quote:

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Originally posted by Cyberbats:
"I think we are all aware that the card and comic collector base is shrinking..."

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I'm sorry, but I thought you meant that the hobby is in a decline. Sincere apologies, Keith.

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Originally posted by mykdude:

I guess I would veiw this just the opposite. Topps lack of attention to detail, poor website navigation with a latency in updates and questionable customer service is just bad management and has nothing to do with their size. .

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I am surprised by Topps. They had a head start on everybody, but seem to have lulled themselves into an egocentric complacency and have been overtaken by the newer companies.

Topps have the football (soccer) license in the UK and their releases are poor (and thats being kind) compared to similar licenses held for La Liga in Spain and Calcio in Italy. Even the German, Dutch and French leagues are better served than the English Premiership.

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Originally posted by Cyberbats:
I am surprised by Topps. They had a head start on everybody, but seem to have lulled themselves into an egocentric complacency and have been overtaken by the newer companies.

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Have they?

Two of the largest releases of last year were Topps. Two of the biggest sellers last year were Topps. I would argue that Topps products don't lose their value as quickly as the other 'newer' companies, and although they may not innovate to the same extent, they're still making more moolah, and in the end that's what matters if you want to stay in business, not how innovative you are. In fact, I suspect this year we may see that innovation begins to fall by the wayside, in favour of sets that sell first and keep their value second...

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Originally posted by xSaBx:
Have they?

Two of the largest releases of last year were Topps. Two of the biggest sellers last year were Topps. I would argue that Topps products don't lose their value as quickly as the other 'newer' companies.

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I would suggest to you that over the last 5-10 years, my analysis stands.

To address your points directly -

(1) The Lord Of The Rings were bound to be best sellers, whoever released them and whatever quality they were.

(2) In terms of your assertion about Topps product holding its value better than other companies - Star Wars and X-Files releases were almost without exception dumped/closed-out. You can even get Garbage Pail Kids cases relatively cheap !

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Originally posted by Cyberbats:
In terms of your assertion about Topps product holding its value better than other companies - Star Wars and X-Files releases were almost without exception dumped/closed-out.

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However, Star Wars sets are beginning to climb in value again. X Files suffered in the UK because of the 'cheap' Merlin reprints, but the original boxes are beginning to rise in price too. Dumping is not an indicator of low value, it's just a way for the company to shift stock and minimise loss. Plus, a lot of dumped product ends up being pulped, which after 10 years will make a common product far less so.

Personally, I'd probably make a lot more money selling vintage Topps Star Wars now than I'd ever make selling the Heritage cards in the current marketplace... basic sets only, no inserts, remember...? That's the true value of the set, that the basic cards really are worth something, and it doesn't matter how many levels of chase or sketches you cram into them...

Working on that theory, I'd say Topps will carry on as they always have...

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Originally posted by xSaBx:
basic sets only, no inserts, remember...? That's the true value of the set, that the basic cards really are worth something, and it doesn't matter how many levels of chase or sketches you cram into them...

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Though I disagree with you on the original points made about Topps 'supremacy', I wholeheartedly agree with you on the point highlighted above.

I think its a shame how the focus on chase/premium inserts has detracted in many ways from the basic set.

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Originally posted by Cyberbats:
I think its a shame how the focus on chase/premium inserts has detracted in many ways from the basic set.

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*That's* where Topps keeps winning, year after year. Just look at what cards go for when they're released from the Topps Vault: in most cases these aren't autographs or chase sets, they're basic cards, test sheets from releases where there wasn't an insert to be found.

If we're talking about a true supremacy, then there's the number of years in business, added to what the total output is worth over time. Yes, there's a lot of waste out there with Topps' name on it, but there's an increasing amount of solid gold for an 'investor', and in a collectibles market which is often played as ruthlessly as the Stock Market, you get more bang for your buck with that kind of commodity.

Yes, as cosseted collectors in here we may not like the way Topps do business, and it may smack ruthlessly of xenophobia and egotism a lot of the time, but the fact remains they have been in business longer than ANYONE else. In the Land of the Free and the rapidly decreasing dollar, this does seem to count for a lot...

WAAY back on page 3 of this thread, someone talked about tv ads - well this past week on television was a bonanza for trading cards

Everyone is always asking about advertising trading cards on tv - well, this
week it seems, some companies got a little 'free' advertising.

The other night on American Idol some (bad, really bad) contestant showed off his album full of American Idol trading cards from Fleer - flipped through several pages while the camera watched.

and on Behind the Stargate: Secrets Revealed, Rainbow Sun Franks showed off his two Stargate: Atlantis trading cards

How cool is that? Maybe someone will have seen that, say "What the heck are those" and go off to find out more about trading cards.

And for those of you wondering, YES, I watch a LOT of TV. My TiVo system is full and I've got something like 6 hours on tonight alone.

That was me that asked about tv ads.

I assume the things you mentioned would not have been seen by most people. Having said that it is better than nothing.

Why don,t companies run tv ads? Is it purely down to the cost?

I assume they would have been seen by quite a few people. I believe that episode of American Idol was the most watched show of the evening.

And yes - unless you've got a couple million dollars lying around you'd like to donate, I think it does come down to cost.

Just one study I read said :According to Optimum Media, in the third quarter of 1999, a 30-second commercial on U.S. network television cost $190,000 in prime time.

and that was in 1999 - costs have increased, I'm sure, since then

I saw the contestant with those American Idol cards also. I thought...that's something I don't see every day, non-sports cards on tv. Cool!

Tim

I just think the non sport product isnt varied enough to attract the addicts of the future. Innovation seems low on companies agendas, it seems more of a franchise/guaranteed money chasing excercise.

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Originally posted by DavidJohnston:
Innovation seems low on companies agendas, it seems more of a franchise/guaranteed money chasing excercise.

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Controversial.

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Originally posted by wolfman-golf:
Controversial.

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However, not without a foundation in truth...

What are we getting this year that is *really* new or different from any of the Majors...?

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Originally posted by xSaBx:

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Originally posted by wolfman-golf:
Controversial.

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However, not without a foundation in truth...

What are we getting this year that is *really* new or different from any of the Majors...?

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How about Topps Chronicles?
"Family Guy"? Sopranos? and thats just one company - there are lots of different and new or OLD things coming out or back around, like a Zorro sets and a new Universal Monsters set from Artbox, D-Day from RiverWye, Lost In Space from RA

good stuff

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Originally posted by mtlhddoc2:
good stuff

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I wasn't talking about the licenses, I was talking about innovation (as I believe David was as well) The Chronicles set is the only *really* innovative set in that lot, but hardly World-beating...

well, I do think we have gotten a bit spoiled here Sarah, innovation, well, the last 2 years, in my opinion, RA, Inkworks and Artbox have been extreme innovators (ink not so much as the other 2) - we have gotten Micro-Cell Cards, T3 Liquid Cards, Dual Costumes, Costume Auto combos, CD Cards, International variations, Artbox has done a great job with prop cards and their unique motion cards (which get better with every release) FilmCells too, nice stuff, how much more innovative can they really be?

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Originally posted by mtlhddoc2:
how much more innovative can they really be?

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There are some good ideas in another thread, as I recall... or they could take a chance and *stop* the constant flow of super-duper cards and make something really limited. Kennywood suggested we might appreciate a return to the days of 'less is more' and with the obsession with the extras, not doing so many could be considered an innovation...

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Originally posted by xSaBx:

quote:

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Originally posted by mtlhddoc2:
how much more innovative can they really be?

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There are some good ideas in another thread, as I recall... or they could take a chance and *stop* the constant flow of super-duper cards and make something really limited. Kennywood suggested we might appreciate a return to the days of 'less is more' and with the obsession with the extras, not doing so many could be considered an innovation...

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I wholeheartedly agree with that senitment. Less is more.

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Originally posted by mtlhddoc2:
I wholeheartedly agree with that senitment. Less is more.

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You mean like we need more inserts numbered 1 of 1?



Mark