There is a bit of a debate going on in a Facebook Marvel card group, that I wanted to ask this board because I know there is a lot of promo knowledge here.

It is about 1990 Impel Marvel Universe promos. Specifically the diamond-back promos (Diamond preview promos), that look like this



One side is arguing these only came from 4-panel uncut promo sheets (in other words, if you see one of these diamond promos, it must have been handcut from a sheet, that looked like the below):




The other side is arguing that the diamond promos did also distribute as individual promos, and there existed clear cello packs with them. (Supported by the article for 90MU on nslists that lists a 20-card diamond set next to the promo section- in addition to a section for the 4-up panels).

I am of the former stance- that a diamond promo must have been cut from a sheet, not distributed in a clear packet (in part because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sealed clear packet with diamond pack promos from this set). But welcome to be proven wrong so I can learn something.

There WERE clear packets with promo cards released for this set, but do not have the diamond back logo, and are quite rare to find (20 cards in this promo set). The cards inside differ from regular base with a glossy finish and differing copyright info. Apologies, the best pic I have right now is the below- but they don’t have the diamond logo.



Did the diamond logo backs get distributed as single cards or just by the uncut promo sheets?

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My memory from that era is that yes, the cello pack cards did not have a diamond logo, but that they were different in some small way from normal cards - a small difference in layout, or perhaps the card numbering for the promos was different than from the normal cards. And the difference was on the backs. If you saw a promo card in isolation, there was nothing about it that screamed "promo", but if you compared it side-by-side to a normal card, you could see differences.

I need to go dig those 35 year old cards from whatever box I have them in and see.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
My memory from that era is that yes, the cello pack cards did not have a diamond logo, but that they were different in some small way from normal cards - a small difference in layout, or perhaps the card numbering for the promos was different than from the normal cards. And the difference was on the backs. If you saw a promo card in isolation, there was nothing about it that screamed "promo", but if you compared it side-by-side to a normal card, you could see differences.

I need to go dig those 35 year old cards from whatever box I have them in and see.

Hmm this sounds like it matches the second thing above pretty well- the promos in clear packets that had the copyright difference perhaps? If you find any, please let me know.

I guess it’s possible there also existed clear packets with individual diamond promos in addition to that, but I’m just not sure. I said in the FB group I thought the diamond ones only came from the 4-up sheets but I was told that was incorrect.

Several years ago, we talked about those prototypes and the gray logo promos. I picked up a set of the uncut sheets and the singles, later selling the singles. Here's the thread:

https://nonsportupdate.infopop...717055696#4717055696

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Several years ago, we talked about those prototypes and the gray logo promos. I picked up a set of the uncut sheets and the singles, later selling the singles. Here's the thread:

https://nonsportupdate.infopop...717055696#4717055696

Wow that’s exactly this topic, thanks for the link. I admit I’m still a bit confused! So people seem to be saying there are individual diamond promos (which is true since they exist on eBay etc), but do we still know for sure there are diamond ones that were distributed that way and not just sheet cut? Has anyone ever produced say a clear packet with the diamond promo cards in it?

This is what seems to be the summary:

-20 diamond promos on (5) 4-up promo sheets, in diamond previews magazines

-20 card promo set (or test run set)- glossy, does not say Impel Marketing on back- rare and expensive. Came in 5-card clear cello packs.

-20 card individual Diamond promo set (manufacturer cut)???

I’m leaving that last one as a question mark and just wondering if we have any hard evidence. I’m still being stubborn about this group existing.

It appears to be the same 20 cards in each group.

It will be interesting to see what Bill finds in his stash. He attended a lot of those early shows and was among the first collectors/documenters of promos (if not THE first). He still has cards in their original form. For instance, he has an uncut strip of cards (Tour Cards) that I had only seen as singles before so I gathered from that the singles were likely cut from that strip by dealers/collectors after the strip was given out because collectors overwhelmingly preferred to have singles that fit in their 9-pocket pages rather than uncut strips/panels/sheets that didn't always fit within the space allowed by a binder.

Anyway, I can't swear to it but I'm pretty sure the promos with the gray Diamond logos were originally available as 4-card sheets and singles. It's possible that the sheets were cut up after the fact for the reason stated above but I would expect to see a lot of sloppily-cut singles. All the singles I have seen appeared to be professionally-cut. Someone might counter with something like, "Well, cutting the sheets cleanly at right angles simply takes a good eye, exact measurements, and a steady hand but people seeing dollar signs can be impatient and cut corners.

It sounds like the cards he’s describing are the so-called ‘true promos’ from 90MU- known to come in cello packs, and without the diamond logo on back.

It’s a tricky situation with the diamond promos. I see exactly what you’re referring to on eBay- several diamond promos that are clean cut (and in PSA 8-10 slabs..don’t look handcut). Maybe that’s a clue. It’s probably still possible someone noticed these individual diamond promos can sell for high amounts in high grade- Spider-Man PSA 10 diamond promos up to $2000+. Especially starting around the spike in early Marvel Universe PSA 10s during the pandemic. That alone may have been enough incentive for some indivuals to more or less professionally cut 4-panels to generate some.

But there sure are a lot of these clean cut singles. I’m trying to imagine what hard evidence would even look like to support diamond promos being released as single. One would be if they started turning up in sealed cello packs or something, like the other promos- but these have never been observed to my knowledge. Or at the least… to know the method of distribution of the singles. We know the diamond promo sheets came from the Prviews magazines. It’s hard to make conclusions about singles being issued if the distribution isn’t even known (card show, convention, magazine, dealer kits, etc). That is important info for me in concluding they were released as such.

One might question does it even matter who cut the card- manufacturer or end user- if it’s the exact same diamond promo, indistinguishable. I argue it does…if they were never issued as singles, then the singles are not distinct collectible units and the ones one eBay going for hundreds may as well be worthless (to me..there is no value in a cut sheet). Perhaps a philosophical issue but I do think it matters how they originated.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
It will be interesting to see what Bill finds in his stash.

Very little, I'm afraid. While I think I have a "shoebox" of promos that I haven't gone through (it's been years since I've seen it, and I'm not sure where it is, TBH), I doubt it has any single promos or the cello pack in question. I have a vague recollection of finding out, sometime ca. 1995 or so, that the cards in the promo pack were in fact different than base cards, and fretting if I had taken such a cello pack and opened it and sorted it into the base cards that I had. If I knew the numbers of the cards in the base pack I could examine them and pull them back out (if I had ever actually owned a cello pack and sorted out - the memory is failing on such details after 30+ years). I'm pretty sure, though, that I never had any Diamond promos other than a sheet or two pulled from the catalogs.

quote:

He . . . was among the first collectors/documenters of promos (if not THE first).

Thanks for noting that. I need to go back to the article on promo cards that I wrote in an early NSU, and check the first few price guide listings that included the Marvel cards that I compiled -- maybe they will shed some light.

Thanks, yes that would make sense if it was a cello pack of the true promos.

Some of these cello promo packs have been turning up on social media recently, including Facebook- some even opened on camera. They appear to have 5 cards in the clear cello pack. They differ only in a slightly more glossy finish and the back trademark info doesnt have “Exclusively distributed by Impel Marketing” on the back, which regular base cards do. Minor difference as you noted, but still distinguishable. The thought is these may have been direct from designers at Marvel as a sort of prototype, rather than Impel, since Impel not mentioned on the card, but I’m not sure exactly the background of it. The big thing though- none of the cello packs shown in any of the social media examples have a diamond logo on back of card. So I continue to lean toward they were not issued as singles. But will leave the question as unknown either way 100%. There does still exist the possibility the diamond promos were just handed out as singles somewhere…but where? It’s a little bit suspicious the distribution of these hypothetical diamond promo singles is unknown. (Backdoored from Diamond or something, or maybe the distributor just giving them direct to dealers… not sure what it would be. I doubt they were in any magazine).

The promo numbers these involve- for any of these groups: the diamonds, cello pack promos, or uncut 4-panels- are the following 20, according to nslists:

3-6-8-29-32-39-57-60-62-63-78-82-83-87-89-96-100-125-136-139

So if you did have a cello pack of these, would be one of these numbers.

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