Just had a look at the checklist file.

Tobias Menzies has signed two different cards again, one as Frank and one as Jack.

Catriona Balfe's card is numbered CB1 (all other signers except Menzies don't have a number), which suggests to me there is a CB2 card that she either didn't return in time, or CZ are intentionally holding back for that other forthcoming set they've got.

Either way, yet more engineered rarity.

So far three Balfe autographs have turned up at $1500, $1800, and $2000 with no takers. Looks like my estimate of $500 may be a tad bit off. But then again sometimes there's a big difference between pipe-dreaming asking prices and what the first one actually SELLS for.

… And now another one pops up for $1500. Still no sales though. Only 46 of them remain unclaimed.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenheart:
Catriona Balfe's card is numbered CB1 (all other signers except Menzies don't have a number), which suggests to me there is a CB2 card that she either didn't return in time, or CZ are intentionally holding back for that other forthcoming set they've got.

Either way, yet more engineered rarity.

All modern cards are engineered rarity to some extent.

I was told CZE originally intended to have Cait sign both cards. But when the negotiated price came around it was decided to just do the one for budgetary reasons. CB2 existed, but was never signed I was told. What happened to them I have no knowledge of.

Ed

Madness! It's making the Mulder and Scully dual from the recent X Files set look cheap, and I know which one I would prefer. I like Outlander and most of the actors but a price like that!? It will be interesting about any actual sales made.
At the moment a lot of the other cards are at daft prices too, especially the costume cards.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
CB2 existed, but was never signed I was told. What happened to them I have no knowledge of.

Ed

Well if past history is any indicator of future events, at some unknown point, some unknown number of unsigned CB2s will surface, from some unknown source, and wind up in the same known places, for as much as they can get.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
I was told CZE originally intended to have Cait sign both cards. But when the negotiated price came around it was decided to just do the one for budgetary reasons. CB2 existed, but was never signed I was told.

Thanks for that info, Ed. That definitely changes how much I'd be willing to spend for one of her Season 3 autographs, knowing now that it may well be the only time she ever signs an Outlander card. But still, I can't and won't go anywhere near the prices sellers are looking for now. If that means I never get one then so be it. But I have a feeling in the future they will drop to a price I'm comfortable with, especially once the show is done and interest starts to wane. That's if they're not all tucked away into private collections by then.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:
. . .knowing now that it may well be the only time she ever signs an Outlander card. But still, I can't and won't go anywhere near the prices sellers are looking for now. If that means I never get one then so be it. But I have a feeling in the future they will drop to a price I'm comfortable with, especially once the show is done and interest starts to wane. That's if they're not all tucked away into private collections by then.

The sellers are testing the water, 2 of those Balfes have Best Offer options. Once one sells, it will become the going rate for all of them, buy no one wants to cut lower first. They will wait a few days and field offers, then let it go for highest over $1000, I'm guessing it will be in that $1300 - $1400 range just because Outlander cards have consistently over performed and people can't control themselves for long.

At least she put down a fairly reasonable looking autograph, so you can be thankful for that. Will the autograph ever appreciate higher than what is paid now? That's a different issue with too many unknowns. If the show lasts for several years? If she never signs again? If as an actress she goes on to something bigger? If she doesn't hit every Con she can find and every private signing she can land in the next 10 years? Maybe, but it's tough to buy thinking you'll make money some day. Private collections indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
I was told CZE originally intended to have Cait sign both cards. But when the negotiated price came around it was decided to just do the one for budgetary reasons. CB2 existed, but was never signed I was told. What happened to them I have no knowledge of.

Ed

So, I heard a little different story about the Catriona autos that I thought I should share.

I was told that the negotiations between Cryptozoic and Catriona never ended in an agreement for her to sign cards in the traditional way. For some reason, it just never happened- maybe it wasn't enough money. maybe she didn't have enough time or interest to sign them or maybe it was a manager of hers who thought it wasn't worth even asking her if she would do it. I don't know what happened.

I do know that the cards that are in the product were obtained through the efforts of George Nadeau (RIP) from Cryptozoic. He went to two different shows Catriona was signing at and bought tickets (at her asking rate) and had her sign the CB1's. George was always doing anything and everything he could for the fans/collectors. He was the driving force behind the Catriona auto in season 3.

Now, what happened to CB2- I don't know either. Maybe it became too expensive to send George to get a handful of autos at market price. Maybe his untimely passing had something to do with it also. I am not sure. But through his efforts, we have CB1.

As for pricing on the secondary market- we shall see.
Will she ever sign again- who knows.
Will the show last another few years- who knows.
Will the show remain as popular as it is now- who knows.
Will she ever do anything other than this- who knows.

I liken it to Emilia Clarke in Game of Thrones. Emilia signed cards for 2 seasons- 300 to 500 cards in season 1 and 200 to 300 cards in season 2. Her cards right now are going for crazy prices as the show is super popular, she plays a great character, she didn't sign a ton of cards and the cards have a wide collector base.

Will Catriona's cards follow suit- time will tell.

But thanks to the efforts of George, we are at least talking about the card instead of asking how come we don't have one.

Mike.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cubby5454,

That's a great story and it kind of enhances these cards to think that George Nadeua made such an effort to secure what is an absolutely necessary autograph for this set. I never met the man, but I have only read terrific things from people who knew him.

Thanks for that information. George was a lovely man and a big outlander fan. It doesn't surprise me to hear that he had gone to such lengths. I will miss him at the Philly show.

George went above and beyond what anyone can expect from a card company in trying to get something signed for a product.

We don't know for sure if it's Balfe's own decision or a 'helpful' manager/agent/ assistant making the decision for her on the cards, but the only impression it gives to us, mere peasant collectors, is of an actor who is a bit high maintenance and in the diva zone.
Exactly how long would it take to sign a couple of hundred cards? 50 a day would be easy.
I know how things go, though, it's just the usual wondering about why actors decide to sign for things or not and that question of self-worth.

As to Outlander as a series: so far they've made one season of the show for each book. There are currently 8 books and a couple of novella side stories, with #9 in the works. The material is there. Having just got 200 pages into book 5(another 1200+ pages to go!! A strict editor was badly needed!) it just depends whether they want to tie it off at some point, as time travelling and inherited time travel means the stories are technically unending and with an expanding character base too.
Of course ratings and money will probably decide it.

Hard to know what is happening to the Balfe autograph cards going strictly by eBay. At one point 5 cards were up with BINs and offers. Right now 3 are up with BINs only. There are no noted sales on that card, so were the other 2 sold privately or just waiting to relist? The lowest asking price was once at $1100 for a slightly streaky signature. The cards up now are in the range of $1300 - $1800.

I'm rather surprised at the restraint of Outlander collectors. I would have thought that at least a couple of these would have been jumped on very early, even at peak prices, because it is the most important Outlander autograph to date and there are only 50 made, probably fewer in packs. Can't say if breakers had pre-orders on it that we are not seeing, but until we have some recorded sales there can't be any guide pricing.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Hard to know what is happening to the Balfe autograph cards going strictly by eBay. At one point 5 cards were up with BINs and offers. Right now 3 are up with BINs only. There are no noted sales on that card, so were the other 2 sold privately or just waiting to relist? The lowest asking price was once at $1100 for a slightly streaky signature. The cards up now are in the range of $1300 - $1800.

I'm rather surprised at the restraint of Outlander collectors. I would have thought that at least a couple of these would have been jumped on very early, even at peak prices, because it is the most important Outlander autograph to date and there are only 50 made, probably fewer in packs. Can't say if breakers had pre-orders on it that we are not seeing, but until we have some recorded sales there can't be any guide pricing.

I think one sold privately on another forum for $750 - and that seller tried for a few days to get $900 to no avail. Of course there aren't as many people seeing it on a forum as there would be on eBay. But still, I'm going with $750 as the base value - for now at least.

I think economics the world over are a little uncertain, and only a small fraction of people are prepared to pay out those sort of prices. The ones that will buy are probably sitting on their hands waiting for the prices to lower even more.

I'll throw another idea out there. For me, personally, I love Outlander but I don't always like 'Claire'. I often find her petty, obnoxious and irritating(among other choice words). Yeah, I know she's the main character, but it's the other characters I love about the show and the settings/history, and how they've twisted it. I find her even more irritating and quite prejudice and a tad thick at times in the books. Of course Jamie is a favourite, but I also prefer John Grey, and even Brianna to Claire. It's probably why John got his own novella stories too, as others really liked him.

That's the thing pulling me up to think sensibly and that I wouldn't even think of spending $750 on the card. The rarity is more off-putting as you know it's out of your league before you even start.
So I'll take my Sam Heughan from Season 1 and be quite content. I've not been a completist collector for few years now. Some things just aren't meant to be...certainly aren't worth going beyond budget.

I was the same with Buffy, I never really liked the Buffy character, but loved some of the other characters around her.
If I got really desperate to have a Balfe autograph I think I'd take one of the images of the card and print out my own trading card of it. It's not the real thing...but as close as most of us will get.

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:


I'll throw another idea out there. For me, personally, I love Outlander but I don't always like 'Claire'. I often find her petty, obnoxious and irritating(among other choice words). Yeah, I know she's the main character, but it's the other characters I love about the show and the settings/history, and how they've twisted it. I find her even more irritating and quite prejudice and a tad thick at times in the books.

I totally agree. If I got her in my boxes rather than the 2 $15 autos I would have been pleased, but I'm not fond of her character enough to spend silly money on her card

If I had found her in my box, I think I would have sold it on, to fund getting other cards in the set.
In the S1 set I was lucky enough(for a change ) to get the rarest costume card of Claire with only about 30 of them made. I thought about it for a while but sold it for £200. I still don't regret that.
From the start with Outlander I've only collected the characters I like with a couple of actors I like more than the characters. Not buying more than one of a signer too keeps the cost down.
The inserts are always really nice and being able to complete most of them with one box is satisfying too.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:...
At least she put down a fairly reasonable looking autograph, so you can be thankful for that. Will the autograph ever appreciate higher than what is paid now? That's a different issue with too many unknowns. If the show lasts for several years? If she never signs again? If as an actress she goes on to something bigger? ...

People are paying for the 'official' card, not necessarily the autograph. For example if you want an autograph card from character actor 'Tobias Menzies' you can pick one of his James Bond or Games of Thrones cards for less than $10, far less than for the Outlander card. Maybe the next thing Caitriona Balfe does merits a $20 autograph card, that's showbusiness!

quote:

Originally posted by WOMBLE:

People are paying for the 'official' card, not necessarily the autograph.

yes this is often the case. I shall quote a very nice Trek collector who once said " I collect cards not autographs ".

quote:

Originally posted by WOMBLE:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:...
At least she put down a fairly reasonable looking autograph, so you can be thankful for that. Will the autograph ever appreciate higher than what is paid now? That's a different issue with too many unknowns. If the show lasts for several years? If she never signs again? If as an actress she goes on to something bigger? ...

People are paying for the 'official' card, not necessarily the autograph. For example if you want an autograph card from character actor 'Tobias Menzies' you can pick one of his James Bond or Games of Thrones cards for less than $10, far less than for the Outlander card. Maybe the next thing Caitriona Balfe does merits a $20 autograph card, that's showbusiness!

There has always been that divide between autograph collectors and card collectors that has not been entirely bridged by the emergence of the certified autograph card. At one time "hobby law" dictated that an autograph on a card was regarded as a damage and took away all the card's value, leaving only the perceived value of the autograph. That's why higher valued cards, such as rookies, were never used for signing.

That's all changed since the certified autograph card became not just the premium hit in a card product, but the expected, guaranteed hit in everything but sketch only issues. So we come at this from opposite positions. I collect autographs first and cards second. You seem to regard the card first and autograph second. The funny thing is that we arrive at the exact same conclusion. I fully agree that if you want the signature you should get it on the cheapest possible card. It may well be in a secondary role/character. It may be a generic card like in Americana or Pop Century.

That's fine for me. I only demand two things. That it is absolutely certified and that it is a good display example of the "money signature". In other words, it can be a bad autograph if that's how the person signs, but it can't be a slop autograph that has no resemblance to a known sample. I also prefer on-card, but that may not be an option.

Where I would say you are overstating it is with "people are paying for the official card, not necessarily the autograph". In the case of certified autograph cards they are most certainly paying for the autograph, no question about it. I understand your point, that its part of completing the set and that's why Outlander collectors want it. But it is her autograph that makes it worth whatever high amount it eventually settles on. If not that, then a card maker could print-run in 50 card series for every plain unadorned card and it would just be the artificial rarity of the "official" card. Of course that wouldn't work for very long.

So you can say they are paying for the "official" card, but you can't separate that from the Balfre autograph. Or from the idea that if her autograph is crisper, or is more attractive, or is better placed on certain copies, that those cards won't sell for more money. What you are paying for is the guarantee of authenticity of that signature and the licensed material it's written on. The autograph is absolutely essential to provide the value and the harder it is to get that signature, or the rarer the signer is perceived to be anywhere, or the higher the demand for that celebrity, the more value is added, at least until things change.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,