I know that may seem like a foolish question, given the fact that there are more Marvel based TV shows on Disney+ then ever and lots of Marvel multiverse movies in production or scheduled for release. They have to be hits for Disney and making tons of money, at least from the fanbase, or it wouldn't be a steady drumbeat of titles for major and minor Marvel characters.

But here's the thing for me as a casual watcher of selected Marvel entertainment, I am so lost that I don't want to even see another TV series or movie with any of these characters. I don't know where in the multiverse we are, what time it is, who is dead or alive or came back from being dead, who is a hero or a villain, what is actually happening or is just imaginary or could happen or did happen before it was all changed and really didn't happen at all.

What is the point of watching something that is so complex and interwoven, while getting even worse as the writers try to weave in modern themes and social agendas that may or may not have been hinted at in children's superheroes? Yes I'm talking specifically about WandaVision, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Loki and the next Black Widow. All entertainment that I used to like and would try, if I didn't need to be an expert on Marvel history and I didn't read all these articles that have to explain what I'm supposed to be seeing.

So I do think that Disney has killed Marvel for me. I don't know how much in the minority I am, or if its a majority that just doesn't want to say anything. Doesn't matter, I'm off all of it either way, but the thread is open for all other opinions.

Totally agree, I'm kind of at the point where I'm so over superhero movies or TV shows, be they Marvel or DC.
So, I just don't care about the next one, whatever that happens to be. They're too intricate, walk all over their own mythology and to understand one movie or show requires seeing ten others. And even to try to go back and watch one on a free evening doesn't work that well because of the characters floating around in each other's movies in various timelines, making hardly any of the movies something you can just watch one of.

I thought I might just stick to Wonder Woman, but after that second waste of time of a movie, even that makes me feel 'meh' now.
I really liked Loki, but I can't find any motivation to search out my usual "little place" to watch the series.

For me, Marvel or DC have become the dead horse that has been well and truly flogged... But I'm sure the fan base for either will keep them going for a while yet. Then there will be the people that feel bored with it all too, but watch everything still due to habit and/or loyalty to the franchises.

Disney didn't learn its lesson with Star Wars solo movies, specifically "Solo". They've completely saturated the market with both Star Wars and Marvel. They paid HUGE money for both, so it seems they're trying to recoup their money ASAP.

To be fair, Disney+ and the theatrical release of the movies are pretty much the only sources of income for Disney. During the pandemic, the Disney Cruise line was stuck in port and the theme parks were practically shut down.

As for Star Wars, Disney has a mess on their hands. They've actually managed to LOSE money with Star Wars. Kathleen Kennedy's proverbial head on the chopping block and various reports say that the axe has fallen. Her current contract ends October 31st and it's said that Disney is not going to renew it. Word is that Jon Favreau is being looked at as the new head of the Star Wars universe. (There's even talk of George Lucas coming back in some limited capacity.)

Did the pandemic hurt Disney? Of course it did. But right now, Disney is their own, worst enemy. I'm not sure how their going to right the ship.

I've seen some of the Marvel movies. I liked the Iron Man movies though the second one wasn't as good as the first one. It had to have that story where the hero stumbles and doesn't want to be a hero. I saw the first Endgame movie but not the second one but have seen the Spider-Man that takes place right after that. Last week, I saw "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" for the first time so I'm just watching what's in front of me without reading up on where it is in the interdimensional timeline and who died in the movie before.

The problem with Marvel is the superheroes have defeated terrorists, super-villains, then aliens, and then alien super-villains trying to take over the universe. Can you go back to stopping bank robbers after that? Who else is there to fight? Interdimensional bank robbers?

I thought "The Force Awakens" was okay but the second one was the worst Star Wars movie ever made. The third one was hamstrung by the story of the second one and the dumb idea of Palpatine somehow surviving a drop down a reactor shaft and getting off Death Star #2 before it blew. Meanwhile, "The Mandalorian" has been fantastic. Somebody finally gets "Star Wars." You just need a guiding hand who understands characters and wants to put them in interesting situations with good writing. Look at what Nicholas Meyer did with Star Trek in the 80's. Look at what Christopher Nolan did with Batman. Favreau is another writer/director who's always had a feeling for characters. People talk about "Swingers" but I thought "Made" was even better.

Jess

Spent all day at Disneyland yesterday, the new
"Avengers Campus" within it being one of the highlights of the trip.

Based on how much Marvel gear pretty much every kid in the place was decked out in, I'm pretty sure the next generation (or two) of Marvel die-hards has already been fostered.

Watched the premiere of the new "Loki" show on Disney+ last night when we got home. Another excellent show this is, following on the heels of the first two.

Received my monthly comic pre-order box today, about 30 books in there, with nearly half of them bearing the Marvel logo.

Other companies only wish they could "kill" their properties the way Disney is "killing" Marvel.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:


But here's the thing for me as a casual watcher of selected Marvel entertainment, I am so lost that I don't want to even see another TV series or movie with any of these characters. I don't know where in the multiverse we are, what time it is, who is dead or alive or came back from being dead, who is a hero or a villain, what is actually happening or is just imaginary or could happen or did happen before it was all changed and really didn't happen at all.

What is the point of watching something that is so complex and interwoven, while getting even worse as the writers try to weave in modern themes and social agendas that may or may not have been hinted at in children's superheroes?

I remember when the comic books flipped into this convoluted multi title crossover mess that basically sent readers on a monthly hunt for the various books that kept the story going. Fortunately for me I had more important things going on and pretty much abandoned the effort.

At least with the films and shows there is time in between to casually absorb what is going on. The stories are generally engaging, the characters are watchable and the effects are truly comic books on screen.

I do get that some viewer types prefer things a bit more simplified and that some things should be able to stand on their own. Today there are fan sites to tell us the order in which to watch everything. One day I will try it. Has Disney killed Marvel? Who knows? There were times when I thought that Marvel was trying to kill Marvel. For right now all I can say is they have certainly re-invented it.

Overarching storylines that jump across various titles, for months on end, is nothing new in the world of comic books. The movies and tv series are playing out similarly. You don't have to read every issue or see every movie if you don't want, but there might be something you miss. I still haven't seen Iron Man 3 and really have no idea what happens in it, but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying everything after it.

Admittedly comic fans have a leg up on casual viewers as we know the characters already. When they call each other by their real names we know who they're referring to, but I can see how it gets confusing to Joe Public.

To Kennywood's point above, has Disney actually lost money on Star Wars? Taking out production costs and what they spent to acquire Star Wars, my math shows they've made about $1.4 billion.

Yes, if you take out expenses, pretty much any business is profitable. It's those pesky expenses that determine profitability.

The dear old BBC jumped on the multi-crossover bandwaggon recently with Doctor Who when they released the Timelord Victorious nonsense. To follow the complete storyline you had to buy comics, books, audio adventures and DVDs.

https://www.doctorwho.tv/time-lord-victorious/

I just gave the whole thing a miss, even though I am a big Dcotor Who fan, as it was clearly just a big money grab to generate income while the TV series was off.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
Based on how much Marvel gear pretty much every kid in the place was decked out in, I'm pretty sure the next generation (or two) of Marvel die-hards has already been fostered.

My 11-year daughter talks about the Marvel Cinematic Universe constantly.

She just finished rewatching “WandaVision” today and she enjoyed discovering some of the little Easter eggs that she missed the first time.
When she watched “The Falcon and The Winter Solider” she went back and rewatched the three Captain America movies.
Yesterday she watched Loki and noticed some clues that could refer to WandaVision and the upcoming Doctor Strange movie.

Sure, she enjoys watching each individual show and movie but she gets a kick out of the interconnection, too. It just add another layer to the story like seeing the kid from Iron Man 2 on a poster in the Web Slinger ride queue in Avengers Campus.

I blame Howard the Duck.

I'm in the extreme minority but I loved "Howard the Duck". I took it for what it was - a mindless, funny, campy comedy.

Phil Blumburtt: DUCK!

Howard T. Duck: And proud of it!

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
Based on how much Marvel gear pretty much every kid in the place was decked out in, I'm pretty sure the next generation (or two) of Marvel die-hards has already been fostered.

My 11-year daughter talks about the Marvel Cinematic Universe constantly.

She just finished rewatching “WandaVision” today and she enjoyed discovering some of the little Easter eggs that she missed the first time.
When she watched “The Falcon and The Winter Solider” she went back and rewatched the three Captain America movies.
Yesterday she watched Loki and noticed some clues that could refer to WandaVision and the upcoming Doctor Strange movie.

Sure, she enjoys watching each individual show and movie but she gets a kick out of the interconnection, too. It just add another layer to the story like seeing the kid from Iron Man 2 on a poster in the Web Slinger ride queue in Avengers Campus.

I was about her age the first time Marvel Comics teamed up their characters in a full, line-wide fashion with a quick 3 issue series called "Contest of Champions". That was slightly before my time as a regular Marvel reader, but a couple of years later, when the year-long 12 issue series "Secret Wars" hit, I was well-indoctrinated in the stories of the dozens of characters. You didn't have to know them all, but the more you did, the better it was.

"Secret Wars", far from a grand design, was actually made to sell action figures, but its success immediately created a new formula for Marvel, and a very simple one: let's get all our heroes (and even villains) teamed up against the biggest menace possible. It still happens in the comics almost every year as a company-wide event series in the summer. If CGI special effects didn't take so long to create, it would happen every year in the MCU movies/TV, too, I think.

That early 80's period, along with the original 60's era when these inter-connected characters were first introduced, are the blueprints for the current movie series. They were, for kids of those eras, very much like the current movie series for kids of today. At that age, it's really fun to follow along as a little world is built and be able to learn more and more about it even as the story unfolds before your eyes. They don't have junk like work and mortgage payments taking up the brain space where one holds things like that.

There was a monthly index comic that came out shortly before "Secret Wars", 12 text-laden issues that had the complete histories of pretty much all Marvel characters for their first 20+ years, and we devoured those. The internet allows the new fans exponentially more access to the histories of their favorite characters than previous generations had, and that's crucial to their continued popularity.

The purchase, at bargain prices, of the library of the characters and their histories from both the Marvel Comics and Star Wars universes has only begun to reap the treasure for Disney that it ultimately will. They have an immense amount of source material as yet untapped for live-action adaptations, and the current writers of Marvel comics put out a big new stack of it every month.

chesspieceface, while multi-part crossover stories aren't/haven't been part of the MCU they are pretty much an annual fixture for the DC/Arrowverse TV shows. Last years 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' spanned five episodes and series. COVID has put paid to that happening this year though.

quote:

Originally posted by Kennywood:
I'm in the extreme minority but I loved "Howard the Duck". I took it for what it was - a mindless, funny, campy comedy.

Phil Blumburtt: DUCK!

Howard T. Duck: And proud of it!

I wasn't a big fan of the film mainly due to their decision to have a man in a duck suit playing the main character. It should have been animated like in 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit' But I really did enjoy reading the original Steve Gerber Marvel comics when they first came out. No longer a part of my collection though.

It feels that having interwoven plot points throughout the Marvel movies and now Disney+ series makes the experience more immersive as a fan of the MCU. Some of those interconnections might be rather subtle and really doesn’t take away from the individual movie or series if you are just a casual fan and aren’t up to speed on every nuance, but if you are one of those “superfans” then the experience seems a bit more rewarding for your investing in the fandom.

Perhaps with the next wave of movies, characters, and shows like the “Eternals” and Shang Chi” or “Moon Knight” might have a little less connectivity to the previous MCU waves. It might make be a good restarting place to jump back on the MCU for some without having to be a living Marvel encyclopedia to keep up with all the connections that came before.

quote:

Originally posted by Kennywood:
I'm in the extreme minority but I loved "Howard the Duck". I took it for what it was - a mindless, funny, campy comedy.

Phil Blumburtt: DUCK!

Howard T. Duck: And proud of it!

Haha! My point exactly. I am a major Duck fan. Starting from his time dimension introduction through the first run of comics it was all over the place. Credit Card towers to rescue the Damsel in control, Canadian beaver monsters, running for President, a Star Wars Parody it was setting us up for the future of MARVEL.

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:
My 11-year daughter talks about the Marvel Cinematic Universe constantly.

. . . she enjoyed discovering some of the little Easter eggs that she missed the first time.

She probably would enjoy watching the various Marvel videos on the Screencrush youtube channel. My son is busy watching the Star Wars Bad Batch show, and we always catch the explanation of Easter Eggs that Screencrush does soon after each episode.

I personally am burned out with Marvel / Superhero content.

There have been some movies / shows that I've really enjoyed (Iron Man, Daredevil, Wolverine), but I have found many of them to be overly complicated, or some of them just aren't good (Iron Fist, Luke Cage). The last thing we watched was New Mutants, which was meh.

We dropped Disney plus after they fired Gina Carano so we haven't seen any of the new shows.

We actually haven't seen a lot of the Star Wars material. We enjoyed Rogue One, and were really liking Mandalorian. I can't say I've seen any other Star Wars Movie/TV produced after Phantom Menace.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:
My 11-year daughter talks about the Marvel Cinematic Universe constantly.

. . . she enjoyed discovering some of the little Easter eggs that she missed the first time.

She probably would enjoy watching the various Marvel videos on the Screencrush youtube channel. My son is busy watching the Star Wars Bad Batch show, and we always catch the explanation of Easter Eggs that Screencrush does soon after each episode.

Thanks for the tip! I’ll have to look into it as I like to see what others pick up from watching the shows.