large enough geographic area to really be relevant to most people.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
That is sad news. We all know that there are fewer collectors. It seems with every other issue of The Wrapper I read that another one of us has passed on - someone who grew up collecting cards and remember when packs were 10 cents or less. In my area (SF Bay Area) 20 years ago, there used to be several dealers selling cards at local collectibles shows, but by 10 years ago, there were maybe just two with a good selection. At the last show I attended, there was just one card dealer with a small table and he had only cards older than the 80's. It's hard to hear that even in one of the hubs of the collecting world, the Chicago area, there is a noticeable drop-off in dealers setting up at shows. That says that those that were going weren't making enough money to justify the show fee and the weekend devoted to being there.

However, those dealers are probably still buying cases for their regular customers who want someone to build sets for them with whatever chase they want. Their input would be valuable. They might even sell for less than what cards are going for on Ebay and get that all-important quick sale because they don't have to pay any fees and the collector probably drops by his place to pick up cards so there's no shipping hassle (no extra trip to the post office, no extra supplies to buy). I used to visit a local dealer once every week or every two weeks before he moved out-of-state. I bought singles, boxes, and the latest NSU from him.

One thing to consider is that there have been collectors buying not just a few boxes or a case but a few cases. They took out the middleman which was one of those show dealers in every area. An old friend would say that's the market becoming more efficient. It sounds like some of those collectors have cut back but only because the boxes have fewer cards and even a whole case might not have one of those hot hits to justify the purchase. Those cards became the multi-case incentives.

It is a sad state of affairs. There are still shows in Chicago -- by all accounts the last non-sport show went very well, so there is still interest to put that show on. They are very fortunate. . . I definitely miss that show.

There are very few cards to be found in my new area. I contacted Rittenhouse when I moved through their dealer locator and they couldn't recommend a local dealer for me. Unfortunately I'd imagine that is true for much of the country.

If there are dealers who are buying cases and supplying cards to their regular customers behind closed doors so to speak I'd argue that those numbers should not be included in a price guide. In my opinion a price guide should reflect what is available to the general public. It really isn't fair to post in a price guide that isn't attainable by people reading the price guide.

I wish there were robust shows, and tons of dealers. . . I miss the days of getting entertainment card 'catalogs' in the mail every few weeks. I miss the days of being able to find entertainment cards in nearly every comic shop and about half the baseball card shops I walked in to. Maybe those days will come back -- I was in an antique mall a couple of weeks ago -- it's mall I go to every month or so, and I was shocked at the number of booths now that have started selling old entertainment cards (all junk, but it's better than nothing), late 1980s baseball cards, 1990s comic books, 80s and 90s video game carts, etc. . . It was a very quick change. . .

Then again I was traveling this weekend and stopped in a store I've never been in -- really nice store. Looked around a bit and asked about entertainment cards. . . The guy I spoke with seemed to be the owner -- he said trading cards are making a comeback, and if someone brings them to sell he'd buy them, but he had no plans to regularly stock them at this time. He said they used to carry sports and entertainment cards, but they were pushed out by gaming cards. About half the store is gaming now.

Who knows what the future holds, but right now the only place I can buy individual cards with any regularity is online -- mostly eBay, some COMC and rarely one of the few dealer sites. I suspect that is true for most collectors.

I have been meaning to ask Beckett why the sets of Americana and Pop Century are ignored in the Almanac, with the exception of 2019 Pop Century Metal covered in the last 2020 book?

I realize that these are hodge-podge products that cover a lot of ground and may be too large for a comprehensive listing on what may be deemed mainly common autograph cards. However there are always some very big and in-demand autograph cards mixed into every product and year. Sometimes they are the only signed card a popular celebrity may have done or the only more or less affordable card that may be available.

I have found that most autograph card collectors, even the ones who prefer the 'title" products and think Pop Century and Americana are cut rate versions, still appreciate the variety of signers and the added chance to actually get some of those signatures that cost too much in other sets.

They are popular products and have been carried in the NSU price guide before. So I would suggest that, if at all possible, you devise a separate section or make some consolidated listing to at least recognize and price those Americana and Pop Century autograph hits that have the most activity and value.

More updates to report. Autograph pricing for the following is now updated and will be included in this year's almanac: Battle of the Planets, Brady Bunch products, Breaking Bad, Chronicles of Riddick, Crocodile Hunter, DC's Legends of Tomorrow, Downton Abbey, Ender's Game, Eureka, Falling Skies, Family Guy, Farscape, The Flash, Ghost Whisperer, Gotham, The Guild, Hellboy, Hercules, Highlander, Lost in Space, Man Who Fell to Earth, The Munsters, NCIS, Night of the Living Dead, Once Upon a Time, Parks and Recreation, Penny Dreadful, Planet of the Apes, Psych, Red Dwarf, Roswell, Sleepy Hollow (movie and TV show), The Sopranos, Steven Universe, Terminator, Transformers, The Tudors, Under the Dome, Vampire Academy, Vampire Diaries, Veronica Mars, Warehouse 13, Wicker Man, and the X-Files. So, things are coming along rather well.

As for the question about Americana and Pop Century, it's similar to the Bench Warmer issue. There is only so much space to work with year-to-year. Even with the pandemic this year and last, there were a lot of franchise products that were added to the database. I'm constantly working to figure out ways to incorporate these products into the almanac but things like Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Fortnite, Marvel/DC, GPK, Wacky Packages, and our extended vintage listings are always going to come first. That doesn't mean Americana, PC and BW aren't important, it just means they don't the priority that the others do. No worries, though. You haven't seen the last of them in print publications, I promise. I'm working to get at the very least Pop Century back in this year since it was omitted (save the 2019 set) last year.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BeckettBible24,

quote:

Originally posted by BeckettBible24:
As for the question about Americana and Pop Century, it's similar to the Bench Warmer issue. There is only so much space to work with year-to-year.

No worries, though. You haven't seen the last of them in print publications, I promise. I'm working to get at the very least Pop Century back in this year since it was omitted (save the 2019 set) last year.

Thanks for answering, sounds good.

Just for myself, I wouldn't compare PC and Americana too much to Benchwarmer though. Benchwarmer has a more specific collector base, autograph card collectors really don't dabble in it unless the whole "title" appeals to them. I don't own a single Benchwarmer card, mainly because I have no idea who those ladies are, although I think a handful may have gone on to do something, somewhere.

The other thing is that there have been a lot of complaints from its own fanbase that Benchwarmers has just been churning old cards into the newer releases and there has been a fall off of long time collectors. So from those viewpoints, I think Benchwarmers has a more narrow market than the PC or Americana types.

If you get a chance, check the Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and Heritage autographs. Those have jumped too. I even see a Kathleen Kennedy autograph that took a Best Offer for something less than $1100. Even if it was not much lower than $800, it's a huge jump from last year.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by BeckettBible24:
More updates to report. Autograph pricing for the following is now updated and will be included in this year's almanac: Battle of the Planets, Brady Bunch products, Breaking Bad, Chronicles of Riddick, Crocodile Hunter, DC's Legends of Tomorrow, Downton Abbey, Ender's Game, Eureka, Falling Skies, Family Guy, Farscape, The Flash, Ghost Whisperer, Gotham, The Guild, Hellboy, Hercules, Highlander, Lost in Space, Man Who Fell to Earth, The Munsters, NCIS, Night of the Living Dead, Once Upon a Time, Parks and Recreation, Penny Dreadful, Planet of the Apes, Psych, Red Dwarf, Roswell, Sleepy Hollow (movie and TV show), The Sopranos, Steven Universe, Terminator, Transformers, The Tudors, Under the Dome, Vampire Academy, Vampire Diaries, Veronica Mars, Warehouse 13, Wicker Man, and the X-Files. So, things are coming along rather well.

As for the question about Americana and Pop Century, it's similar to the Bench Warmer issue. There is only so much space to work with year-to-year. Even with the pandemic this year and last, there were a lot of franchise products that were added to the database. I'm constantly working to figure out ways to incorporate these products into the almanac but things like Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Fortnite, Marvel/DC, GPK, Wacky Packages, and our extended vintage listings are always going to come first. That doesn't mean Americana, PC and BW aren't important, it just means they don't the priority that the others do. No worries, though. You haven't seen the last of them in print publications, I promise. I'm working to get at the very least Pop Century back in this year since it was omitted (save the 2019 set) last year.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
If there are dealers who are buying cases and supplying cards to their regular customers behind closed doors so to speak I'd argue that those numbers should not be included in a price guide. In my opinion a price guide should reflect what is available to the general public. It really isn't fair to post in a price guide that isn't attainable by people reading the price guide.

I think those types are dealings could be taken into consideration in the forming of a fair market price of the cards just like cards sold on message boards and on Facebook Groups. If the reports of sales can be trusted and/or verified then add them into the equation. Since there’s so few outlets that are selling and reporting non-sport trading cards sales these days then gathering as much info as possible is good to get a better idea of was the current market range is.

Non-Sport Almanac Pricing Updates to end the week: Babylon 5, Bates Motel, Big Bang Theory, Bionic Man/Six Million Dollar Man, Castle, Charmed, Continuum, Dexter, Firefly/Serenity, Fringe, Heroes, JAG, Smallville, Sons of Anarchy, Spartacus, Stranger Things, Supernatural, and True Blood have all had autograph adjustments completed. We're getting down to the nitty gritty. I have plenty of other things to check including promos, Marvel, GPK, Wackys and some select vintage stuff but it's all coming together!

Incredible work, Matt!
Seems like you hit a bunch of properties that deserve some highlighting after this turbulent year of collecting.

Are the Topps Allen and Ginter along with Upper Deck Goodwin products going to be included in the Almanac this time around?

Since it’s a “bonus” type addition, how about just including highly valued autographs, patches, and relic cards? That way there would be more room for other “non-sports in sports” cards. Among the ones that I can think of for inclusion would be the multiple sport/year autograph insert called “Fans of the Game” and the 2005-06 autographs and relics of Carmen Electra, Christie Brinkley, Jenny McCarthy, Shannon Elizabeth, and Jay-Z out of the various Topps products that year.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Heroes For Hire,