We've sort of reached a point in non-sport cards where the hobby is splitting into 2 main groups.

Licenses that are (at least in some sets) collected on a character basis -- i.e. Marvel, Star Wars, Garbage Pail kids.

Licenses that are collected by set collectors -- most everything else.

Of course some Marvel/Star Wars and GPK sets are still produced for set collectors, but within those titles there are lots of people who pay a premium for specific characters.

Character collected sets are doing pretty well. Everything is is having a tough go of it.

Bond Black Diamond is an attempt to shift from a set based set to a character based set.

In regards to sets that are produced relatively simply -- Cardsmiths looks like a pretty straightforward production. It remains to be seen how well they will sell. I'm skeptical of the content/price point.

Also Marvel Unbound. This sells out ~2000 packs every Monday on ePack with 1 card per pack at $15. Here is what is in each Unbound's weekly release:

Your $15 pack will contain 1 of the following:

Base Card #'d to 999
Rainbow Parallel ~646 made
Canvas Parallel #'d to 299
Auto Parallel #'d to 50
Printing Plate 4 made
Sketch Card 1 made

This will sell out within an hour every Monday -- granted the Achievements play into the sales, but from a set perspective it doesn't get much simpler than this. 1 image produced by a sketch card artist (Fred.ian), and 1 sketch + 50 autographs produced.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The perception is that non-sport cards can be produced and marketed just like sports cards, but they are fundamentally different, and the collectors don't buy the same way.

I think the simple sign is when known production numbers (less than 300) take years to disappear then we know the audience is small.

Generally speaking, those would be common cards, or common signers, that have little demand as individual items. You could tie that directly into card collectors no longer having the ability to complete anything in recent card sets.

What once gave common cards on a checklist their value was that collectors were trying to complete that checklist. Therefore, all cards in that grouping had a certain minimum worth just because every one of them was needed to finish the checklist.

But once it became impossible to complete nearly all checklists because of the number of cards needed, or short printed, or the cost of top cards, collectors no longer had any use for common cards or common signers that had no demand on their own. The whole made the parts worth more, until there was no whole to make.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
We've sort of reached a point in non-sport cards where the hobby is splitting into 2 main groups.

Ever since the 1970's when US produced cards started to appear in the UK in greater numbers I have always understood that there was a difference in collecting traits between US and UK collectors. From your comments it is quite clear that manufacturers are now catering to those traits. As a card collector of long standing I am now concentrating more on the cards I started collecting many years ago. I cannot remember the last time I broke down a proper box and I have never ever acquired a case. The only boxes of cards I get these days are those where sets come complete in a set like some of the Kickstarter issues or those from Unstoppable or Perna studios. It looks as if my collecting of modern cards is on the way out. Fortunately I have still a lot of holes to fill with cards from yesteryear.

regards

John

FYI -- Bond Black Diamond is up for pre-order on a big seller's site for $300 a 'box'.

Box Hits:

[1] Autograph or Diamond Relic or Golden Nugget Card
[1] Exquisite Collection Card
[1] Tech card
[1] Manufactured Relic Card
[1] 007 Metal Array (unsigned) or 007 Metal Poster or Film Logo Relic Card
[1] Base Set Card

I guess ultimately this is close to the same price per hit as when several manufacturers were producing 'premium packs' with a single hit for $40-50.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
FYI -- Bond Black Diamond is up for pre-order on a big seller's site for $300 a 'box'.

So how much would a base cost? $300, $3,000 or more?

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
FYI -- Bond Black Diamond is up for pre-order on a big seller's site for $300 a 'box'.

So how much would a base cost? $300, $3,000 or more?

regards

John

I think it really depends on if people start collecting this as a set rather than by character.

Looking at Marvel Black Diamond base on COMC -- the cheapest base card is $17.50 the most expensive is $450. These are asking prices -- I'm not sure what the sales prices look like.

It should be noted that these prices were significantly inflated during/since the covid speculator wave. I'm not sure what they were pre-speculator.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

So how much would a base cost? $300, $3,000 or more?

regards

John

Well, if out of the 6 "hits" in the pack/box I was only interested in making a base set, I could technically say that the set cost me $30,000.

Or at $300 a pack/box I could say that each of the 6 "hits" would average out to $50 a piece, and then the base set would only cost a bargain of $5,000.

The thing is James Bond card collectors aren't buying 100 boxes of Black Diamond and the only "hit" that really counts in the pack/box is what you pull as an Autograph or Diamond Relic or Golden Nugget. If you pull a big card its worth it, but of course you have to then sell that card. The only way to justify buying a product like this is to sell whatever you don't like, don't want and will never complete and hope that what you do keep is worth what you spent.

Getting back to the base set, breakers will try to get $15 - $20 on each regular card and ask higher for better characters like the Bonds or some Bond girls. The Tech card may be close to the same thing, but they will want more for the others. If they do well selling what they got they can afford to discount the base cards to move them eventually. A lot of early activity will be flippers trying to out flip each other on the better "hits".

I wouldn't even venture to say what a complete base set will go for when the dust settles. I'm too far off with these ridiculous prices now. Marvel Black Diamond looks to be at a $1,200 minimum per pack/box now, but Marvel has more demand than Bond.

Bottom line is that Black Diamond isn't made to be consumed by average card collectors who want tp keep the cards. You can taste it, but it will have to be in small bites.