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Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of SHouseman
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quote:
Originally posted by MILLER 777:
I dont understand why artists such as Houseman could be in support of such an idea. I wouldnt be surprised if alot of artists dont just drop off this forum. Thats a shame, and over something so petty.Its a sad day in the trading card industry. MILLER777 out. Shake Head


First, don't single me out MILLER 777 Shake Head There are many artists in the loop on this advertising forum and Harris has extensively done his homework to make it fair, contacting many of us for our opinions on numerous occasions before he rolls it out.

Secondly, I was a CARD COLLECTOR before I was a sketch card artist, so I see both sides of the coin, probably one of only a few that do here. There are going to be allowances for artists to post RELATED cards in RELATED threads, such as a new Lord of the Rings set - "here's some cards I did from that set". Individual artist threads with their own work/commissions would have to go in the pay area. That's fair in my opinion.

After trading e-mails on this with the other artists and Harris, I came back to this site. 9 OF THE FIRST 15 POSTS ON THE FORUM WERE ARTIST THREADS. I do agree we are part of the hobby and I put in that notion that we should continue to be able to post our company-set sketch cards in their related threads which I'm happy will happen. I started a Breygent thread where numerous artists posted their Movie Poster and Oz 2 sketches. THIS WILL STILL BE ALLOWED IN THE NON-PAID areas. Artists in general just putting up misc work WILL have to get a paid advertising thread and showcase their non-set related stuff there. You can advertise, put up commission rates, put up E-Bay links, etc. If you make one sale or get one commission, you pay for your 3 month advertising cost on NSU. Not everyone who reads this site is a sketch card collector. Heck, I'm a card collector and sketch card artist AND I DON'T COLLECT SKETCH CARDS!!!! Just understand that many collectors are into many things that may not be sketches. They may collect autographs, or inserts, or... They have opinions, too.

As an artist AND a collector, I think this is fair for both sides. All the artist here can go to the great Scoundrel site and post there as well for free. I have in the past 3 days gotten 2 e-mails about commissions off of NSU without posting new pics or anything, so either I am the sole artist who has had that happen, or others just are not honest Smile $25 for 3 months is very fair and I will sign up for it the day the 2nd advertising banner for sketch card artists pops up.

Artists, please, we ARE a part of the collecting community and this site will support that with the related set threads. But, we ARE overtaking this board if you like it or not... I will argue the point with anyone that wants to single me out. Those in Harris' loop knew with this rollout that some artists would get upset and I'm sorry. With the money some artists are making on commissions, I'd think you could afford the $8.33 a month to advertise here. I'm married with 2 little boys, a house, and 2 cars. I KNOW what the term "starving artist" means, but I'll fork out the fee Smile

Feel free to respond, I'll take ya on. After all, I'm right Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SHouseman,

____________________
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway."
- Crow T. Robot from Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie
 
Posts: 1186 | Location: USA | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
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Picture of RAMolinelli
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Basically I stopped posting because of the influx of hatred about the threads WE ALL post for our fans to see the artwork and not have to necessarily have to move outside of NSU. But certain squawkers have basically rethink that I was using NSU wrong, and if you are supposed to pay to post your work well I have my own website to do that on. I pay enough money marketing myself that I don't feel I should have to pay show some artwork I have done. Too a group of people whom I have really grown to love posting for. You can only read that complaints for so long before you say the hell with it and move on. I post very frequently on Chris Edwards boards, and not one person there complains about it. I don't have time anymore to deal witht the slap and tickle fight of people complaining about the artists. And this isn't geared towards the FANS who really appreciate the work we put in, its geared toward the shear disregard for the artists personally by a few hardcore collectors. Jon both you and I have discussed this behind the scenes, and you know how I feel. Just trying to shed some light on why I stopped.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RAMolinelli,
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Outer Space | Registered: December 05, 2005Report This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of SHouseman
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quote:
Originally posted by RAMolinelli:
Basically I stopped posting because of the influx of hatred about the threads WE ALL post for our fans to see the artwork and not have to necessarily have to move outside of NSU. But certain squawkers have basically rethink that I was using NSU wrong, and if you are supposed to pay to post your work well I have my own website to that on. I pay enough money marketing myself that I don't feel I should have to pay show some artwork I have done. Too a group of people whom I have really grown to love posting for. You can only read that complaints for so long before you say the hell with it and move on. I post very frequently on Chris Edwards boards, and not one person there complains about it. I don't have time anymore to deal witht the slap and tickle fight of people complaining about the artists. And this isn't geared towards the FANS who really appreciate the work we put in, its geared toward the shear disregard for the artists personally by a few hardcore collectors. Jon both you and I have discussed this behind the scenes, and you know how I feel. Just trying to shed some light on why I stopped.


RAM, I love your stuff, I wish I could do art that vibrant, I'm too anal Big Grin

All of the stuff you've posted for Rittenhouse's Marvel set, the Breygent Oz and Movie Poster sets, and so on will still be allowed in the regular forum threads. It's just all of our "non-company" stuff would have to be in a paid area. You could still post here and I KNOW I, along with many others, would miss your stuff. Take a day or two and please don't be frustrated!!! Smile You're too good of an artist for that Thumb Up And I do agree that it's a small minority unfortunatley that has complained that has brought this whole issue to the forefront. I would prefer that we keep posting for free naturally! There was a similar sketch card artist backlash 9? months or so ago before I started sketching. It blew over and this will, too.

____________________
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway."
- Crow T. Robot from Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie
 
Posts: 1186 | Location: USA | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
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Picture of RAMolinelli
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quote:
Artists, please, we ARE a part of the collecting community and this site will support that with the related set threads. But, we ARE overtaking this board if you like it or not... I will argue the point with anyone that wants to single me out. Those in Harris' loop knew with this rollout that some artists would get upset and I'm sorry. With the money some artists are making on commissions, I'd think you could afford the $8.33 a month to advertise here. I'm married with 2 little boys, a house, and 2 cars. I KNOW what the term "starving artist" means, but I'll fork out the fee Smile

Feel free to respond, I'll take ya on. After all, I'm right Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin


You know Scott you had me at hello.
And this is the prime reason I stopped. I don't want to post anything anywhere, where it is perceived that I was trying to take over. There are 15 artists threads, there could be a lot more if we didn't keep posting in the same thread. I have NO PROBLEM Supporting NSU and donating money to Harris for the site. HELL this site is great I get to read about upcoming projects and see fans reactions. But I was in no way advertising anything on this site just for the sake of advertising and that is how I am reading this thread. And I know someone is going to say "we weren't talking about you in specifics". When you mention artists you mention us all. Cynthia turned me on to this site Scott, and I love it here, I love the people I interact with. I'll wait for the decision to be made, and make my own decisions on what I want to do. Scott you insinuating that we are taking over a community that we were trying to make better, by adding a way for the fans of our work to interact and tell us what they like and dislike, is far more insulting that anything anyone has posted. I am glad guys like Prenz, Sumoxilla and Meth voice their opinions it can only lead me trying a little bit harder to impress them and make the card set better. So guys just make an artist forum or make a pay artist forum but don't say that we are taking over because I can honestly say that 90% of us just want to show the fans of our work, our work.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RAMolinelli,
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Outer Space | Registered: December 05, 2005Report This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of SHouseman
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quote:
Originally posted by RAMolinelli:
Scott you insinuating that we are taking over a community that we were trying to make better, by adding a way for the fans of our work to interact and tell us what they like and dislike, is far more insulting that anything anyone has posted.


I don't see why you are upset. Honestly. THIS IS A CARD COLLECTING WEBSITE, not an art site. You can still post any cards you did for company sets FOR FREE in that related thread. Fans can still comment on them. I'm truly sorry if you feel this is insulting, but I just don't see how it is. Whether you want to agree or not, the "General" thread is becoming an art thread, not a card collecting one. I LOVE to hear people say they like my stuff as well, and that they'd like to see more of "this subject".

Hopefully Harris will chime in and this can me figured out. Talk of having just an artist thread was discussed, you just have to understand that many artists are cropping up and Harris has to pay for the bandwidth, etc as well. Anyone that draws a picture in crayon can log on and post. It's not just a core group of 5-10 artists anymore. Please understand this was a solution, perhaps it can be revised some if needed.

____________________
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway."
- Crow T. Robot from Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie
 
Posts: 1186 | Location: USA | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
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Picture of RAMolinelli
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Hence why I closed my thread until I find out whats what. Plain and simple. I'll continue to post in the sets I correspond with. I was only upset with the fact that YOU made it sound like us posting threads of our own was some way of us taking over the card collecting community. And Scott you'll soon find out I don't get upset by much Smile No harm no foul, and I will just post once an a while until this gets respolved.
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Outer Space | Registered: December 05, 2005Report This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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I'd hate to lose any members -- artist, non-artist. . .

I just hope that the opinions of a vocal few don't sway people to stop posting -- there has been far more support than there has been complaints.

I do agree -- as does pretty much everyone else that it would be a good idea to have another section to post personal work, just like we have sections for trading, promos, advertising, etc.

Jon
 
Posts: 5234 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Report This Post
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Picture of RAMolinelli
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Don't worry Jon I'm not going anywhere, I'm just not adding to the thread until a decision is made for an artist forum or not. If its decided not than I will re-open it.
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Outer Space | Registered: December 05, 2005Report This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of SHouseman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RAMolinelli:
I was only upset with the fact that YOU made it sound like us posting threads of our own was some way of us taking over the card collecting community. And Scott you'll soon find out I don't get upset by much Smile No harm no foul, and I will just post once an a while until this gets respolved.


And I've had no ill feelings at all as well... Well, Miller 777's PO'd me, but I'm over it Smile I KNOW none of US artists (myself included) are trying to take over the community. I look at EVERY artist's thread to see their new stuff daily Smile It's just the sheer number of different threads that is wild. Talk of a non-paid forum was also discussed, it just comes down to if 1) artists can stay WAAAAAY clear of anything resembling advertising, and 2) the costs that extra posting/web hosting could cause for Harris and NSU which I understand.

PEACE TO ALL MY COLLECTING AND ARTIST HOMIES Smile

____________________
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway."
- Crow T. Robot from Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie
 
Posts: 1186 | Location: USA | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SHouseman:
quote:
Originally posted by RAMolinelli:
I was only upset with the fact that YOU made it sound like us posting threads of our own was some way of us taking over the card collecting community. And Scott you'll soon find out I don't get upset by much Smile No harm no foul, and I will just post once an a while until this gets respolved.


And I've had no ill feelings at all as well... Well, Miller 777's PO'd me, but I'm over it Smile I KNOW none of US artists (myself included) are trying to take over the community. I look at EVERY artist's thread to see their new stuff daily Smile It's just the sheer number of different threads that is wild. Talk of a non-paid forum was also discussed, it just comes down to if 1) artists can stay WAAAAAY clear of anything resembling advertising, and 2) the costs that extra posting/web hosting could cause for Harris and NSU which I understand.

PEACE TO ALL MY COLLECTING AND ARTIST HOMIES Smile


I'm making sure that I don't mention sales in my thread. And the reason mine started out as a 'I drew this' thread is because, due to a death in the family, I hadn't drawn for months.

People seemed happy to see me post!

And Re hosting costs.. if NSU is NOT hosting the images, then the cost of hosting falls on us, the artists.

Like RAM, while $25 seems inexpensive, I do have to take other marketing efforts into consideration, like rebuilding my web site and putting that $8 a month into getting myself a better web package with more space. Or printing off self promo stuff for Celebration 4.

I'm not posting in my thread until a decision is made, but I still lurk the board Smile

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http://www.flyingarmadillo.com
 
Posts: 138 | Location: Canada | Registered: April 03, 2005Report This Post
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Picture of mtlhddoc2
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Arty is correct, the picture hosting and hosting bandwidth are on your dime, not NSU's - however, NSU pays for their hosting based on traffic and number of messages.
 
Posts: 7774 | Location: Censored | Registered: November 26, 2001Report This Post



Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of SHouseman
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quote:
Originally posted by mtlhddoc2:
Arty is correct, the picture hosting and hosting bandwidth are on your dime, not NSU's - however, NSU pays for their hosting based on traffic and number of messages.


Thanks, I don't know computer jargon, sorry. I knew there was a cost NSU had in there somewhere.

____________________
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway."
- Crow T. Robot from Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie
 
Posts: 1186 | Location: USA | Registered: June 13, 2003Report This Post
Administrator
Picture of H_Toser
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Hey, don't blame the other members. Blame me!

I am the one who has been draggin his feet. I do intend to start the artists forum soon. This will be where artists can post their works, ask for commission work, solicit feedback, link to eBay sales, etc. This will be for the nominal $25 fee, of course.

We hope that artists will stick around and continue to contribute to our regular discussion threads. Your input is invaluable and unmatched by us meer mortals.
 
Posts: 12974 | Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: November 29, 2000Report This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of mtlhddoc2
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The costs really come into play here just because of the sheer number of posts which have been racked up in those threads in a short ammount of time. Hosting on infopop can be done in various ways, but the most cost effective way is a tiered program (this is not just NSU, but anyone who wants to use them). Basically, you only pay XXX ammount per month if you have only XXX number of messages posted, when the number increases reaching a tier threashold, your cost automatically increases XX number of dollars. There is also a bandwidth threshold - basically meaning, the more people reading, the more bandwidth is pumped out. Granted, NAU's is mostly text, but it still adds up.

EDIT: posted at the same time as Harris, this is a response to Scott and others who are unsure how costs of a board like this work.
 
Posts: 7774 | Location: Censored | Registered: November 26, 2001Report This Post
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Picture of naenae
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Thanks for trying so hard to fix the problem, H Toser.

I won't be participating in the 'ad rental space'. I am not here to sell stuff, just to share, just like collectors here like to share their collections of cards or prized posession.

I am pretty surprised at this whole thing, actually. wow.

I will continue to hang around, though, I like these forums, just won't contribute art anymore. Too bad, I thought at least some people liked itFrown

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Posts: 51 | Location: Salina, Kansas | Registered: December 16, 2005Report This Post
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Picture of RAMolinelli
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Sorry to say I'm with Renae. I'll continue to add to the set threads I'm involved in. Sorry guys, I guess stay tuned to my blog for artwork updates, its on my site.
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Outer Space | Registered: December 05, 2005Report This Post
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Picture of MarleyEds
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Well, this is definately a tangled web. I think the reason why some people might think artists are taking over the board (which I personally don't agree with) - is because sketch cards are taking over a good portion of the non-sport trading card world.

It comes with the territory. When autographs were the "in thing", weren't people posting/talking about non trading card autographs too? Did people try to strangle the passion out of them too? If art is flavor of the month, talk about art is going to expand.

But in the end, this board is a trading card board - so I can understand why some people feel the way they do - but I think its more complicated than some are making it out to be.

Anyway, there are other Art Forums out there that love artists posting their work for any reason.

Cool

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Posts: 118 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: February 24, 2005Report This Post
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Thanks for working it out, but I am with nae and Rich on this.

I;ll poost art in the set threads, but people will have to look elsewhere for my recent art. Smile

Still looking forward to contributing to set threads.

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Posts: 138 | Location: Canada | Registered: April 03, 2005Report This Post
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Picture of MILLER 777
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First I would would like to say I agree with the general consensus here, artists should be able to post new work to share with everyone,but trying to sell the said artwork is where this has become an issue.I personally think that the major card manufactures frequent the boards and its benifical to have artwork posted for an oportunity to work for said manufacturer. Now Mr Houseman I am sorry I singled you out brother,but you were the last in line.You are correct there are other artists that feel the same as you. Are you really right?Do you have your own website to promote your artwork? When did you become the ambassador for the trading card industry by the way? I dont want to go into a whole bashing session over all of this. I dont need the drama.We all have our opinions and like I said before I rarely ever post pics of my work on this forum. Collectors and fans can always go to my website which is updated weekly to see my new artwork. For those artists trying to pimp their work here on this forum to get sales they should be told it is inappropriate, after all this is a collectors forum not an art forum. Artists posting works that relate to sets they are working on or other related card projects should be exempt of fees. And futhermore as for trying to put anyone on a guilt trip about the nominal fees we artists are paid that was not my intention. I merely wanted to point out that we dont get paid that well, I mean a dollar fifty per card is not alot of $, so to have to pay to display seems abit over the top for this starving artist. Sorry if I have offended any of you with my OPINIONS but this is how I feel. I also will not be posting further comments or pictures until all of this has been settled and finalized. MILLER777 out Smokin'

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MILLERS MIND CANDY
miller777art
 
Posts: 100 | Location: MD | Registered: April 27, 2006Report This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of X
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Is Scott the only artist on here who 'gets' it? Roll Eyes

I get the feeling that artists are surprised at this so called 'backlash' because so many people post positive comments about the random work artists post. But lets stop being naive for 5 minutes; how muck criticism do you really expect?
If I don't like _____ ______'s art I wouldn't dream of saying "sorry that looks rubbish" that would be, a) rude, and b) spark comments like "so you think you can do better?" Like Cat said to me in another thread artists don't ask to be praised, but do you really think criticism of any variety would be well recieved? Of course the presence of the artist will appear rose-tinted to them: your fans will praise you and most likely your critics will extend you the courtesy of being polite by turning a blind eye. Thats what I do anyway. I am well aware that I am part of the 'Vocal Few' but I can honestly say that I have NEVER criticised an artists work or talent in any thread.

Yet just the other day I said (in another thread) that Topps overload their products with sketches because it is easier for them to pay artists that want or need to exposure. Which I believe is a fair and valid point. I would not call that slagging off Topps or the artists involved yet I then have to deal with Miss Staggs calling me out over my preference for autograph cards. This I beleive is unaccpetable and quite intolerable. With all the butt-kissing that goes on in particular threads it seems that because of their artistic prowess, certain artists deify themselves to such a degree that their opinions as a part of the process, supercede the opinions of the people actually collecting the cards! To be honest I can do without the hassle. Hostility between artists and collectors is by no means a one-way-street.

Artistic credentials or the place of the artist within the non-sport hobby is not what is being debated, but their place within the COMMUNITY, which is why even if I like an artists work I will hardly (if ever) compliment their work because I do not want the encourage the trends occuring on the boards at the moment. It can be dressed up any way you want but there are too many 'Look at me and my art' threads flooding the General Discussion area and occasionally News & Rumours.

Artists please get ready for this: This is NON-SPORT UPDATE and I come here to discuss NON-SPORT TRADING CARDS.

People seem to misconstrue my comments becasue I am not the biggest sketch card fan, and whilst this is true, I do own both pack-pulled sketchs and commissions. Shock-horror! Eek. I like sketch cards and I think they are beneficial for this hobby. That said, the artists themselves are definately important: as is their work and their thoughts on the trading card sets that they are a part of.
Please read that last sentence again: '...the trading card sets that they are a part of'. Posting general and random art is what is annoying here. It has absolutely nothing to do with the the cards I collect. This is not an art-site: it is non-sport update. Art cut to size does not equal a non-sport card.

I do have one question for the artists on here: Why do you share your work here?

Is it for reassurance? To show off? To increase your fan-base? To get work from card companies? To get work through commissions? Because you want to talk to your fans? Becuase you think your fans may appreciate it?
I'm sure many artists reading this may be thinking "Why should I have to explain myself?" And the truth is that you don't! But whatever your reason please don't think anyone naive enough to ingore the possibilities. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hold it against anyone if it was for any or all of the reasons above. But if you are showing artwork not related to trading card sets, this is to me, the the same as advertising. If you post a message in a thread, "Here are some commissions I've just done" the implication that you are available for jobs is there, intentional or not.

If you are in it for advertising then the paid area is definately the way to go. If you are not, then by all means, please share the art you have done for a card set you have worked on, your input is invaluable. Nobody is trying to exclude the artists; just categorise their work into relevant sections. Oh the furoar! Roll Eyes
 
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