I'm guessing the studio had Margot Robbie signed up to a multi picture deal and they had to use her for something. The thing about The Suicide Squad and the Harley Quinn character herself is that it has to be about graphic, violent, sexual and generally unsavory anti-hero type behavior. All things that get you an "R" rated film.

Right there you are losing the biggest part of what is supposed to be the comic book hero audience. No family night, no young children. Its slicing up the mass audience that you need to make a blockbuster box office. All you have is the fanboys, if they like it, because most of these characters are not even known as mainstream names for people who didn't go passed Batman and Superman and Captain America. That's why these films where the bad guys are the better guys are a genre within a genre and they aren't going to sell like the noble Avengers or Justice League.

Aside from Aquaman, the first Wonder Woman (not the second) and to a lesser extent the Shazam movie, all of these recent DC Comics movies have not been huge hits. Maybe 2022 will be better with The Batman, Flash, and Aquaman 2.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
All you have is the fanboys, if they like it, because most of these characters are not even known as mainstream names for people who didn't go passed Batman and Superman and Captain America.

I think that is pretty much it when it comes to needing at least 15 or 20 million people to go see your movie. Personally I like Robbie as HQ and thought she was the stand out character. I even liked the Birds movie. Problem is she started in a kids show and then took 20 years to develop. Even though the character is nearly 30 years old the version we get in the films is only 10. Still, I think most of DC's struggles are in the story department and not character development.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Why do they keep making these Harley Quinn/Suicide Squad movies ? Isn't this like the third one ?

The second one ("Birds of Prey") cost at least 100 M to make and it grossed 200 M, and yet they brought Quinn back again.

It may not have made a billion but if your numbers are correct they doubled their investment, so there's your answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Why do they keep making these Harley Quinn/Suicide Squad movies ? Isn't this like the third one ?

The second one ("Birds of Prey") cost at least 100 M to make and it grossed 200 M, and yet they brought Quinn back again.

It may not have made a billion but if your numbers are correct they doubled their investment, so there's your answer.

The studios/distributors do not get 100% of the ticket price, it varies due to country/cinema/time, but it is more like 50%, the rest goes to the cinema/staff/taxes. With advertising usually in the several tens of million dollars, a $100m film is likely to need $250-300m to break even.

Yeah Birds of Prey lost money and because of studio expectations of a hit, really bombed. But I think the studio was to blame for a lot of it and should have known better. I haven't seen the film, so I'm just talking about the marketing and promotion.

It was released in early February 2020, so it got out just before COVID really effected movie theatres in the US. I remember seeing a panel full of the actresses doing publicity on The View when it opened.

First thing wrong was a confusing title. "Birds of Prey" was a TV show and I thought there was also something else with that title, but I can't find it now. The whole name on the box is "Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)", but I don't remember even seeing that extra part at the time. "Birds of Prey" by itself gave no indication of being a Harley Quinn movie or anything building off of Suicide Squad, which was no big hit itself.

Then the publicity seemed to center on it being a feminist film with all these strong female characters, without explaining who they were or if this was a crime drama or a superhero story. The stars were talking it up like it was "The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants".

Then the film was rated "R" and right there they lost a good portion of an audience that might go see it, if they could figure out what it was.

I think it was just one of those projects that wanted to be too many things and wasn't enough to appeal to any particular taste. I don't feel as I ever have to waste a couple of hours on it, although its probably no worse than lots of stuff I've watched.

I could be wrong, but I think years ago there was a comic book series (perhaps a few) and a short lived TV show with the Birds of Prey title, but it was about Black Canary, Batgirl and Huntress. Had nothing to do with Harley Quinn.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David R,

So here's the reason why we won't be seeing the end to superhero movies any time soon.

The Eternals ranked up 71M domestically and 161M worldwide on opening weekend. This without China and a handful of other countries that have banned it. I don't know how much it cost or when it breaks even, but unless it disappears in the next two weeks, its making money. Going by its ending and final extra credits Disney plans to suck this one dry in sending out characters to inhabit more of their own films too.

Not bad for a movie that's been called the worst reviewed film in the MCU.

I haven't changed my mind. I think the whole story sounds dreadful and I have zero interest in seeing it for lots of reasons, but you can't argue with ticket sales. People are going to see almost ALL these MCU films no matter what or who they are. They may not like them and viewers often criticize them afterwards, but they still spend their money to see them. DC has not faired quite as well, but is also doing enough to keep it going on a smaller scale.

This idea of having built in audiences for franchise titles has never been more true and they will all ride that horse until it drops, but Disney in particular has the most money to invest and will outlast everyone else.

Even if "Eternals" is subpar (I haven't seen it yet), Disney has the Hawkeye show on Disney+ imminent to make people forget all about it, along with highly anticipated Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies in rapid succession to follow, so yeah, they're sitting pretty.

Eternals is unusual where the source material is concerned. Where nearly all of the other properties adapted so far featured characters developed by a writer, the Eternals are from Jack Kirby, a legendary, influential artist (and co-creator of some of the big names), but not really a writer. Since the characters were created 45 years ago, Marvel has really only dabbled with them in the comics, just the short-lived (less than two years) original series in the mid 70's and only a few miniseries in the decades since.

The sheer number of already existing characters Marvel has yet to tap for adaptations is mind-boggling. If "Eternals" ultimately doesn't lead to hit sequels and spin-offs like "Avengers" did, they still have plenty of other teams they can try.

I don't know if I would call "Batman Animated" a kid's show. The visuals have an old movie look with better dialogue than many live-action shows so it has always seemed more geared to adults though kids would like it too without necessarily recognizing the style. I thought the first movie, "Mask of the Phantasm" was more psychologically-complex than expected.

A friend and I agreed that the Harley Quinn of the movies is a poor translation of the TV animated character. On the TV show, she's clever and sinister in a deceptively-harmless looking costume. In the movies she looks like a bratty party girl.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
All you have is the fanboys, if they like it, because most of these characters are not even known as mainstream names for people who didn't go passed Batman and Superman and Captain America.

I think that is pretty much it when it comes to needing at least 15 or 20 million people to go see your movie. Personally I like Robbie as HQ and thought she was the stand out character. I even liked the Birds movie. Problem is she started in a kids show and then took 20 years to develop. Even though the character is nearly 30 years old the version we get in the films is only 10. Still, I think most of DC's struggles are in the story department and not character development.

Yeah, I guess being on the Fox KIDS channel and placed in a time slot for kids to watch it is a bit misleading. Point being that Harley Quinn went through development phases to get where she is today.

"Eternals" debuted at 71 M domestically, so it should be in the Top 10 by this coming weekend, and it might end up in the Top 5 or 6 by the end of the year.

What other big films are coming in 2021 ? Just the next Spider-Man and Ghostbusters movie, that I am aware of. Oh, and Matrix 4 is also coming in late Dec.

Looks like that by Dec 31, the Top 5 might ALL be Marvel movies !

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
"Eternals" debuted at 71 M domestically, so it should be in the Top 10 by this coming weekend, and it might end up in the Top 5 or 6 by the end of the year.

What other big films are coming in 2021 ? Just the next Spider-Man and Ghostbusters movie, that I am aware of

Looks like that by Dec 31, the Top 5 might ALL be Marvel movies !

The Matrix is the only other one I can think of with any potential. Both that and Spiderman will obviously roll into 2022 counts.

Apparently "Snake Eyes", the latest G.I. Joe movie, which came out in the USA this summer, opened in China the other day and bombed there, grossing a mere 1.5 M. And no one knows why.

Domestically, "Venom 2" is now up to # 2 for the year, grossing more than 198 M, beating "Black Widow" at 183 M.

Shang-Chi is still # 1 at 224 M.

Eternals is up to # 12 at 85 M so far.

Remember the days when audience word of mouth actually meant something to the success of a movie?

A serious byproduct of the internet age and of the majority of new movies being connected to Marvel or DC or other franchise titles, is that no one waits to see if its any good. They just go on the first weekend or stream as soon as it arrives. The films rack up good money and then they fall off a cliff instead of gaining momentum.

The Eternals box office dropped 73% from opening weekend in the second week. It's like Black Widow that came out strong with good reviews and good money, although it turned out afterwards that a lot of viewers really didn't like it very much. Now The Eternals came out strong with good money and bad reviews, but now there seems to be some disappointment in Disney with the box office.

Instead of people rejecting the false hype, they are just becoming even more influenced by it. When is a major film going to make more in its second week than it does in its first?

I suspect that in the end, 4 of the 5 top films of 2021 will be by Marvel, once Spider-Man comes out in December.

Dune is stuck at # 13, by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Instead of people rejecting the false hype, they are just becoming even more influenced by it. When is a major film going to make more in its second week than it does in its first?

Like that time when Titanic just.....wouldn't....go.....away!

The whole Dune thing and the green lit sequel just amazes me. It's not like WB has been knocking films out of the box office park over the past few years.

I would think that anyone in China who wants to see Snake Eyes would have manged to see it by now. Jungle Cruise hits the market this weekend....will be interesting to see the results.

"Venom 2" has now passed 200 M at the U.S. box office and "Eternals" has done well, up to the # 8 position domestically for the year and about to pass "Free Guy" to become # 7.

The powers that be at Marvel must be very pleased with 2021.

On the international front, the latest Bond film is only 10 M away from being the # 1 non-Chinese movie of the year, worldwide, in terms of money made.

In another few days, the Top 10 (non-U.S.) will look like this, not counting Chinese movies:

1) No Time to Die
2) Fast and Furious 9
3) Godzilla vs. Kong
4) Venom 2
5) Shang Chi
6) Black Widow
7) Dune
8) Free Guy
9) A Quiet Place 2
10) Eternals

As you can see, Dune is doing much better worldwide than in the U.S.