quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
Steve posted that RA HAS done this in the past with Star Trek (making an International set), but apparently no one noticed

I believe with the Star Trek set, it was stated in the original sell sheet that they were making US and UK cases. I also believe that distributors/dealers/wholesalers were able to purchase both versions. There might have been a formula for how many you could get depending on where you were- like if you were in the US, you could get 1 UK case for every 2 or 3 US cases you ordered. However, for the GOT Inflextions, there was no mention of "International" cases in the original offering. Rittenhouse only acknowledged the fact that there were any after people noticed they changed the wording on the info sheet way after the original solicitation came out. PLus, only 1 distributor was offered these "International" cases.

quote:

Originally posted by ctacker:
Info here is slightly wrong about the character sketches. Hobby (domestic) set will still have its (7?) character sketches, International will have 4 different character sketches and their related Artifex metal cards.

Also I've heard a few different autograph variations (like Full Bleed version in Hobby, bordered version in International, etc.)

If you look on the Info page for GTS, it shows Character sketches in red which they state are "International" exclusives. Maybe they made a mistake on their info page, but since Rittenhouse will not acknowledge anything about the contents of it, I have to assume GTS has the correct info. We shall see.

This is what was posted about Star Trek. I never heard of this before


For Trek... RH did the “premium packs” once with Movies H&V. I personally liked that method because it gave the base set some actual real value and chase factor. The set was more expensive in general, but I liked the implementation. RH also did a normal pack release for both US and International markets on three sets (TOS Quotable, TNG Quotable, and 40th Anniversary). There was an exclusive case topper and one insert set difference between the versions.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
This is what was posted about Star Trek. I never heard of this before


For Trek... RH did the “premium packs” once with Movies H&V. I personally liked that method because it gave the base set some actual real value and chase factor. The set was more expensive in general, but I liked the implementation. RH also did a normal pack release for both US and International markets on three sets (TOS Quotable, TNG Quotable, and 40th Anniversary). There was an exclusive case topper and one insert set difference between the versions.

I don't remember the Quotable sets having US and UK versions, but I do know the 40th had them. On Ebay now there is a box of each. The US (which says North American Edition on the sticker on the box) has a production run of 6,500 boxes. The UK (which says United Kingdom Edition on the sticker on the box) is not showing the print run side of the sticker.

Premium pack products are a different story. Those were done for a few sets like the Trek set mentioned above as well as for Warehouse 13, NCIS, Spartacus, Bionic Collection and Falling Skies that I can think of off the top of my head.

quote:

Originally posted by David R:
This is what RA posted

There will be an International version of the product (primarily for China).

The hobby must be taking off in china then, sold a few of my GoT cards to china in the past couple of weeks for the very first time. Also only took 2 days to be delivered from the UK to china.

When I saw that post about China, I was wondering does RA have to alter any of its cards for that market ? I know that China has strict censorship laws. Are there any elements of any RA cards which might be objectionable, in terms of content ? Perhaps that is the International version.

I know that alot of major, popular American movies are edited for the Chinese market, to remove content which the government finds offensive to the regime.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
When I saw that post about China, I was wondering does RA have to alter any of its cards for that market ? I know that China has strict censorship laws. Are there any elements of any RA cards which might be objectionable, in terms of content ? Perhaps that is the International version.

I know that alot of major, popular American movies are edited for the Chinese market, to remove content which the government finds offensive to the regime.

I don't know but the card sets have always been much more family-friendly than the TV show.

I only look at products in terms of autograph cards, because that's what I'm most interested in collecting for myself. Now we all know that RA has a reserve of autograph cards in a few different designs that were signed in the past, sometimes years in the past, and they can trot them out as they want to seed in this season, or that season, or the next season's set for GoT. It doesn't even matter if the characters are long dead.

But what they can't change is the number of a certain design that was signed. If there was only 100 or 50 done, that's what they have and that's it. So if they advertise 400 cases with two autograph cards in a box and then decide to make 650 cases with two autograph cards in a box, they probably have enough signed cards in the wings to meet that ratio. However the odds of pulling an individual "scarce" autograph card limited to 50 or 100 copies, assuming equal distribution between the Hobby and International cases, have gone from dividing that same number of copies into 400 cases to into 650 cases.

So what you will wind up with, not even talking about other types of hits that might be exclusive to the International, is a dilution in the chances of pulling the higher value autographs. All the better signers always do fewer cards even on single autographs. The dual autographs will be certainly "scarce". These are the pulls that make it worth risking on a $160 box.

I'm not sure from reading this thread if that is a firm 250 extra cases or an estimate. RA doesn't seem to have that data on its website, but as this whole International edition just got dropped at the 11th hour, I don't know if they will disclose the number of cases or not. If it is that many, I would echo other members. Yes it's a business, but its a matter of trust when you post the information for the benefit of collectors and than change it. That was one of the big differences between RA and UD that made RA better. UD tells you almost nothing about their products in pre-release, RA gave you real data. At least they use to. I'm still hoping we won't see a large case increase because it goes to integrity, if nothing else.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I'm not sure from reading this thread if that is a firm 250 extra cases or an estimate. RA doesn't seem to have that data on its website, but as this whole International edition just got dropped at the 11th hour, I don't know if they will disclose the number of cases or not. If it is that many, I would echo other members. Yes it's a business, but its a matter of trust when you post the information for the benefit of collectors and than change it. That was one of the big differences between RA and UD that made RA better. UD tells you almost nothing about their products in pre-release, RA gave you real data. At least they use to. I'm still hoping we won't see a large case increase because it goes to integrity, if nothing else.

That number was derived from the 10 case incentive for "International" cases. The incentive set is limited to 25. 25 sets at 10 cases to get one set is a possible 250 cases made.

I have to say that while I understand the concerns with rare autograph ratios I am always happy when a non-sport manufacture is increasing print runs as it means there is increased demand.

400 cases is only 8 cases per US state.

I often wonder -- at what point is it no longer worth it for manufacturers to make non-sport cards? So personally I applaud the increased production.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
I have to say that while I understand the concerns with rare autograph ratios I am always happy when a non-sport manufacture is increasing print runs as it means there is increased demand.

400 cases is only 8 cases per US state.

I often wonder -- at what point is it no longer worth it for manufacturers to make non-sport cards? So personally I applaud the increased production.

I very much agree with your comment about how low production can make it unprofitable for card manufacturers. I think one of the reasons Breygent is not doing non-sport cards right now is because, despite making excellent products in my opinion, they went for niche titles produced in small numbers. Even when they did sell something out, how much could they make on 300 sets with hits?

I even agree with your premise that increased production should be applauded. More cards, more people can get them.

I do not agree with it on this product or products like it for one reason, cost. As I think I said previously, if this was coming out as a $75 box, increased production would be good. It's at SRP $160. It's being sold as a limited product. The collectors buying it, and I'm talking about collectors now, not dealers or distributors, do so knowing they are taking a chance on the value. They also do it thinking that whatever value they find will hold because the supply is low.

Now when that product suddenly jumps in its stated production, it is not a good thing for collectors that were willing to buy into it in the first place. Nor will it get more collectors interested, because the cost is still $160 SRP, even though the production has increased by 50% or better. If increased production reduced the box cost, then you would have an argument for saying it's a good thing. It won't. It will just produce longer odds at pulling the rare autograph cards and other higher value hits, which you acknowledge, and put more filler or average hits in the boxes.

So while I generally agree with your sentiments, this product was not manufactured in the vein of an average box/case and increasing production at the 11th hour and than claiming precedent because you did one or two other International sets that no one remembers, is not a good excuse for RA to change its published production numbers.

You are certainly more than welcome to your opinion.

My opinion is that if RA can make and sell more product that is awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
You are certainly more than welcome to your opinion.

My opinion is that if RA can make and sell more product that is awesome.

I love when a car dealership advertises a certain car for sale in the Sunday paper and when you go down there, that car doesn't exist but they will gladly sell you a more expensive car.

I also would love it if the Boy or Girl Scouts did a raffle to raise money promising only 1,000 tickets at $100 each for a brand new car- and then told you after the 1,000 tickets were sold that they printed up another 1,000 to sell since the first lot went so fast- but they are not offering two cars- just the original one.

Come on. Really.

The simple fact is they put out a sell sheet and took orders for a product based on those details. To change the specifics after the fact because they underestimated demand or got an offer from a big distributor is shady.

You can reason it all you want, but they advertised the product, took orders based on that advertisement and then changed it because someone waived a huge amount of money at them.

If 400 cases was too small to make money in the first place, they should have planned a larger print run from the start or not made it at all. To do what they did, in my mind, is just a result of greed and a lack of concern for the ultimate collector.

RA has now posted this:


This question has come up a few times, so I'll try to answer it here for all to see. There are certain differences between the two editions of Game of Thrones Inflexions, There are 400 cases of Hobby and 250 International (most of which is going to China). Some cards are exclusively in the Hobby edition and other cards exclusively in the International Edition. For example, the 7 character sketches that are shown on the website for the Hobby cases are exclusively in the Hobby cases (and not in the International cases). But with that said, we are inserting 4 different character sketches in the International version (and not in the Hobby cases). Same with the parallel artifex metal cards of those character sketches. There are other unique differences, including numbered parallels in each edition, rather than making parallels common to both (and thereby higher sequential numbers that would be deemed less valuable to most collectors). We will post more details to the website shortly. But I think this should help, in the meantime.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
RA has now posted this:


This question has come up a few times, so I'll try to answer it here for all to see. There are certain differences between the two editions of Game of Thrones Inflexions, There are 400 cases of Hobby and 250 International (most of which is going to China). Some cards are exclusively in the Hobby edition and other cards exclusively in the International Edition. For example, the 7 character sketches that are shown on the website for the Hobby cases are exclusively in the Hobby cases (and not in the International cases). But with that said, we are inserting 4 different character sketches in the International version (and not in the Hobby cases). Same with the parallel artifex metal cards of those character sketches. There are other unique differences, including numbered parallels in each edition, rather than making parallels common to both (and thereby higher sequential numbers that would be deemed less valuable to most collectors). We will post more details to the website shortly. But I think this should help, in the meantime.

See if you can get them to answer any of these questions:

1. Was there an "International" version planned from the beginning?
2. Why was there no mention of an "International" edition in the initial announcement of the product? It was not mentioned in the solicitation sent out to distributors/dealers/wholesalers.
3. Who was the "International" edition solicited to?
4. Are the odds for the inserts that are common to both US and "International" editions now worse with the addition of the extra 250 cases?
5. Why did it take so long for the "International" edition to be announced? Why did it just all of a sudden appear on a revised sell sheet?

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
RA has now posted this:


This question has come up a few times, so I'll try to answer it here for all to see. There are certain differences between the two editions of Game of Thrones Inflexions, There are 400 cases of Hobby and 250 International (most of which is going to China). Some cards are exclusively in the Hobby edition and other cards exclusively in the International Edition. For example, the 7 character sketches that are shown on the website for the Hobby cases are exclusively in the Hobby cases (and not in the International cases). But with that said, we are inserting 4 different character sketches in the International version (and not in the Hobby cases). Same with the parallel artifex metal cards of those character sketches. There are other unique differences, including numbered parallels in each edition, rather than making parallels common to both (and thereby higher sequential numbers that would be deemed less valuable to most collectors). We will post more details to the website shortly. But I think this should help, in the meantime.

It kind of begs other questions, besides those listed above. InfleXions will be the ninth GoT titled RA product to be released. China has ben around for a long time. They didn't need one before?

Also when cards are made specifically for other countries, it is fairly common for the text to be in the language of that country. When I was doing Magic the Gathering cards, I would come across the foreign editions and they would be written in Spanish, Italian, Chinese etc.

There is no indication that these are not English text cards. If they are, how are the common to both sets cards differentiated from each other? Does it say International edition?

He says most are going to China, so some are going elsewhere. Where?

If you want to get those cards exclusive to the International Edition, who do you get them from?

You know,questions like that. I'm kind of surprised that RA opened up this can of worms with all the experience they have. At the end of the day its a tempest in a teapot, but they should have gotten out ahead of it before people had to ask questions.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Also when cards are made specifically for other countries, it is fairly common for the text to be in the language of that country. When I was doing Magic the Gathering cards, I would come across the foreign editions and they would be written in Spanish, Italian, Chinese etc.

Significantly more common in gaming cards than in trading cards, I'd have said.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ravenheart,

quote:

Originally posted by Neilsy:
The hobby must be taking off in china then

More likely it's to make counterfeiting less attractive...

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:

quote:

Originally posted by Neilsy:
The hobby must be taking off in china then

More likely it's to make counterfeiting less attractive...

Yes, I use to look for models and model kits online and it's the same thing. China steals intellectual property and copyrighted physical property. They have sanctioned factories that produce everything from artwork to designer bags to toys.

And they generally do a good job of it too. To the point that it takes an expert eye to tell sometimes. So unfortunately anything you order as a name item shipping from China is suspect. Not to mention the stuff you pick up without knowing the origin.

On topic, I have heard that orders of GoT InfleXions in the US have been severely allocated. Especially large orders. Perhaps the increased interest has to do with all the publicity the final season has been generating. Maybe we have fans that finally discovered the cards. I don't know, but I don't recall Valyrian Steel seeming to have such demand.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

If you look on ebay, you will see MANY cards that are Marvel, Disney, Walking Dead, Game of Throne, etc., pretty much any current hot movie or TV property related, from many sellers based in China, that are no doubt homemade, and not the least bit legit.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

It kind of begs other questions, besides those listed above. InfleXions will be the ninth GoT titled RA product to be released. China has ben around for a long time. They didn't need one before?

Awesome Raven.
That's a good one.
Made me smile.

I guess we will see when there is no season 8 "International" product announced.

What will they say then- the China market died all of a sudden right after the Inflexions release.

What a joke.