I have some questions about this promo and thought I’d run them by the promo experts on here. The card in question is the 1992 Marvel Masterpieces Cap America blue back promo (1 of the 6 in that promo set, probably the rarest).

I collect promos inside their original sealed packaging. Shown below is my copy of Comics Scoreboard #36 with the Cap promo. This is the rarest promo-in-sealed mag of the 92MM set, harder to find than the Oct 92 Up N Cominng with Wolverine’s promo. Actually I’m not even 100% sure this magazine *did* come sealed and it wasn’t sealed after the fact, since it’s scarce. I don’t think any other Comics Scoreboards came sealed with promos (maybe this is was a one time thing?). I will say of the two copies I’ve ever seen and held in hand, from totally different sources, the shrinkwrap job seemed the same with the same tight seal around the mag. So I’m maybe 90% sure it’s a factory seal.



Anyway…to the question. Nslists (Jeff Allender’s site) has this cap promo coming from two sources, surprisingly- Advance Comics and Comics Scoreboard. I think the comics scoreboard (#36 above) is well established. My question is which Advance Comics could this possibly have come from? Or is that an error?

I have scoured the 1992 Advance Comics…the 92MM set came out in Oct, 1992, and the other promos in the 6 card set all seem to have come out ranging from August to Oct 1992. I can confirm the July, Aug, Oct, and Nov Advance Comics all do not have this Cap as their promo. That leaves just the September. Unfortunately a sealed copy of the Sept 1992 Advance comics simply *cannot* be found- anywhere (at least by me, and not for lack of searching). That alone is peculiar…as you can find almost any other month sealed with the promo here and there. Does anyone know which promo came in the 92 Sept Advance Comics mag? (Shown below with Spidey 2099). I have an opened version of this mag and it does not mention what promo it has, although that is not unusual. I suppose it’s possible no sealed copies can be found since the promo was so desirable, which would make sense with this Cap…but I’m just not really buying the Cap was in Advance Comics.



So my question: what promo came with this mag, and is nslists possibly in error about advance comics being a source for this promo?

I don't remember back in the 1990s, the Previews, Advance Comics, or Comics Scoreboard having sealed packs of promos with them.

I used to pick up all 3 from various stores each month and I thought that the cards were just tucked inside among the pages. As a result, alot of them fell out on the floors of comic book stores.

Advance comics came sealed with promo, here’s one example of a 92 impel Magneto hologram in sealed Advance comics. All the ones around that Sept issue can be found sealed, I just can’t find one example of the Sept mag sealed (I’m sure it originally did come sealed).





I think you may be right about Previews and Comics Scoreboard. For the Spider-Man promo in this same promo set, the Aug Previews has it stickied to an interior page like this (outer mag never was sealed)



Comics Scoreboard usually didn’t come sealed. The #36 is a bit of an enigma though…it’s possible that one single mag came sealed but I just don’t know.

There must have been some promo in the Sept 92 Advance comics, but not sure what it is. I can pretty confidently say if that promo was not the Cap America, then the Nslists info is wrong, as I cannot think of what other month it could possibly be.

PCE2008 says it was inserted with Advance but doesn't name the issue. At the time the Captain America promo was valued slightly higher than the Wolverine one from Up 'n Coming ($12 vs. $10), though I think in the past 15-20 years, the Wolverine card was more in demand (selling for more) but you might have a better angle on that.

I've noticed that sellers have wanted a lot for a sealed copy of Up 'n Coming with the Wolverine card in the past few years. I don't rememver seeing even back issues of that magazine but I didn't get back into cards until late 1994.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
PCE2008 says it was inserted with Advance but doesn't name the issue. At the time the Captain America promo was valued slightly higher than the Wolverine one from Up 'n Coming ($12 vs. $10), though I think in the past 15-20 years, the Wolverine card was more in demand (selling for more) but you might have a better angle on that.

I've noticed that sellers have wanted a lot for a sealed copy of Up 'n Coming with the Wolverine card in the past few years. I don't rememver seeing even back issues of that magazine but I didn't get back into cards until late 1994.

Very interesting it is saying that. I was wondering where nslists gets some of the info posted there….perhaps that PCE2008 could have been the source for the Cap promo info? It’s one of those things…I need to see a sealed Advance comics with the Cap at this point to believe it- and from the looks of it, it’ll probably have to be that Sept issue, since it’s nothing around it.

I follow the market for these promos and sealed mags pretty closely. It is true the Up n Coming with Wolverine sealed is probably a couple hundred dollars- it’s not that easy to find. (Btw I’m the type that utterly differentiates the sealed mags with promo from the promo itself…they are totally distinct collectibles, each with their own supply. In the case of some sealed mags, a vastly less supply than the promo itself).

The Wolverine and Cap are the 2 most expensive promos in this 6 card set. The Wolverine did for awhile overtake the Cap (no doubt in part because Wolverine popularity), but I think lately the Cap has been fairly cemented as the most expensive in the set. I do think it’s the rarest, even rarer than the Wolverine. The market prices of both the Wolverine and cap I would put quite a bit over $10 and $12 at this point. I have sold multiple wolverines in the $35 range on comc for example.

For reference- here are my copies of the 6 mags sealed with 92 Masterpieces promos intact, the full set (the Previews is not sealed as mentioned above, the Spidey within is stickied to a page).



(and this is why the nslists tidbit about Cap in Advance Comics is driving me nuts…I would like to add that if it does exist, but Im a bit skeptical).

Nonsport Update did do this classic cover featuring 92MM, but it did not contain a promo from the set within.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:
My question is which Advance Comics could this possibly have come from? Or is that an error?


So my question: what promo came with this mag, and is nslists possibly in error about advance comics being a source for this promo?

My sources say it came with Advance Comics (1989) #36 from Dec 1991.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassam Abdul-Baki:

My sources say it came with Advance Comics (1989) #36 from Dec 1991.

Thank you, that is very interesting. I’m trying to figure out how that could be possible. The 92 Masterpieces set came out in Oct 1992. The rest of the 6 promos all came out in magazines ranging Aug to Oct ‘92. It would be remarkable if a promo for the set was included nearly a year prior in Dec 91.

In the FPG-published book about the 92MM set recently release from the Kickstarter…Joe Jusko says in it he was offered the 92MM job in March 92, with a deadline of July 15th to be completed (impressively doing 104 paintings in the span of a little over 3 month span). I’m not sure how this could be reconciled with a promo in a Dec 91 issue when he wasn’t offered the gig until March 92.

Nevertheless will keep an open mind and look out for a sealed copy of that Advance Comics 36, if one exists (do not see any currently).

Another thought is perhaps there was something jumbled in translation somewhere, as the #36 happens to be the same number as the Comics Scoreboard #36 which it *did* seem to come from with reasonable certainty, and maybe someone put down Advance Comics 36 somewhere along the way mixing up the titles.

A bit of a side note, but the Cap promo is an anomaly of sorts. We were talking about the market above…there were 3 sales of the Cap promo on eBay over the last 3 months for $90-125. That is quite high for a promo from this set..a lot higher than even the Wolverine goes for.

Interestingly, it appears separate from the rest of the 6 promos on uncut sheets…it is alongside the set of 3 prototypes instead, as a bottom row:




The above is a common uncut sheet to find and was publicly distributed at the 92 National. I believe this sheet implies the print run of the Cap America promo is equivalent to the print run of any of those other 3 prototypes (Wolv,Spidey,Hulk) which came in a clear packet as a set of 3 given to dealers to promote the set. The other 5 blue back promos similar to the Cap were on a different uncut sheet all together (a sheet which is scarce to find and not shown). The Cap appears to be the rarest of the group. (Nslists’ description of that other sheet will give the relative rarity of the blue back promos of Hulk, Spidey, Psylocke, Surfer, and Wolverine- it has the numbers of them on that sheet).

Will leave the question on whether it was available in any issue of Advance Comics open for now. This can be settled with one picture of a sealed issue of that magazine with the promo.

Amalia Barrios' site says that Comics Scoreboard #36 (Oct 92) was the source of the Captain America promo - no mention of Advance.

The book, "Comic Cards and Their Prices" (Wallace-Homestead Book Company, 1994) by Stuart Wells III notes the source as "Scoreboard" - no mention of Advance.

As someone who has hunted down the sources of a variety of other promos, I thought it was interesting that the Captain America card was on a different sheet than the other "blue back" aka unnumbered promos but then they all were distributed separately.

I'd have to check but I think I am still missing both the unnumbered Captain America and unnumbered Wolverine promos. You could pick up the others easily. The 3-card pack was $5 or less until the pandemic and I think I got the unnumbered cards for as little as a buck a couple of times back in the late 90's to early 2000's.

Thank you for both of those sources. It is looking somewhat likely the Cap was only in Comics Scoreboard. I will still try to figure out what came in that Sept Advance Comics, but it’s looking like probably just Scoreboard.

I wish I could buy these promos for a buck, or the packet for sub $5! Crazy how much it’s changed since the pandemic. I would put a sealed packet around $50-75ish (should be same number of those as the Cap promo, from the above). For the blue backs, the Cap is like 90-125 lately, Wolverine 30-40, Silver Surfer maybe 20-25, and the Psylocke, Hulk, and Spidey round out as pretty common, few bucks each.

The nslists numbers for those blue backs on the sheet are

30 Hulk
24 Psylocke
3 Silver Surfer
15 Spider-Man
6 Wolverine

This gives the relative rarity of these promos. Surfer and Wolverine are quite rare compared to the rest. Interestingly the Surfer is the lowest print run of that group, not Wolverine. I think we see Wolverine go for higher for two reasons, 1. It’s Wolverine and 2. Up n Coming was probably a more obscurely read magazine than Comic Buyers Price Guide, especially in the states (if I’m not mistaken the distribution had a large Canadian component but not totally sure on that). So it can be see how possibly less Wolverines trickle out to the market than you’d think even with the doublely large print run.

If you have spent some time checking listings on Allender's site, you'll notice that he thanks Todd Jordan, the not-so-secret identity of PCE, a lot, including the MM92 listing. Allender, of course, has done his own research. He's the one who has Scoreboard as a source. While it appears now that no issue of Advance was the source of the Captain America card, it is still possible. Todd has always had a rule that if he hasn't seen it himself, or if some info didn't come from a trusted source, it didn't get printed in PCE. There have been typos or isolated mistakes in PCE but they were usually corrected in a subsequent edition. Todd's last edition was PCE2008 and I can tell you from personal experience that you have to scrutinize a lot of those listings to find an error in it. If the card was not in some issue of Advance, it might be that the two periodicals got confused by someone.

The only thing that makes me think the card was not in Advance is that we would expect a lot more of that card in the market. Offhand, I can't think of an Advance-inserted promo that has been pricey/hard to find.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
PCE2008 says it was inserted with Advance but doesn't name the issue. At the time the Captain America promo was valued slightly higher than the Wolverine one from Up 'n Coming ($12 vs. $10), though I think in the past 15-20 years, the Wolverine card was more in demand (selling for more) but you might have a better angle on that.

I've noticed that sellers have wanted a lot for a sealed copy of Up 'n Coming with the Wolverine card in the past few years. I don't rememver seeing even back issues of that magazine but I didn't get back into cards until late 1994.

Very interesting it is saying that. I was wondering where nslists gets some of the info posted there….perhaps that PCE2008 could have been the source for the Cap promo info? It’s one of those things…I need to see a sealed Advance comics with the Cap at this point to believe it- and from the looks of it, it’ll probably have to be that Sept issue, since it’s nothing around it.

I follow the market for these promos and sealed mags pretty closely. It is true the Up n Coming with Wolverine sealed is probably a couple hundred dollars- it’s not that easy to find. (Btw I’m the type that utterly differentiates the sealed mags with promo from the promo itself…they are totally distinct collectibles, each with their own supply. In the case of some sealed mags, a vastly less supply than the promo itself).

The Wolverine and Cap are the 2 most expensive promos in this 6 card set. The Wolverine did for awhile overtake the Cap (no doubt in part because Wolverine popularity), but I think lately the Cap has been fairly cemented as the most expensive in the set. I do think it’s the rarest, even rarer than the Wolverine. The market prices of both the Wolverine and cap I would put quite a bit over $10 and $12 at this point. I have sold multiple wolverines in the $35 range on comc for example.

Collecting not just the promo but also the sealed copy of the source publication is interesting and something I have considered in the past. It's instant proof of a source of a card. The only thing that kept me from doing that is that it takes more space and you run the risk of cards sticking together or getting otherwise damaged as opposed to the relative safety of a sleeve and maybe also a top loader. Of course, once it's in your collection, the magazine isn't going to be moved around too much.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:
Thank you for both of those sources. It is looking somewhat likely the Cap was only in Comics Scoreboard. I will still try to figure out what came in that Sept Advance Comics, but it’s looking like probably just Scoreboard.

I wish I could buy these promos for a buck, or the packet for sub $5! Crazy how much it’s changed since the pandemic. I would put a sealed packet around $50-75ish (should be same number of those as the Cap promo, from the above). For the blue backs, the Cap is like 90-125 lately, Wolverine 30-40, Silver Surfer maybe 20-25, and the Psylocke, Hulk, and Spidey round out as pretty common, few bucks each.

The nslists numbers for those blue backs on the sheet are

30 Hulk
24 Psylocke
3 Silver Surfer
15 Spider-Man
6 Wolverine

This gives the relative rarity of these promos. Surfer and Wolverine are quite rare compared to the rest. Interestingly the Surfer is the lowest print run of that group, not Wolverine. I think we see Wolverine go for higher for two reasons, 1. It’s Wolverine and 2. Up n Coming was probably a more obscurely read magazine than Comic Buyers Price Guide, especially in the states (if I’m not mistaken the distribution had a large Canadian component but not totally sure on that). So it can be see how possibly less Wolverines trickle out to the market than you’d think even with the doublely large print run.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine651:
Another thought is perhaps there was something jumbled in translation somewhere, as the #36 happens to be the same number as the Comics Scoreboard #36 which it *did* seem to come from with reasonable certainty, and maybe someone put down Advance Comics 36 somewhere along the way mixing up the titles.

It's possible that someone mistakenly had Advance Comics #36 and it was a mistake for Scoreboard. I never updated my list or tried to hunt it down. I only mentioned it since your Advance Comics hunt appears to have missed #36.

You make a great point about should be more common if it also came out of Advanced. I would lean towards it was a typo or mixup but I will happily change my mind if a copy of Advanced with the Cap can be produced.

I’m not as familiar with the PCE source. I do use nslists a lot for info, truly is a treasure trove of info. This wouldn’t be the first time of a mistake on there….not to go super off topic but I’m of belief the 1995 Marvel Metal silver flasher checklist does not exist (nslists has it existing and being scarce), and also appears the 93 Masterpieces Venom Promo black/gray printing is not a thing (only one version of that promo card exists), and that entry with the #P8 number probably arose from a mixup with the 2008MM series 2 Venom promo #P8. So it wouldn’t be the first time it’s in error, but it’s definitely rare for it to be.

Yes collecting the promos in sealed magazine is a fun (and at times very challenging!) endeavor. I like it because it’s like being right off the stand back at the time, the original source. I mainly collect Marvel Masterpieces, and have finally got to this point with the collection, with the MM series 1992-2024:

1) For every MM promo that came in a magazine, I have a magazine in factory issued state containing it.

I do *not* know if the following is true though:

2) For every MM promo that came in a magazine, I have a copy of every magazine in factory issue state containing it.

1) and 2) are different statements, and the question of this thread is very pertinent to it. I also am not sure if I exhausted all of the magazines with the 1994MM 4- and 9-panels, because there were a lot. Including of all things a GamePro (interesting to find a marvel promo in a video game magazine). Those 94MM panels were all over the place.

This Cap though remains probably the biggest question mark for me, but I’ll consider it just from Scorebord until evidence present itself otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
If you have spent some time checking listings on Allender's site, you'll notice that he thanks Todd Jordan, the not-so-secret identity of PCE, a lot, including the MM92 listing. Allender, of course, has done his own research. He's the one who has Scoreboard as a source. While it appears now that no issue of Advance was the source of the Captain America card, it is still possible. Todd has always had a rule that if he hasn't seen it himself, or if some info didn't come from a trusted source, it didn't get printed in PCE. There have been typos or isolated mistakes in PCE but they were usually corrected in a subsequent edition. Todd's last edition was PCE2008 and I can tell you from personal experience that you have to scrutinize a lot of those listings to find an error in it. If the card was not in some issue of Advance, it might be that the two periodicals got confused by someone.

The only thing that makes me think the card was not in Advance is that we would expect a lot more of that card in the market. Offhand, I can't think of an Advance-inserted promo that has been pricey/hard to find.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wolverine651,

quote:

Originally posted by Bassam Abdul-Baki:
It's possible that someone mistakenly had Advance Comics #36 and it was a mistake for Scoreboard. I never updated my list or tried to hunt it down. I only mentioned it since your Advance Comics hunt appears to have missed #36.

True might not be bad to broaden the range of the Advanced hunt. I think we can safely discard anything prior to 4/92 as Joe Jusko was just being offered the job in March or early April per his words.

I think I did check most of those months April-July and no dice. Sept is the question mark. Oct no dice. Interestingly, it is not unheard of for a promo to be included *after* a set release (for example the 94 Masterpieces 4-panel w/Magneto came out in a Dec magazine after an Oct/Nov set release). Alas I checked Advanced Nov-Dec, and even Jan 1993 and no dice. Very doubtful it could appear in anything past Jan 1993.