"I didn't want to but my agent pushed me into it" sounds like a lot of assumption to me. It is true that Non sports cards will do little to nothing for the career of a major celebrity but either they want to or they don't. Could a card license fall within a show's promotional portion of an actors contract? Possibly....I don't know.

Obviously in today's crazy market it is nice to get the big name sigs but they don't "need" them. Stuff is selling out before anyone even knows who is on the list. With the limited production and its popularity the UA set would have sold out with or without the Page signature. If in fact her sig is not real.

I see no problem with a card company explaining their reputation in authentic collectibles and asking for some form of video proof. If that is too much for the celebrity then let em walk. Personally I think it would be a lot fewer than we imagine. Most of them are jacked into social media anyway...it is not like it would be some foreign process to them. I also think there is something very much celebrity or Americana about having your own official trading card. Bragging rights almost. I have often wondered if some celebs actually go online to see how much their card is selling for?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
It sounds simple to do, but some of these signers act up when asked to do more than the minimum. The ones that consider themselves stars are often the most difficult, but sometimes even the lesser names have their demands.

I think card makers know that they need these big and small celebrities to do their products more than the celebrities need the money they get, so of course they bend over backwards to get these cards back without asking for further evidence. If the star/stars of the series get mad and cancel the commitment, that may kill the whole product before it starts.

Card makers don't have the leverage over the main cast members, and they know it. The makers are begging the agents to get their clients on board. They aren't going to lay down any more rules besides just sign it at your convenance and return.

If they say they want a SKYPE session and the signer walks away, what then? They're not going to risk it, even if it's a better guarantee.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
"I didn't want to but my agent pushed me into it" sounds like a lot of assumption to me. It is true that Non sports cards will do little to nothing for the career of a major celebrity but either they want to or they don't. Could a card license fall within a show's promotional portion of an actors contract? Possibly....I don't know.

Obviously in today's crazy market it is nice to get the big name sigs but they don't "need" them. Stuff is selling out before anyone even knows who is on the list. With the limited production and its popularity the UA set would have sold out with or without the Page signature. If in fact her sig is not real.

I see no problem with a card company explaining their reputation in authentic collectibles and asking for some form of video proof. If that is too much for the celebrity then let em walk. Personally I think it would be a lot fewer than we imagine. Most of them are jacked into social media anyway...it is not like it would be some foreign process to them. I also think there is something very much celebrity or Americana about having your own official trading card. Bragging rights almost. I have often wondered if some celebs actually go online to see how much their card is selling for?

[/QUOTE]

Well neither one of us is in the trading card business, although you do a nice job of making your own custom card collection. We are both just speculating here, and I think if I'm not mistaken, that you give people a lot more credit for doing the right thing than I do.

Some celebrities know all about their "hobby" worth and some are totally ignorant. Some care about their fans and some treat them like parasites. Some protect their "money signature" like it was gold and others are willing to give autographs away for free. Some are so clueless that they really believe sending back autopen signatures or having their Assistant "ghost" their autograph is a service to their fans. Others are just arrogant jerks who will hand out any mindless scribble when they have to and laugh at the fan who treasures their junk. Or they can't stand anyone maybe making money off their autograph and think that all "fans" are heading straight to eBay. And then others were maybe collectors in their youth or are just respectful of people who might want a memento of someone who's talent they enjoy.

Card manufacturers have to deal with all these different types and attitudes in the course of getting signed contracts for the cards and stickers they need for their products. Maybe it's about how much they pay, but only up to a point for some people. Extra cash gets the low hanging fruit, but stars often need more incentive than that. They have to want to do it and then want to do it right or you get the initials, or the scribble, or the Assistant, or nothing at all except excuses.

Card products can and have been cancelled because, after the license was obtained, main actors couldn't be signed. Makers can't negotiate before the license, so they don't know who is in or out until they try. If there is an all-star cast, maybe no one will contract, so some great movies and shows are never even considered for cards.

Yes, titles do sell out now without the checklists. That's because distributors and dealers have to get their orders in or be shut out of often highly limited production. Sometimes buyers will line up with the hype, but true card collectors aren't that foolish. Smart card collectors wait to see who is signing in that product and, if enough good hits are not there to risk the ever-increasing box costs, they will stay away from the boxes and just pick up the few cards they may want. That puts all the pressure on the box breakers to cover the cost. They will be stuck with the shortfall this time, but they won't buy the next one. That's when the chickens come to roost for the card maker, on the next one.

Sorry for the length, but it's a complicated operation and I admire those companies who take the risks and have figured out how to do it effectively. Unfortunately, when something goes wrong with a big signer on a certified card it tends to overshadow all the positives that these cards and stickers provide to people who have no better way of obtaining a genuine autograph from a celebrity or on a title that they follow.

I'll add a little twist to it all, for authenticating things...
Some people on here might perhaps remember that the CZE Outlander cards for Season 1 did not include autograph cards for actor Tim McInnerny, but one day some started appearing on ebay and they looked the real deal, and it apparently turned out that his returned box of signed cards to CZE got lost in the post and it was a box bought blind from lost property(or whatever they do in those circumstances). The cards were genuine, and I was very happy to get one for my S1 collection, but I wonder how the authenticity would work for that?
They were official cards, but not pack pulled or available via CZE and written off as not returned/lost. Unofficially offical perhaps?!

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:
They were official cards, but not pack pulled or available via CZE and written off as not returned/lost. Unofficially offical perhaps?!

"Unissued" I think, just like when graders include the word "Promo" on the label.

Assuming all info is correct, the signature can be authenticated. The license was valid from Outlander, so the card can be authenticated, and condition graded. It was legally obtained by whoever sold it. Crypto didn't sell it and that is the sticking point.

But I don't think grading services are going to want to get involved in that. If Crypto wanted to track down the guy who bought the box and claim that the lost property laws didn't give him the right to sell their copyrighted property, that would be up to them.

Authenticators don't make judgements about stolen property, just if the item is genuine or not. The card and signature are genuine. If they labeled the card as "Unissued" that would seem to be sufficient in my opinion.

The term usually provided for cards not available officially is "unreleased" but "unissued" would fit better on a label. Collectors don't always learn where "unreleased" cards come from but sometimes it's from employees selling something that was given out within the company (Skybox gave out prototypes for its American Vintage Cycles 2 to some of its employees).

In this case the cards were lost in the mail. I've been to an "unclaimed freight" store before. There used to be one in San Jose, CA - closed for a while now. There were actually some boxes of "Saga of the Dark Knight" (Skybox, 1994) for sale for about $10 each. This was years after the release. I wasn't collecting the set so I didn't buy one.

Anyway, what if you buy some unreleased cards at such a store? I don't know if the company can come after you if you bought them from a store that acquired them through some established process from the post office. The company could ask you to return what you have left but that might be a complication for them since they probably wrote off the loss already.

I see there was discussion of the McInnerny card back when the cards were new in 2016:

http://nonsportupdate.infopop....453/m/1157011776/p/3

Guess cards aren't the only problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...source=pocket-newtab

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Guess cards aren't the only problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...source=pocket-newtab

More great new careers, sneaker re-sellers and sneaker authenticators. Are there college courses for those?

Sneakers have been a problem since the Air Jordans showed up, but I guess I'm bias about it. I really don't care if these guys get ripped off. I would say the same thing about the gals and their Louis Vuitton bags too, so at least I'm gender neutral.

If it's all about showing off name brands, then you had better know your stuff or you will get stuck with well-made counterfeit clothing and accessories. I don't look at clothing, shoes and bags as collectibles, just normal functional items. We all want to have nice things, but there is a limit for me.

When I see people who have to buy this stuff for hundreds and thousands of dollars and other people who are actually impressed by those people, I wonder what is wrong with them all. Weird coming from an autograph collector, right? Oh well, we all draw our own lines.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

When I see people who have to buy this stuff for hundreds and thousands of dollars and other people who are actually impressed by those people, I wonder what is wrong with them all.

Ahhh! The Kardashian effect.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I see there was discussion of the McInnerny card back when the cards were new in 2016:

http://nonsportupdate.infopop....453/m/1157011776/p/3

I see one for sale at the moment for £45 no mention of it being "Unissued" or "Unreleased" by the dealer selling it, so some people might not be aware that this card was not in the set (I know there is a checklist)!! Also under the title of Wardrobe Autograph Card

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hammer,

Small aside. Cryptozoic have just posted a couple of photographs of Ian McKellen signing cards for their latest CZX Middle-earth release over on their Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/cryptozoic/

So probably a safe bet that they are genuine autographs

Well, looks like a couple of Page sigs actually passed PSA authentication. So that is two out of three TPA's saying the sig is good. It's nice to see given the crazy range of samples.

Still interested in seeing what the upcoming book signatures will look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20411...tkp%3ABk9SR8r8_Y_RYQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20411...tkp%3ABk9SR8r8_Y_RYQ

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Well, looks like a couple of Page sigs actually passed PSA authentication. So that is two out of three TPA's saying the sig is good. It's nice to see given the crazy range of samples.

Still interested in seeing what the upcoming book signatures will look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20411...tkp%3ABk9SR8r8_Y_RYQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20411...tkp%3ABk9SR8r8_Y_RYQ

I never doubted the Page autographs from Rittenhouse. What I do question is the Ian Holm/Alien from Upper Deck. And, they could still be legit. He may have had trouble at the end of his life signing, but was OK printing his name. I don’t think anyone has dared to submit that.

quote:

Originally posted by Electrawoman Cards f/k/a jane:

I never doubted the Page autographs from Rittenhouse. What I do question is the Ian Holm/Alien from Upper Deck. And, they could still be legit. He may have had trouble at the end of his life signing, but was OK printing his name. I don’t think anyone has dared to submit that.

I submitted online assessment for both cards through ACOA and Beckett and both cards split between likely to pass and not to pass. ACOA said both Ellen and Ian were legit.

Ebay is unlikely to ever have to authenticate a Holm sticker on his UD Alien cards because the value is below their requirement. He was ill for a long time before he passed away, but those who suspect the last autograph stickers can always find his signature in earlier products.

If there was a lot of doubt about Page, I would think RA would have owned up to it by now. If Beckett is still refusing to authenticate the autograph on the certified card, the question should be put to RA on their forum and see if they respond.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Ebay is unlikely to ever have to authenticate a Holm sticker on his UD Alien cards because the value is below their requirement. He was ill for a long time before he passed away, but those who suspect the last autograph stickers can always find his signature in earlier products.

If there was a lot of doubt about Page, I would think RA would have owned up to it by now. If Beckett is still refusing to authenticate the autograph on the certified card, the question should be put to RA on their forum and see if they respond.

I mentioned the Page controversy to Rob at Rittenhouse. He strongly affirmed that the Page autos were legit, and I believe him. Rittenhouse has no reason to put out fakes, and it would damage their stellar reputation. And, I’m pretty sure that now Elliot Page is aware the Season 1s are out there.

"Controversy"

Kinda proud of that. Although I think asking questions when something doesn't look right is hardly a controversy. Even now I still can't find any other Ellen sigs that look like the cards.

Some signers are really consistent while others are all over the place.

Like other card companies we don't know Rittenhouse authentication process. I talked to Gigi Edgley once and she said they just mailed them to her. It's not about RA putting out fakes but receiving them without any sort of witness. In no way was I trying to indict the company but fakes do get out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mykdude:
Like other card companies we don't know Rittenhouse authentication process./QUOTE]

Well, we kind of do. It's the Honor System.

They mail the cards to the signers and the signers return them signed. It's the signer's responsibility to provide genuine autographs and the wording on the back of the card says so.

At one time there used to be witnesses, but it has to be a very special and expensive signing for that to happen now. It's just not done by any card maker as a regular practice anymore.

Now when it comes to "cut signature" cards, that's a different story because the cut does require third-party authentication. I would guess that on most "cut" cards it isn't evident just which authenticator passed it. You take the card maker's word that someone did, unless you can figure out the source yourself. Like when they destroy an already perfectly good certified autograph card to make their own card.

So for those of you who are smart enough to never do this, here is what you are missing . . .

Despite my hatred of eBay, a few of my sources folded up last year, and I reluctantly returned as a selective buyer only. Having been gone so long, the first thing that shocked me was just how much sales tax adds to everything. That's a different story, this one is about the eBay authenticity program.

I saw a card I really wanted. It was over $250 and ungraded. I hit the button and the program kicked in.

Now I chose a good seller, and he did everything right and fast. The whole process added exactly 3 days to my delivery time and I was updated all the way. I know it was exactly 3 days because I bought another card from him at the same time and it came 3 days before I got my authenticated package.

So the card is in a tablet sized blue folding cardboard cover with a magnetic clasp and the words "ebay, Authenticity Guarantee" and that circled check mark. Looked good, right? The inside not so much.

There is another cardboard inside saying "Congratulations on your recent purchase!" and explaining how you can scan the barcode on the back of the sleeve. It says that a team of industry experts at CGC, CSG, or PSA inspected it, but not which one. It says the protective blue cover can be snapped back into a display stand, which it can.

The problem for me was the size of the cut out in the stand or cover. It is larger than the standard card in its hard plastic, but slightly smaller than the overall plastic case that is sealed with the barcode. The two tight little straps that hold the card in place to the very shallow cutout work, but edges of plastic overlap the cut out.

You can take the card out of the holder/stand, but not out of the plastic layers, I'd say at least three sleeves, that are sealed by the barcode. There is also another seal that says "void if damaged". The card certainly looks to be in a high-grade condition, but since you can't actually remove it, it's harder to see small imperfections. The card's condition grade was never part of the process, just the authenticity of the card and the autograph, since it is a certified autograph card.

I think the whole package might help to sell it to someone off eBay, but if you wanted to sell on eBay, it would have to be sent out for authentication again.

Now I'm not going to use the display or keep it in as a folder, because I don't like how it sits. I can't put it with any other cards, because the plastics must stay intact. Since it did go through the process, it seems foolish to void it, but I didn't need it for myself either.

So I'm still happy to have this "holy grail", but I think eBay could have devised a better way of packaging the card. Maybe they will when they start admitting that this is costing them something to do and they start passing that cost on to somebody else, like their customers.

Personally, I would say that the process worked better than I thought it would, but the benefits for me aren't enough for me to like it. I never doubted the card and I don't have a nice presentation piece, so I wouldn't seek this out if it wasn't a requirement. Luckily, I don't see me doing this again.

I'm having my first card go through their authentication program and I have no idea why.

It was an $80 autograph and when I bought it the listing said it would be guaranteed. I'm not sure if that is something the seller can add or what, but it doesn't fit the price point so it is confusing, but whatever.