And also a lot more expensive

I've updated my listings through the C's. I had to move just about everything around due to field character limits. I'm going to have spread out the listings across the pages because of all the additional entries every year.

I've updated my listings for all the cards I found last year.

I have a question strictly for promo card collectors: do you believe that stickers; phone cards; pogs(game caps)and song downloads should be included as part of updating PCE through this thread?
My feeling is that they should not be.
I have come across hundreds of sticker sets running the gamut of non sport franchises over the years(Marvel; Star Wars; animation characters etc..) which PCE intentionally did not include in its final version(I discussed this with Todd Jordan years ago). These collectibles are usually distributed through food items such as cereal and frozen dinners and I agree with Todd's original intention, that these items should be considered as a separate category of collectibles and should NOT be listed in this online updated version of PCE. Granted, Todd did list a few select pogs, and stickers in the 2008 version of PCE but I don't know why. I wish I could ask him..

This also goes for phone cards(unless they were released as part of the card series by the manufacturer, (See Sprint Coca Cola) or the promotion is for the phone card as a stand alone product, meaning the trading card is legitimately promoting the upcoming release of a phone card set, for example. Pogs and song downloads belong in the same category.

Otherwise, why aren't sell sheets listed in PCE? After all, they fit all of the criteria of a non sport promotional item . They represent a promotional medium covering non sport, they are made of paper and were initially free. However, just as with stickers, pogs ,phone cards and song downloads, these "promos" should belong in a separate publication,( I'm not aware of a book which lists them to date) even though they may be popular collectible sub genres among many non sport card collectors.

If we blur the field of non sport collectible cards by including peripheral items, which some collectors have a predilection for, then to call all paper products "promotional cards", detracts from what PCE was meant to accomplish.

Hence, we should not be using this thread as a repository of ALL paper promotional items ever devised regardless of the form the item takes. Pogs, phone cards, song downloads and stickers have no place here. These collectibles should be listed and identified in another publication, perhaps one that also lists sell sheets.

As Todd stated in the back page of PCE, "This essential reference guide is the most complete promotional trading card(emphasis added) volume ever produced!". I think we should stick(pun intended) to Todd's original mission and keep this thread true to its intended purpose. What do you believe?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: promoking,

Hi Promoking,

It's a good, basic question. Todd didn't include product premiums at first. He included CCG promo listings in earlier editions of PCE and then he decided to leave them out. I think he did that partly because he saw there were magazines and websites doing that more comprehensively and it would save him a lot of space/money.

He disclosed his rules for inclusion in the guide but then he also broke his own rules here and there. For example, he included that set of St. Pauli Girl cards even though it was for sale as a product on the company website. His reason was that it was unlikely to be listed anywhere else. I questioned that idea but understood it. He wanted flexibility in the guide.

He also listed some sports cards because it's a Promo Card Encyclopedia - not just a Non-Sports Promo Card Encyclopedia. The sports he covered were those that were either not covered in sports card guides or had very light coverage. It allowed non-sport collectors who also have boxing, golf, soccer, extreme sports, and volleyball cards to have a one volume reference for a lot of it. I think that was a good idea.

I'm not sure I've ever included a song download, though if it's in card form, I would have to consider it.

I think Todd included promotional stickers, pogs, and phone cards because of his view of the term "card." If it's an item that has been part of a card set before, it could fall within the definition of a card. It's true a sticker is not the same thing as a card but I've never heard people say that they collect only the cards - not the stickers. Everybody likes stickers. Stickers have been part of the trading card world since at least the 70's. They were in the packs with the cards. You could say they were the first chase cards.

There were promotional pogs for The Simpsons and Star Wars Galaxy so a precedent was set for other pog listings. The Coca-Cola/Sprint Phone Card set opened the door for phone cards to be included. There could be a separate guide for all the numerous promo phone cards out there. That would require an expert in those to put that together. In the meantime I will include those as well, though in my own collecting, I don't actively hunt for those so you won't see many added.

I have questioned whether I should add promo tattoos. They are definitely not cards but they are card-like and they have been part of sets such as The Simpsons so people collect them. Some movies or TV shows don't have promo cards but they have promo tattoos. There was an animated movie called "The Borrowers" and a Madonna concert on HBO that was promoted by tattoos that were given away.

I wouldn't include sell sheets, even though they are promotional items, simply because they are clearly distinguishable from cards. There are cards that are printed on thin card stock, so the differences are perhaps blurred there, but sell sheets are generally printed on glossy paper.

All in all, when I add something to this thread, I am trying to adhere to the spirit of what the Promo Card Encyclopedia was and was becoming: a comprehensive guide to promotional cards and like items whether they were given out at a show, mailed to dealers/colllectors, inserted in a VHS/DVD movie, or slipped into a box of cereal. I don't see anyone putting together a new edition of PCE nor a separate guide to product premiums so I've been putting all the promo stuff I find in one place as a convenience to me and other collectors. That lets them see what's out there that they might not have seen when first released or might only vaguely recall.

Jess

This message has been edited. Last edited by: catskilleagle,

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
I have a question strictly for promo card collectors: do you believe that stickers; phone cards; pogs(game caps)and song downloads should be included as part of updating PCE through this thread?
My feeling is that they should not be.

Personally I only collect the promo cards not the peripheral items.

I have a huge collection of sell sheets and have always considered them a promotional item in it's own category. For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

Hi Zane,

That would be an interesting guide or website addition since there's nothing like that now. The listing should account for everything you have and know about but you wouldn't have to photograph/scan every single one - just the ones that are known to be uncommon-rare and any that are particularly striking/colorful with a sample from some of the popular franchises Buffy, Marvel, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Zane DeVan:
I have a huge collection of sell sheets and have always considered them a promotional item in it's own category. For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

quote:

Originally posted by Zane DeVan:
I have a huge collection of sell sheets and have always considered them a promotional item in it's own category. For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

I think sell sheets are great and part of a master set if the set has one. I loved the inkworks sell sheets. It would be great to have a website or book showing them

Catskilleagle,

I guess I am somewhat of a purist and, for example, do not consider promo stickers to be in the same category as promo cards. I know very little about them and have never typed in the words"promo sticker" in my Ebay search bar when trying to find a promo card. Sorry, but I do think that they belong in a separate collectible category such as cereal premiums or food inserts. PCE did list some items which would foot the above bill BUT the overwhelming majority, if any, are made of cardboard not of plastic. I too have lots of odd "promo type items" which I've found here and there but do not consider " promo cardish enough" to be included in my collection. let's agree to disagree about what should be included here.

On a side note, I do want to thank you for the immense contribution you have made to this thread and for the selfless amount of time & effort you have invested. Now I need to finish my update..

quote:

For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

Zane DeVan,

Recently, I've been working on my sell sheets and got them organized alphabetically. Is your want list in the trading section?
On the question of memorializing your collection, the problem with sell sheets is that you have to be extremely careful when taking them out and putting them back between a large 2 ply sheet because of how flimsy they are and how quickly they can get damaged. Apparently, you would have to repeat that action several thousand times gauging from your post, if that's how you store them. I believe that if you're going to go through that much trouble, publish a book! I'll be your first customer as long as I can get it autographed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: promoking,

Hi Promoking,

I guess I never noticed that you didn't list promo stickers. You have listed product premiums such as Aeon Flux, Asterix, and "Awesome Aircraft" so you must be allowing those if they are cardboard. I don't always look for "promo sticker" unless trying that angle to find something specific or just to see what comes up. Ebay searches don't always work right too. The funny thing is some of the stickers I have were sold as cards with me not knowing they were stickers until someone mentioned it later. I also have a couple of cards that someone claimed to be stickers but they are cards. I got my bases covered if nothing else.

I think anyone looking for promo items for something like Spider-Man would like to know the widest range of cards and card-like items so I have tried to list everything I have or see and let people choose from there. At flea markets, garage sales, and collectibles shows, we see all kinds of promo items that are certainly not card-like such as promo pins, matchboxes, and swizzle sticks. I have a promo frisbee for the movie, "Outside Providence," but I'm not looking to be difficult. Yes, let's agree to disagree.

You're welcome. Sometimes, it seems like there are just a few of us promo collectors left but I still like finding oddball cards.

Jess


P.S. I did like Chesspiece's thread on Simpsons promo pins given out at SDCC in the 90's. I have just a couple of those.

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
Catskilleagle,

I guess I am somewhat of a purist and, for example, do not consider promo stickers to be in the same category as promo cards. I know very little about them and have never typed in the words"promo sticker" in my Ebay search bar when trying to find a promo card. Sorry, but I do think that they belong in a separate collectible category such as cereal premiums or food inserts. PCE did list some items which would foot the above bill BUT the overwhelming majority, if any, are made of cardboard not of plastic. I too have lots of odd "promo type items" which I've found here and there but do not consider " promo cardish enough" to be included in my collection. let's agree to disagree about what should be included here.

On a side note, I do want to thank you for the immense contribution you have made to this thread and for the selfless amount of time & effort you have invested. Now I need to finish my update..

Hi again, Promoking,

There are archival pocket pages for documents which have a peel-away side to make removal and replacement less potentially-damaging for something as fragile as a sell sheet. Didn't they used to be called "flimsies" and "ad slicks?"

I don't really go after sell sheets though I have a few and did look for them for binder sets.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:

quote:

For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

Zane DeVan,

Recently, I've been working on my sell sheets and got them organized alphabetically. Is your want list in the trading section?
On the question of memorializing your collection, the problem with sell sheets is that you have to be extremely careful when taking them out and putting them back between a large 2 ply sheet because of how flimsy they are and how quickly they can get damaged. Apparently, you would have to repeat that action several thousand times gauging from your post, if that's how you store them. I believe that if you're going to go through that much trouble, publish a book! I'll be your first customer as long as I can get it autographed.

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:

quote:

For years I have tried to figure out the best way to present them either on my own website or in some sort of publication. I would like to have others chime in on their sell sheet collection to see what I am missing. Maybe someday I can work on that but to list and then photograph every sheet I have would be very monumental.

Zane DeVan,

Recently, I've been working on my sell sheets and got them organized alphabetically. Is your want list in the trading section?
On the question of memorializing your collection, the problem with sell sheets is that you have to be extremely careful when taking them out and putting them back between a large 2 ply sheet because of how flimsy they are and how quickly they can get damaged. Apparently, you would have to repeat that action several thousand times gauging from your post, if that's how you store them. I believe that if you're going to go through that much trouble, publish a book! I'll be your first customer as long as I can get it autographed.

Hey Albert, I will give you my autograph anytime you want it, can't be worth that much. I do have a sell sheet want list but it has some pretty obscure stuff I am looking for. I'm pretty sure I will just make a web database for the hardcore sell sheet collectors. I do probably have thousands but they are not that flimsy so I can slide them in and out of the sleeves I have them in fairly easily. Not sure when I will have time to do this but hopefully some time in the near future. I am always amazed what sell sheets sell for on the auction site. Sometimes they can get into the hundreds of dollars so there must be some fans out there who could benefit from seeing a true list of what I consider promo "non sport sell sheets"

Yeah I have seen the early Garbage Pail Kids and some Marvel sheets sell for incredible numbers. If your want list is posted, I hope I can surprise you and vice versa. I try not to include any folded ones in the collection whenever possible. Great to see you post more often by the way!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: promoking,

Hey Albert,

If you have time, email me about my sell sheet want list. Thanks

Hi everyone! It's great to see some people still are into promos and are keeping the documentation alive. I apologize for disappearing for all these years.

Someone ought to start a website devoted to this subject so all can be in one place. Images too. Not me though, as I've been out of it so long I would know LESS about promos than I did 12 years ago.

But you see what a pain in the *** it can be to keep it going. I bet "***" gets edited.

At times I want to get back to collecting and cataloguing but I just seem to have the bug in me anymore. Plus all my cards are no longer in my possession and I'd have to start all over. That's too daunting a task.

It is nice to see some of my old friends still going though. I mean collecting, not going as in "alive", but that's nice too .

Todd

Oh anointed one! Let me be the first to welcome you back with open arms. I know many of us have missed you and your knowledge. Where did you disappear to? I like the idea of a website. What do you suggest? Okay that's enough for now!

Annointed one...ha! I was never that. I wouldn't know the first thing about making or even suggesting where to make a website. I'm dumb that way.

I was working on another PCE way back when. I wonder if the stuff I. This thread covers what I added. Heck I'd donate my text file to build on that, if someone made a site.

Hi Todd,

It's great to hear from you! Did you disappear into the backwoods of Maine and grow a huge beard or exile yourself on an island and shut yourself off from the Force?

Yes, the work that you started continues. It's time-consuming to find and research previously unlisted promos and then add them to the list. We can only imagine what it was like getting Promo Card Update #1 off the ground and handling the increase in workload with each edition after that. Of course, I still have those early editions including my copy of PCU #3 signed and numbered out of 25. You did a lot of work, Todd, and a lot of us haven't forgotten and still appreciate it.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by pcetodd:
Annointed one...ha! I was never that. I wouldn't know the first thing about making or even suggesting where to make a website. I'm dumb that way.

I was working on another PCE way back when. I wonder if the stuff I. This thread covers what I added. Heck I'd donate my text file to build on that, if someone made a site.