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Ebay authenticity program
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Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
posted
Was curious about what people thought of this news?

https://pages.ebay.com/authent...rantee-tradingcards/

No opt out and 'free' is for a limited time.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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I thought that it could be interesting until I saw this, which eliminates nearly all entertainment cards:

"Authentication is now available for ungraded cards $750+ with the exception of patch and autographed cards"

I assume that also eliminates sketch cards.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
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At the start. later in the year the value drops to $250 and includes patch and autos.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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Hmm. . . Interesting - I went through the page a bit more thoroughly.

I think it is great to have an option for authentication, although you are at the mercy of authenticators, and I have seen both good cards get marked not authentic and counterfeits get slabbed. See Logan Paul's fake $3,500,000 Pokemon case.

Due to authenticators bring human and the possibility of mistakes I don't like that all cards that fall into the determined category must be authenticated -- I'm a little unclear on that, but it seems that if they deem your card authenticatable then you are forced to used their authentication -- even if the buyer doesn't want to.

What worries me most is what happens if they *think* your item is counterfeit:

"d. Impact of Fraud Detection on Buyers and Sellers.

You acknowledge and agree that if the third-party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be removed from marketplace circulation. In addition, eBay will work with the proper authorities as needed and reserves the right to confiscate or destroy any items determined to be counterfeit. "

Could you imagine what would happen if eBay destroyed a Star Pics SNL Chris Farley autograph because they didn't think it was authentic? I have no faith at all in an authentication company to be able to authenticate Star Pics autographs -- and there are a high percentage of fakes out there.

Also based on the wording it seems like in the future this isn't going to be a free service. . .

I like this idea if it is an option, but I don't like it if it is forced, and I have concerns about their ability to authenticate with 100% accuracy.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
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I am fully against it. First off, it puts alot of power into Ebay's hands that *I* didnt' ask for them to have. I dont' want my cards shipped twice, assessed by a stranger that I've no clue of his credentials. And we know if it's free now, it won't be later.
Ebay charges 10% of shipping they have no part in because a small number of people were abusing free shipping to avoid fees. Now, they're after more money for something that, at least in my circles, isn't even an issue. I can't even think of a fraud in Trek-land except some weird one off with a Chris Pine auto that was so obviously a fake....
To make it a requirement when they stand to gain financially seems unreasonable.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can certainly understand why you dislike the idea as an honest dealer. Unfortunately not all dealers/sellers are honest.

My opinions on things like authentication and grading have been evolving a bit lately, and that is mainly because I have been searching for older cards that well known dealers don't have in stock anymore.

I've been buying cards from sellers with few entertainment card sales, and seeing a lot of listings overseas -- in some of these instances I would like the option to have a card authenticated.

I would also like to have the option to have someone verify the condition of cards I am buying. It seems lately a number of $100+ cards I've bought have had damage that wasn't visible in the scan -- that's another issue.

I am curious though what happens if eBay determines a card is authentic, but it is later proven to be fake. Does eBay guarantee the card is authentic as long as it is in it's tamper proof cell? Will they pay the current value of the card if it is found to be fake?
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It is weird that suddenly Ebay wants to get involved with what's selling. It used to police itself paying people to go through listings to make sure no adult/objectionable material was mixed in the main section of the site. To cut costs they stopped doing that some time ago even though they probably weren't paying that much for that.

I don't like that if they declare a card is a fake, they confiscate it and maybe destroy it. That would keep you from taking them to court if the evidence is gone. Ebay is declaring itself an expert in cards but are they going to pay for card experts to look at your cards? What is a card expert? I've collected cards since the 70's. Am I qualified to authenticate cards? Yeah, I can point out defects, but can a skilled counterfeiter fool me? That has to be a maybe. What happens if the authenticator is not sure either way?

How many collectors are going to want to keep their Ebay-authenticated card in the holder Ebay provides?

Yeah, what if they authenticate a card that is later proven to be a fake. Just one instance of that would destroy the credibility of every other card authenticated. I wouldn't have guessed that Ebay would have stuck its neck out like this but it must be getting hammered behind the scenes by buyers who proved they received fakes but it took longer to prove them than Ebay allows for returns.
 
Posts: 3491 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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I don't know what liability eBay is trying to protect themselves from, but third-party authenticators present even more problems than third-party graders. Autographs are a minefield, that's why certified autograph cards provide the best verification.

Can you question them? Might the certified autograph card itself be a fake? Sure it can and you can. You can question anything if you have a mind to do it. And you can question those third-party authenticators too, if you knew who they were. Big Grin

It's a bad idea to me when you try to put it into practice because there are so many holes in it, and ways for things to go wrong, without providing any more absolute guarantees than you already had.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
 
Posts: 9532 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raj
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According to FAQ section
quote:

Who is authenticating the cards?
Leading industry experts at the Certified Collectibles Group's affiliates, CGC Trading Cards and Certified Sports Guaranty (CSG), are authenticating the cards.
 
Posts: 3212 | Location: Luton, UK | Registered: October 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Raj:
According to FAQ section
quote:

Who is authenticating the cards?
Leading industry experts at the Certified Collectibles Group's affiliates, CGC Trading Cards and Certified Sports Guaranty (CSG), are authenticating the cards.


That gets interesting because of the business structure. Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) has been around a long time and owns several companies that grade a variety of collectibles. The newest one seems to be Certified Sports Guaranty (CSG) that launched in February 2021. CSG was described as a sports card grader. So make of that what you will, but the eBay deal seems like a huge scoop for them. I don't grade and rarely hear anything besides the very popular PSA and Beckett.
 
Posts: 9532 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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"We take fraud and counterfeits seriously."

This is the part that made me laugh.
 
Posts: 4278 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Platinum Card Talk Member
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Questions that I'd have if I were in the position to ask them:

1. If eBay 'suspects' (their word, not mine) an item is counterfeit, removes the item from circulation and refunds the buyer is the seller still paid? I assume no, but I did not see this clearly laid out anywhere I saw on the page linked.

2. What liability does eBay accept if they wrongly 'suspect' an item is counterfeit and report a seller to the authorities? If the seller has legal fees to defend themselves is eBay accepting liability for that (most certainly not) or can the seller sue for their legal fees, or is that prevented from eBay user agreement and forced arbitration?

3. How does authentication work for custom cards?

a. What if the custom card uses trademarks/copyrights it doesn't own?
i.e. A custom card with a Star Wars logo made for an autograph signing.

b. What if the the custom card is made from a licensed card?
i.e. A 1977 Topps Star Wars card embedded with a cut Alec Guinness autograph.

c. What if the custom card is made to look similar to a licensed card?
i.e. A custom Bryan Cranston as Walter White card created for a private signing and designed to look like the Cryptozoic Breaking Bad autographs?
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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when ever has E Bay done anything for free and they eventually will charge the seller or the buyer
Through FEES
Seeing as there is a bottom line $750.00 %10 is a good bite for them
But with this being said there will possibly not be many non sports cards that meet this criteria
Possibly more Sports Cards
 
Posts: 726 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: November 22, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Scifi Cards
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At this point, there are few cards that are NOT autographed that will breach the threshold on value.

Serial numbered Marvel Cards will be the biggest current target.

So until they include autographed cards to this, it's mostly a moot point.

But I too wonder how "custom cards" will fare. Can you be authentic and not licensed at the same time? Card design comes under copyright law as well as logos, so it will be interesting to see what happens IF they open this up to autographs.

Ed

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Trading Page Now Online: http://www.scifi.cards/trading.html

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Posts: 4951 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: March 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of STCardGeek
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I agree, it doesn't matter too much at this point, but according to what I've read, the plan will include autos and the value will be dropped to $250 later this year, so it's not so much a matter of if, but when.

***
By the middle of this year, this service will grow to include graded, autograph and patch cards sold for $250 and higher, as well. These additions broaden eBay’s ability to assure its customers of the authenticity of high-value items, including the sneakers, watches and handbags the company is already able to authenticate.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/01...s-worth-750-or-more/
**

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
***
By the middle of this year, this service will grow to include graded, autograph and patch cards sold for $250 and higher, as well. These additions broaden eBay’s ability to assure its customers of the authenticity of high-value items, including the sneakers, watches and handbags the company is already able to authenticate.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/01...s-worth-750-or-more/
**


This is interesting -- they are authenticating graded cards?

Does that mean they are authenticating the card itself, or the slab or both?

Certainly they wouldn't de-slab a graded card.

I'm curious how they plan to put graded cards in their own sealed holder . . .

If someone is selling a card sealed in eBay's authentication holder will it be re-authenticated, or can it be shipped directly to the buyer?
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Another question/problem . . .

If COMC sells a card on eBay does COMC have to send the card to the Authenticator even if the buyer wants to keep the card at COMC?
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
But I too wonder how "custom cards" will fare. Can you be authentic and not licensed at the same time? Card design comes under copyright law as well as logos, so it will be interesting to see what happens IF they open this up to autographs.

Ed


I truly have never understood the argument about these "custom" cards. We aren't even talking about officially licensed sketches as compared to ACEOs. We are talking about handmade or homemade cards that may have incorporated genuine autographs or these "hybrid" cards slapped together from parts of copyrighted cards. Most of them claim to be 1/1s, as opposed to the cheap, unlicensed counterfeit cards, sometimes tagged as "promo" cards, that are produced in unlimited numbers.

These "custom" cards are counterfeits if they are infringing on copyrighted items, materials or images. Furthermore, when you cut up a formerly licensed card, the pieces are no longer licensed or guaranteed by the original maker. It's just like a warranty gets voided when you fix something yourself.

So if you have a certified autograph, cut from the certified card, or a sticker signature that was peeled off from something else, or a prop cut from the relic card, it no longer has any certification, and you need a new authenticator. If you then stick the signature or prop on a handmade card of a copyrighted title without getting the rights, the whole thing is still unlicensed, although parts may be genuine, and grading services are not even supposed to consider it for submission. Perhaps someone might still authenticate the autograph, but that would be the best you can get to me.

It just seems really obvious to me that the so-called "custom cards" can't be part of any authenticity program, even if they somehow meet the dollar minimum down the road.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
 
Posts: 9532 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Jessica
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
Was curious about what people thought of this news?

https://pages.ebay.com/authent...rantee-tradingcards/

No opt out and 'free' is for a limited time.


So I was going to get back into eBay mainly to sell most of my older and unwanted cards. But this certainly gives me pause. I DO NOT like this as a buyer or as a seller. The fact that it is not an option really irritates me. And the fact that it is free for a "limited time". Bull. They will be charging for this because they are greedy. I will not be using eBay again. Especially as long as this is in action. I'm glad I broke my ebay habit a while ago. I guess when I am ready I will go to a dealer and see if I can do consignment or just sell my collection outright to them. Sigh. There needs to be another outlet other than eBay for collectors to sell.

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Jessica
 
Posts: 1915 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA | Registered: May 26, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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Interview with Bob Means director of trading cards at ebay.

https://www.sportingnews.com/u...6e9ltw914xlepioy0s5v
 
Posts: 4278 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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