I really liked it too. And when I did, the few people there were quiet and respectful. My brother saw it today and the people in front of him (at a 10AM matinee yet), acted like total idiots, using their cell phones repeatedly and talking loudly.

I saw it and liked it very much also. There is zero fun to be had in this movie though. So it is odd to see a movie this dark and this bleak (many would call it depressing) become somewhat of a blockbuster.

Joker has made 218 M in the U.S. so far, and almost 611 M worldwide

Not bad for a 55 M investment !

I saw it. I can admire the cinematography and the acting but overall one can break down the story to "everything is bad, so you might as well join them in being bad or worse" is such a bleak worldview that I could not enjoy it.

Was it more depressing than "Taxi Driver" (1976), which no doubt inspired it ?

Having viewed the '76 film several times in the 1990s on video, I can say that for me, that was the ultimate depressing movie. And I can certainly see how folks with issues, might go "over the edge", and get "ideas" in their head from watching it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Was it more depressing than "Taxi Driver" (1976), which no doubt inspired it ?

Having viewed the '76 film several times in the 1990s on video, I can say that for me, that was the ultimate depressing movie. And I can certainly see how folks with issues, might go "over the edge", and get "ideas" in their head from watching it.

Granted, it has been over 2 decades since I saw Taxi Driver and my memory is that I felt about the same, it was a well made film that ultimately was an unpleasant view.

Personally, I found TAXI DRIVER and JOKER entertaining, and not depressing in the least. They instilled no desire at all in me to perform evil acts on myself or others. In fact, just the opposite. My one regret are my personal feelings about Robert De Niro, who I always (and still do), consider a great actor. However, his recent actions grate against my sensibilities. If I had known he was in JOKER I might not have gone to see it. I try to keep politics out of my movie going, but sometimes I just can not do it, much to my regret. For that reason I will never see THE POST. Anyway, the only movie that ever depressed me is THE HUMAN CENTIPEDE, and if it was possible to have that memory erased from my mind, I would gladly pay to do it.

I find that many recent films, as well as TV shows, could be called unpleasant because we are asked to accept main characters that are beyond just being normally flawed individuals. They are criminals, they are psychotics, they are egomaniacs, they are incredibly stupid and they are truly lousy human beings. Yet they are the ones we are supposed to care about among what we are presented as being a cruel and unforgiving world.

Talk about depressing, even the super heroes have to be dark and tortured. It used to be called entertainment for a reason, but now it all must be relevant and thought provoking. Not saying that the thoughts will make you worse off though.

Yeah, I'm not into depressing movies or those that feel the need to make established characters like Superman or Luke Skywalker more edgy. You already have an edgy hero in Batman. Don't change Superman and Luke into other kinds of people. There are real heroes out there who jump into a river to try to save some kid that fell in or run into a burning building to make sure everyone got out with the fire department still minutes away.

I'm not saying that you can't have a story with Luke struggling with another moral dilemma connected to a larger conflict but don't write him as hiding in self-exile while his sister and friends are in trouble. It was a nice scene with him and R2D2, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I find that many recent films, as well as TV shows, could be called unpleasant because we are asked to accept main characters that are beyond just being normally flawed individuals. They are criminals, they are psychotics, they are egomaniacs, they are incredibly stupid and they are truly lousy human beings. Yet they are the ones we are supposed to care about among what we are presented as being a cruel and unforgiving world.

Wow! You should watch Animal Kingdom. I keep knocking myself back to reality with the question....Why am I rooting for these murderers and thieves?

If you went to the cinema to watch nice people doing nice things in a nice lovely world you would be bored out of your brain.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
If you went to the cinema to watch nice people doing nice things in a nice lovely world you would be bored out of your brain.

I disagree. Disney seems to have built an empire on that very thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Kennywood:

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
If you went to the cinema to watch nice people doing nice things in a nice lovely world you would be bored out of your brain.

I disagree. Disney seems to have built an empire on that very thing.

Ooh i don't know, if you look behind the sugary coating some of the Disney is very dark indeed.

30 years ago when I was in college, around 1990, I wrote an article in the school newspaper, asking why do pop musicians feel a need to produce music that is so downbeat and depressing ?

For example, in the 1950s and early 60s, most pop songs were upbeat, boy meets girl songs

Beginning around 1965, the "folk singers", felt a need to produce music that involved the issues of the day-- Civil Rights, Vietnam, etc., and then all of a sudden, everyone HAD to put out songs that had deep meaning, that addressed the problems of the day, and were depressing.

So circa 1965 you saw the songs of The Beatles, the Beach Boys, etc. change dramatically. It became obligatory to sing about "the issues", whatever they were. Boy meets girl songs became old fashioned

When I wrote the article, the whole world jumped all over me, saying that I had my head in the sand.

That's the way so many comics and comic related movies have been for the past 25-30 years, so it seems.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tommy C,

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
Ooh i don't know, if you look behind the sugary coating some of the Disney is very dark indeed.

They say Walt Disney actually hated children and I can believe it!

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:

So circa 1965 you saw the songs of The Beatles, the Beach Boys, etc. change dramatically. It became obligatory to sing about "the issues", whatever they were. Boy meets girl songs became old fashioned

Not that boy meets girl or other relationship type love songs have ever really left.

I think two things happen. 1. Artists get tired of doing the same thing over and over. 2. The hypocrisy finally catches up to you.

I find it amusing singers known for "forever love" songs while working on their 5th marriage. Lennon preaches that the world should figure it out and be as one when the dude couldn't even keep his own band together.

Certainly nothing wrong with expressing what is going on in the world. I think the biggest danger of it is when people (fans) use it as a sole source for their understanding the subject. Songs and movies often over simplify or edit for content in mass quantities. This includes both bad and good things going on.

You mentioned comics but comics where is a serious rut up until the 90's or so. The ideas needed some layering and formulas needed to be broken. Often going down the dark side gives a big room of ideas to explore.

You mentioned John Lennon

Amusing that his 1971 song "Imagine" longed for no possessions, no greed, nothing to fight over, etc., and yet the man had 800 M in the bank

Another example of an "artist" preaching to the masses, but not living the lifestyle which he advocates !

Another example is Kurt Vonnegut, who made fun of the stock market, among other organizations, yet invested heavily in stocks for his income.

But he was still a great writer.

Hypocrisy is everywhere, throw a dart and you'll hit someone. It seems to be human nature to believe in something until it applies to you. No one is more concerned for the well being of the common man than the elites.

There's that old joke, "Why do the rich only marry the rich?"

"It's the only people they know."

Not to pick on Lennon, but there was another quote from him that I loved:

In 1972, Richard Nixon was re-elected President with about 61 % of the popular vote

John Lennon said that he didn't understand how he won, as he didn't know anyone who voted for him. And he did NOT say that as a joke.